25 replies to this topic

[Georgina]

OK this is something I have been thinking about for a while now, and I'm still not 100% sure I can decide on a opinion.

The Unemployed;
Not talking about those who are actively seeking work, I'm talking about those who have no job, and don't have any intentions of getting a job, and plod on quite happily living on benefits etc etc.


Now my initial thought is that they are downright idle and need to sort their life out instead of wasting tax payers money. I wonder how they can be happy living on so little, and not having the luxuries in life.
After some thought though it struck me, maybe they have the right idea?

I mean, life is too short!


Sure, these people, they wont have the option to go on holidays, have very nice homes, spend money on going out to places etc etc but really, with the lack of time the normal hard working person has, is it really worth it?

You wake up in the mornings, rush to work, work for 7/8 hours each day, travel home, even with a 40 hour a week job with commuting etc you will usually be looking at 50+ hours each week consumed by your working life. And then when you do get home you usually only have time for the important things like chores to do, house work, food shopping etc etc and then your so tiered from work your asleep by 10 pm!

If you have no job think of the time you can use!

For those lucky enough to have family around them then why not enjoy all the time you can before its too late?
These people have the opportunity to be with family and friends as much as they want, they can still afford to live in a house, pay most the bills and generally live a normal enough life.

I feel for my brother, who has a 2 year old, my niece, and he works so damn hard he only really sees her for an hour in the evenings, and the odd day off now and again every 10 days. Kids grow up so fast, by the time hes reached a level in his career that allows him to earn enough money to take the time off he would like then she most likely will be 16+.

My father for example, hes 70, hes healthy, but realistically, how much longer will he be alive? Do I want to be seeing him every few days for half hour or so?

I don't know if this will sound like a stupid question to most of you anyway,

I'm just thinking outloud really, but it's just something I have been in a quandary about and would be interesting to see others points of view.

[rhexis07]

Interesting topic. I'm the kind of person who also wants to believe that life is short, and we should enjoy it while we can.

I'm from Singapore. I don't know how the Government System is for your country, but here in Singapore, the poor people are really, really poor, and are often seen collecting cupboard boxes and recycled cans to earn that extra few dollars a day. These people tend to be the elderly.

And here in Singapore, the retirement age is 68, which is honestly crazy, because by that time, we'll probably be too old to enjoy all the thrills and spills. The living cost is high and even a house cost a crazy amount. So in Singapore, in order to enjoy life, we have to work, otherwise we can just rot our life away. Not to mention that right now, looking for jobs are difficult as well. Unless of course we are born with a silver spoon.

I think the problem with working long hours didn't really exist in the past, but because of the growing technology, we are now able to bring our work home, and working hours tend to be extended to more than the usual 8 hours a day, sometimes even stretching all the way to weekend. When I think about my future with my SO, I'm quite sadden because the growing living cost in Singapore would mean both of us would have to work in order to pay off house loans, car loans and all, and would have to put our child in Childcare Centres while we are working. While we would be able to spend time with them in the evening after work, but we lose out on the opportunity to play with them through the day because we have to make a living for a better future for the family.

In the past, having a sole breadwinner in the family would be sufficient. I would come home to see my Mum greeting me and bringing me out for lunch, and then cooking dinner while I watch the TV. But now, it seems highly unlikely to live that sort of life.

Therefore, I conclude that to even enjoy life, at least here at where I live, unemployment is a no go.

I think I strayed a little off topic and didn't answer your questions properly. My brain is a little fried since I've been studying for the past 8 hours for an exam that's extremely difficult, but I hope I shared with you a little something.

EDIT: Oh and +rep for an interesting topic. I'm beat from all the studying.

Edited by rhexis07, 12 May 2011 - 06:20 AM.

[wtfints71]

Yea. In Singapore, you can't be unemployed. Unemployed means zero income.

[rhexis07]

wtfints71, on 12 May 2011 - 06:18 AM, said:

Yea. In Singapore, you can't be unemployed. Unemployed means zero income.

How did you know that?! If you're from overseas, then it really saddens me because even someone from other country knows that the living cost in Singapore is crazy..

[wtfints71]

Yea. I'm from Singapore. PAP sucks.

[zandra]

rhexis07, on 12 May 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

Interesting topic. I'm the kind of person who also wants to believe that life is short, and we should enjoy it while we can.

I'm from Singapore. I don't know how the Government System is for your country, but here in Singapore, the poor people are really, really poor, and are often seen collecting cupboard boxes and recycled cans to earn that extra few dollars a day. These people tend to be the elderly.

