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Christianity: Growth or Demise?


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#26 simplicity155

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:39 AM

For the most literal interpretations, look up Christian Scientists, or faith healers.


obviously there is more than one denomination of the christianity faith, if you only want to look at the bad one you are just pointing the finger at certain groups and then judging them as a whole

#27 Sweeney

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:09 AM

obviously there is more than one denomination of the christianity faith, if you only want to look at the bad one you are just pointing the finger at certain groups and then judging them as a whole

Firstly, you didn't specify the Christian faith in your post.
However, given the topic, it's not unreasonable to assume that's what you meant, so granted that caveat; welcome to the No True Scotsman fallacy.

#28 simplicity155

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 03:12 AM

all you do is put people down and think that you are always right.
yes i didnt state any specific denomiation but all you do is pick the bad out from a collective, obviously there will always be some bad. not everything can be good

and about the topic you just pick two that dont fit the category and then base your opinion on that
its kinda like saying if a country is stupid and then basing that opinion on two people in that country

#29 mjcm

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 04:25 AM

Religion just gets in the way of politics.


yes, it sometimes does. But even the constitution acknowledges the moral influence brings to politics. But right now, it was plainly one sided. All it did is intervened with politics. :)

machiavelli's "the prince" discussed that religion is merely a tool for state domination, other than that, when people become too attached to it, it brings demise. He says that's why the roman empire fell. :)

#30 Sweeney

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 10:53 PM

all you do is put people down and think that you are always right.
yes i didnt state any specific denomiation but all you do is pick the bad out from a collective, obviously there will always be some bad. not everything can be good

and about the topic you just pick two that dont fit the category and then base your opinion on that
its kinda like saying if a country is stupid and then basing that opinion on two people in that country

You said that don't see how faith can cause demise. I gave you two explicit examples.
Your statement, and your belief, was factually incorrect.

Nowhere in my sentence did I imply that Christian Scientists, nor faith healers, were representative of all Christianity.

So in this particular instance, I was wholly, objectively right. I suggest you deal with it, and move on.

#31 luvsmyncis

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 06:13 AM

obviously there is more than one denomination of the christianity faith, if you only want to look at the bad one you are just pointing the finger at certain groups and then judging them as a whole

Of course there are millions of religious charities that give shelter to homeless people or put food on the tables of starving families or fix deformities in kids that live in Indonesia, who preach love and acceptance (except for homos, they're icky!!), but these things are overshadowed by molesting priests and super rich Christian fundamentalists who cheat on their wives. The unspeakable crimes and bad judgment of leaders in the church allow us to judge the whole. So it's more like saying "the United States of America is filled with ignorant assholes" and pointing at Congress. Which is fair, I think.

The problem with Christianity, and religion in general is no matter how hard people follow and stick whatever their traditions and beliefs are and no matter how superior they think they are to everyone else (which always cracks me up because faith should humble you), they will always be dirty, horny, mean spirited animals filled with uncontrollable rage, senseless jealousy, and bitter hatred.

Not me, though. I should totally change my avatar to Mother Teresa or some shit.
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all you do is put people down and think that you are always right.


Well, he actually is right most of the time. Especially about Juupon. Just to clarify, she could claim any religion and still be a moron. Just so you don't all point your accusing fingers at Jesus for this one.

#32 Tia

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:06 AM

As long as it is not an extremist (just like any other religion), I believe it's for growth.
Harper Lee mentioned in her novel to kill a mockingbird that "sometimes the bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whiskey bottle in the hand of oh your father." and about "foot-washing baptists" and I agree with the message she is trying to convey.

#33 Xwee

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:34 AM

Somehow we've went from talking about the religion in general to thinking about individuals that follow that faith. In all honesty, I think we should look at the religion itself.

Though there are a few benefits, such as it teaches us to love and to forgive, there are many restrictions that can be interpreted multiple ways and thus in effect make it so that every person is worshiping the devil in some way due to some hobby, interest, or behavior. If every advice from the bible, starting at the first and going till the end, were to be taken out and made a list of, I am willing to bet that you will find multiple contradictions as well as several that can be interpreted in more ways than one. Then, if you were to take and study them closely (while interpreting each so that they don't end up contradictory) you will most likely find that you are a MAJOR sinner and there is no hope whatsoever for you. The only way you would be able to KEEP from sinning, is to live in a little white room and even then you might still be sinning because you are not preaching about the "Glorious word of God".

Christianity also has the benefit of being the first ORGANIZED religion, thus making it somewhat easier to follow and understand. It's simple, and takes less effort to win the approval of a diety, where as before that it took a LOT more effort and was more difficult to follow.

#34 luvsmyncis

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:50 AM

Somehow we've went from talking about the religion in general to thinking about individuals that follow that faith. In all honesty, I think we should look at the religion itself.


A religion is NOTHING without the believers. Just some story about some guy in sandals and a beard. It's important to look at Christians and openly judge them, just as they judge the people who don't believe exactly as they do.

Christianity also has the benefit of being the first ORGANIZED religion, thus making it somewhat easier to follow and understand. It's simple, and takes less effort to win the approval of a diety, where as before that it took a LOT more effort and was more difficult to follow.


What is this last sentence? Is Hinduism 'hard to follow' because of the elephant heads and many arms? Are Muslims disorganized? Don't they all face the same direction when they pray? That sounds pretty organized to me. Is it simpler to understand that Jesus is God the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit, all in one? That his mother was impregnated by immaculate conception? That three days after his death he rose from the grave, said hi to all his buddies, and then ascended into heaven where he is seated on the right hand of God? That his pal Peter mans the pearly gates and his betrayer Judas burns in the everlasting fires of hell?

#35 Xwee

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:28 AM

What is this last sentence? Is Hinduism 'hard to follow' because of the elephant heads and many arms? Are Muslims disorganized? Don't they all face the same direction when they pray? That sounds pretty organized to me. Is it simpler to understand that Jesus is God the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit, all in one? That his mother was impregnated by immaculate conception? That three days after his death he rose from the grave, said hi to all his buddies, and then ascended into heaven where he is seated on the right hand of God? That his pal Peter mans the pearly gates and his betrayer Judas burns in the everlasting fires of hell?


I was more referring to the pagan religions, where you sacrificed crops and such to the gods, as well as had to keep up with who was what, who did what, and a lot of other such-like. The oldest religion that I know of, worshiped the god/goddess of sun, sea, earth, storms, lust, harvest, childbirth, death, and the list goes ON. Each one having their own familiar, preference in scent/foods, favorite colors, ways of worship, etc.

#36 Sweeney

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:50 PM

Christianity also has the benefit of being the first ORGANIZED religion, thus making it somewhat easier to follow and understand. It's simple, and takes less effort to win the approval of a diety, where as before that it took a LOT more effort and was more difficult to follow.

Jesus was a Jew.

#37 Maloo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:05 PM

I was more referring to the pagan religions, where you sacrificed crops and such to the gods, as well as had to keep up with who was what, who did what, and a lot of other such-like. The oldest religion that I know of, worshiped the god/goddess of sun, sea, earth, storms, lust, harvest, childbirth, death, and the list goes ON. Each one having their own familiar, preference in scent/foods, favorite colors, ways of worship, etc.


It also happens with christianity, IMO.In catholicism there are just too many saints to count..
Not that saints and gods are the same thing, but they're still worshiped and all that.
I'm atheist, and saints for me are just a good excuse for holidays :F

#38 Xwee

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:10 PM

Jesus was a Jew.


Yeah, but sadly some people doesn't realize this and puts him on a pedestal as a god or the son of a god.. :/

#39 dratini

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 06:04 AM

What even is Christianity nowadays? The scope of different beliefs amongst those who consider themselves Christian is massive. You've got the hardcore extremists, and then you've got a billion tiers underneath, each occupied by a number of Christians holding different beliefs to every other Christian on every other tier. The only thing that Christians have in common is that they supposedly follow the Bible, but the Bible is entirely open to personal interpretation, and I think that is what makes Christianity so ideal for some people. Jesus Christ is a vice that they can adopt and mess around with to suit their mental weaknesses (and strengths). That is all religion is, really. A vice.

I have no problem with people who dedicate themselves to their faith; it is only when they inflict it upon others who have not welcomed it that it becomes a real issue to me. Each to their own. If it were a private affair, religion would not be a problem at all - but unfortunately, a lot of people seem to love spewing their faith-vomit everywhere, and so it is made into a public affair. It is likely that religion, Christianity included, will be our demise - because humans, as a race, as a whole, will never learn to keep personal things personal. There will always be that one hate-filled clusterfuck whose only desire is to kill those who act against his religion, or that single self-centered berk who wants everyone to jump on their bandwagon of faith.