And here in Singapore, the retirement age is 68, which is honestly crazy, because by that time, we'll probably be too old to enjoy all the thrills and spills. The living cost is high and even a house cost a crazy amount. So in Singapore, in order to enjoy life, we have to work, otherwise we can just rot our life away. Not to mention that right now, looking for jobs are difficult as well. Unless of course we are born with a silver spoon.

I think the problem with working long hours didn't really exist in the past, but because of the growing technology, we are now able to bring our work home, and working hours tend to be extended to more than the usual 8 hours a day, sometimes even stretching all the way to weekend. When I think about my future with my SO, I'm quite sadden because the growing living cost in Singapore would mean both of us would have to work in order to pay off house loans, car loans and all, and would have to put our child in Childcare Centres while we are working. While we would be able to spend time with them in the evening after work, but we lose out on the opportunity to play with them through the day because we have to make a living for a better future for the family.

In the past, having a sole breadwinner in the family would be sufficient. I would come home to see my Mum greeting me and bringing me out for lunch, and then cooking dinner while I watch the TV. But now, it seems highly unlikely to live that sort of life.

Therefore, I conclude that to even enjoy life, at least here at where I live, unemployment is a no go.

I think I strayed a little off topic and didn't answer your questions properly. My brain is a little fried since I've been studying for the past 8 hours for an exam that's extremely difficult, but I hope I shared with you a little something.

EDIT: Oh and +rep for an interesting topic. I'm beat from all the studying.

hey, i am from singapore too.
yeah the government is quite harsh on unemployed. the government provide just enough assistance to prevent people from starving. but anything more you will have to work for it, it kinds of prevent free loaders who can just scrimp,save and never need to work in their entire life. the retirement age has been increase to 68 because in a bad way, we are living too long. and with that aging population. its more or less work till you die. but they dont have much of a choice either. it is either that or raising income tax to ridiculous levels that we can see in most welfare countries

wtfints71, on 12 May 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

Yea. I'm from Singapore. PAP sucks.

i am not against pap in the economy management factor. they did a good job keeping unemployment rate low. just dont like the way they deal with opposition and people against them.

[rhexis07]

zandra, on 12 May 2011 - 06:47 AM, said:

hey, i am from singapore too. yeah the government is quite harsh on unemployed. the government provide just enough assistance to prevent people from starving. but anything more you will have to work for it, it kinds of prevent free loaders who can just scrimp,save and never need to work in their entire life. the retirement age has been increase to 68 because in a bad way, we are living too long. and with that aging population. its more or less work till you die. but they dont have much of a choice either. it is either that or raising income tax to ridiculous levels that we can see in most welfare countries

Have they ever really thought about why is it that the aging population never gets solved. How on earth do they expect families to give birth to 3-4 child and raise them without problem when every cost is increasing, but job wages remains unchanged and still as difficult to find as always. It's ridiculous. The only reason why in the future, I will stick to 1, or at most 2 child, is because it will be an uphill task to raise 3 kids.

EDIT: Oh wow, 3 Singaporeans in one topic. That's quite amazing! Never thought I would see so many fellow countrymen on this kind of sites.

Anyway, Zandra, Singapore government ever only cares about the growth of their pocket, and not it's citizen.

And I think we better end our discussion soon before we stray too far off topic and make this a Singapore discussion.

Edited by rhexis07, 12 May 2011 - 06:57 AM.

[punkrockbigmouth]

I would love to sit at home and do nothing for the rest of my life. But I am not the only person who depends on my income.

Georgina, on 12 May 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

Now my initial thought is that they are downright idle and need to sort their life out instead of wasting tax payers money. I wonder how they can be happy living on so little, and not having the luxuries in life.

Not having the luxuries in life? In America, poor people on Medicaid and Food Stamps don't have to pay for medicine or food. Think of how much money you'd save if you got those things for free. Now go spend that money on an iphone or on a $150 pair of Nikes for your fucking hoodrat kid on ADD meds. It's the American dream realized. If I were smart, I would end the suffering of dealing with morons every day.... get myself fired squirt out a kid (all the other Mexican girls do it repeatedly! Why can't I?!) and let Uncle Sam support me for the rest of my life.

It is a fucking joke. I'm working 40 hours a week in a high stress level job, constantly being berated by patients who pay pennies for their medications for their kid's inhaler which he needs because he has so much fat clogging up his windpipe, and watching them charge Oreos and Cheetos on their welfare card. And when I pick up my meds, I gasp at the $70 co-pay I have to dish out, nevermind the fucking $50 my health insurance takes out of my paycheck every two weeks, and then, exhausted and lamenting for humanity, I come home to another dinner of beans and rice. (To be fair, I also play Neopets on my cable internet, or bake brownies in the fake bakery I have in an app on my iphone. But I earned the money, so kiss my ass.)

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE. Oooohhhh gawd.... too... much... RAGE...


What ever happened to survival of the fittest? Now, if you're crippled or a certified moron, you just get money handed to you.
In my opinion, you shouldn't be rewarded for contributing nothing to society. I understand there are times of hardship for everyone, and I'm all for temporary welfare. But to be unemployed for 20 years because your knee hurts whenever it rains and to get PAID for it... that's ridiculous.

[tak1968]

I have been unemployed for basically 15 years.

When i was married, the only fortunate things that came of it was having my 2 boys, and having their father work a well enough job that it was ok for me to stay home and raise them. I wouldnt have it any other way.

When we separated late '05 and divorced in '06, the divorce judge deemed the "marital" home to be sold. He went home to live with his mother. I had nowhere to go with my boys and myself. I had no other option but to live in roach-infested government housing in the area. I had to walk in to the DFS (Division of Family Services) with my head hung low do to embarrassment and apply for medical insurance and foodtamps. I had to give them such personal information i felt they knew more about me then i knew about myself. It was horrible, and i was NOT proud to then be "in the system".

For about 6 months i did have a small part-time "as-needed" job with the school system being a substitute aide in the head-start program, but definately not enough for me to get a more decent place and be self-supporting.

I met my fiance in 06, and we had our daughter on '07 and our son in '09. Our daughter was born with a rare genetic disorder and she had a lot of different therapies when she was younger, so again, i wanted to be home with her. Our son is a bit over 2 and not in school and it would drain us finacially for him to be put in a daycare of any sort.

When i moved in w my fiance, we still got foodtamps, but as soon as our daughter recieved her disability checks, that stopped

I am enjoying my time home with my family, but would like to have smething to do once the youngest is at school, but with the economy being shit, i feel noone will hire me being out of work for so long, but i know i will make the effort, when the time comes.

My parents are in their late 60's and i have a grandma who turns 92 next month that is basically bedridden and it was told to us she probably wont be here come this Christmas. She is in a nursing home 800 miles away and would love to visit her before she passes but i cant bring myself to do it. i want to remember her and my last image of her up and walking and talking and smiling.

I agree with the way Georgina is leaning.. it does give me the ability to spend time with family, and noone can put a price on that

[rhexis07]

punkrockbigmouth, on 12 May 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

It is a fucking joke. I'm working 40 hours a week in a high stress level job, constantly being berated by patients who pay pennies for their medications for their kid's inhaler which he needs because he has so much fat clogging up his windpipe, and watching them charge Oreos and Cheetos on their welfare card. And when I pick up my meds, I gasp at the $70 co-pay I have to dish out, nevermind the fucking $50 my health insurance takes out of my paycheck every two weeks, and then, exhausted and lamenting for humanity, I come home to another dinner of beans and rice. (To be fair, I also play Neopets on my cable internet, or bake brownies in the fake bakery I have in an app on my iphone. But I earned the money, so kiss my ass.)

I'm sorry but I just had to laugh. Bakery Story! I reached Level 42 and gave up playing.

[Georgina]

punkrockbigmouth, on 12 May 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

I would love to sit at home and do nothing for the rest of my life. But I am not the only person who depends on my income.



Not having the luxuries in life? In America, poor people on Medicaid and Food Stamps don't have to pay for medicine or food. Think of how much money you'd save if you got those things for free. Now go spend that money on an iphone or on a $150 pair of Nikes for your fucking hoodrat kid on ADD meds. It's the American dream realized. If I were smart, I would end the suffering of dealing with morons every day.... get myself fired squirt out a kid (all the other Mexican girls do it repeatedly! Why can't I?!) and let Uncle Sam support me for the rest of my life.

In the UK the standard unemployment benefit is around £50 a week (like $75?) and then you also get your house and some bills paid for. We have the NHS here and in Wales medication is majoritivley free, so its not much of a different story here.