#40 luvsmyncis

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:10 AM

Yeah, but sadly some people doesn't realize this and puts him on a pedestal as a god or the son of a god.. :/


Those people are called Christians.

#41 Xwee

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:39 PM

Those people are called Christians.


LOL punk, I know the proper term. I'm sorry if my opinions are offending anyone, but I've went to five different churches before I decided to be a wiccan, not only did i disagree with a lot of what the preachers taught, but they continuously contradicted eachother. Not by interpretation, but each time one person read a passage, another church later read a passage that completely contradicted it. Then each preacher and most church-goers i met were complete and utter hypocrites. After reading through some of the bible myself I realized it wasn't the religion for me, though it seems simple from a brief over look in detail it has a lot of restrictions that basically make an Amish-man/woman look like a filthy sinner. (keep in mind, I haven't even looked at christianity in 10 years.. though I remember these facts, i won't be able to give examples without reading again, and I haven't owned a bible in 7 years XD)

#42 luvsmyncis

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 08:38 PM

Posted Image

I think you lost me somewhere.
You said...
Yeah, but sadly some people doesn't realize this (in response to "Jesus was a Jew") and puts him on a pedestal as a god or the son of a god..
Why shouldn't they do that? Most people who believe in Christ (Christians) understand perfectly well that he was Jewish. Were you saying that he shouldn't be on that pedestal because he was Jewish?
According to Christian faith, Jesus IS the son of God, and he is also God Himself. That's why he's on the pedestal. He's on a super huge one on some mountain in Brazil.
Posted Image
Sure hope His healing power can cure vertigo.

#43 Xwee

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 09:24 PM

i was refering to the fact that I myself think he was just a very generous/helpful man (like buddah) but was placed as a type of god (like herculez for example) and don't think he really was, just exagerations through story telling. You know, kind of like a "fish tale" I realize some believe he really is the son of god or god himself (like in some fucked up way) but I myself do not see him as such.

#44 frostz

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 07:09 AM

personally..i think that the christian bible has been retranslated as well as "edited" for the political reasons of the church so many times that its just not worth reading anymore.

Edited by frostz, 15 May 2011 - 07:23 AM.


#45 JayScorpio

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 08:29 PM

personally..i think that the christian bible has been retranslated as well as "edited" for the political reasons of the church so many times that its just not worth reading anymore.


I agree completely. And in my opinion, Christians are EXTREMELY hypocritical.

#46 Ladida

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 08:38 PM

I think all religious people are hypocritical. Except the greedy Hindus who worship Mother Laxmi, because they want money and will damn well pray for it xD I figure they think if fewer people are praying, the more money they'll get :p But Hindus are also huge hypocrites in many other respects. So yes, all hypocrites.

#47 Abradix

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 12:12 AM

I think the answer was said in the first few posts. Something about judging religion as a whole based just on major religion is like judging a country based on two assholes.

I believe in spirtuality, and the basic message of most religion which is just to love each other more than you love yourself.

Thread was a fun read so far though.

Edited by Abradix, 16 May 2011 - 12:21 AM.


#48 frostz

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 03:55 AM

I agree completely. And in my opinion, Christians are EXTREMELY hypocritical.


That and most of them never think for themselves in terms of the interpretation of biblical texts and just believe whatever it is the pastor or w/e says.

#49 Maloo

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:02 PM

Posted Image

I think you lost me somewhere.
You said...
Yeah, but sadly some people doesn't realize this (in response to "Jesus was a Jew") and puts him on a pedestal as a god or the son of a god..
Why shouldn't they do that? Most people who believe in Christ (Christians) understand perfectly well that he was Jewish. Were you saying that he shouldn't be on that pedestal because he was Jewish?
According to Christian faith, Jesus IS the son of God, and he is also God Himself. That's why he's on the pedestal. He's on a super huge one on some mountain in Brazil.
Posted Image
Sure hope His healing power can cure vertigo.


LOL


Even though I don't believe in God, the Christ the Redeemer(name of the statue) is really beautiful!It is one of the New Seven Wonders of the World :D
And it's even bigger live >.<

Spoiler


#50 Xwee

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:00 PM

LOL


Even though I don't believe in God, the Christ the Redeemer(name of the statue) is really beautiful!It is one of the New Seven Wonders of the World :D
And it's even bigger live >.<

Spoiler


if it's an addition to the seven wonders.. shouldn't they be renamed to the eight wonders?

(lol)


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