I agree with you though, I work hard 40 hours a week, for not that much of an amazing wage tbh, it's decent, but hell, if I didn't work, I wouldn't have half the expenses i currently have like car, fuel, extra food bills ( i only tend to eat lunch at work due to boredom) office clothing etc etc. While I see my friend go on the piss most Saturday nights, and do bugger all! Apart from the occasional cash in hand job and I wonder whose got it right? haha.

tak1968, on 12 May 2011 - 07:47 AM, said:

I agree with the way Georgina is leaning.. it does give me the ability to spend time with family, and noone can put a price on that

It's nice to hear it from another point of veiw tbh tak! I mean atleast you are out of work because you were a housewife but its still iinteresting to hear. And im not sure as to which way I am leaning right now. Family is majorly important to me and I enjoy being sucessfull at work etc but I sometimes just feel like giving it up.

[punkrockbigmouth]

Georgina, on 12 May 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

I agree with you though, I work hard 40 hours a week, for not that much of an amazing wage tbh, it's decent, but hell, if I didn't work, I wouldn't have half the expenses i currently have like car, fuel, extra food bills ( i only tend to eat lunch at work due to boredom) office clothing etc etc. While I see my friend go on the piss most Saturday nights, and do bugger all! Apart from the occasional cash in hand job and I wonder whose got it right? haha.

Meh. At least you can take pride in your work.

tak1968, on 12 May 2011 - 07:47 AM, said:

my 2 boys... I met my fiance in 06, and we had our daughter on '07 and our son in '09.

Why OH WHYYYYYY do you keep having children if you can't financially support them?
Yes it is degrading when you have to sign up for welfare. They want to know ALL your business. But why should you deserve any sense of pride when you're going in for handouts? Just have to suck it up and be grateful such a program is in place to feed your kids. I know what it is to be hungry. There were times my family had to get food stamps when I was little. But, Jesus, not for 15 years.

[Surrico]

There are smart ways to go about doing things that will let you spend more time with family while still holding a decent job. First thing would be to find out if you have to work the standard "9-5." I know of a few jobs around here that have actually let employees (depending on what they did within the company) work at night and do the same thing they would have been doing during the day. Then there is simply just taking a job and working the night shift somewhere. It might not be as glamorous of a job as you might get working during the day but if you plan it carefully it could let you spend more time with family. But then again you will still end up missing some of the time you could spend with them if you were unemployed.

[tak1968]

Why OH WHYYYYYY do you keep having children if you can't financially support them?
Yes it is degrading when you have to sign up for welfare. They want to know ALL your business. But why should you deserve any sense of pride when you're going in for handouts? Just have to suck it up and be grateful such a program is in place to feed your kids. I know what it is to be hungry. There were times my family had to get food stamps when I was little. But, Jesus, not for 15 years


i didnt say i was on assistance for 15 years. i said i am unemployed for 15 years. i recieved foodtamps for about 2 of those years, when i was on my own.

and if you would like to know my medical history, as of May 2009, i am unable to have anymore children. why did i do this? because i know one more would mean my other children would get less, my family of 6 is quite content where we are right now. yes we dont go on cruises or drive brand new cars, but we are ok. I dont pop babies out for the hell of it and expect the working folks to support them, all four of my children were wanted and are loved and were not brought into this world to have mommy and daddy get freebies.


also my medicaid ended last October, so as of now we have no assistance whatsoever. perviously i was only telling my story, on what happened w assistance a few yrs ago. we are a one-income household but we are ok

Edited by tak1968, 12 May 2011 - 08:37 AM.

[WharfRat]

Well G... The way I see it is that society does allow some fringe a long term free ride. The problem comes with the balance of working folks and bums. (Note, I do not consider people who are temporarily down on their luck bums... I'm speaking of the people who will be on welfare for years and years and never both to look for work... or even friends I've had who started drawing unemployment and declined work offers because they were making more money to NOT work.)

If too many people move over to the bums category, the taxes on the working folks will increase to support the growing number of bums, or the ship will sink as not enough people are paying taxes to continue to support everyone. I think that what drives me to work (and what I presume others but I may be mistaken) is that I do want to feel like I owe something to anyone. I don't want to have to be dependent upon my government for support and more importantly, I would feel like a bad person to consistently make my living off the backs of others that do work hard.

Are these entiltlement programs largely killing our nation? (By our, I mean mine... but yours is also not doing so hot. ) Yes - to an extent. Our taxes are too low and the people receiving/needing benefits is rising... Either we have to reform our tax code if we are willing to take a cut to our quality of life so that people who don't work can live... or we can... well... I frankly don't see another realistic and viable option... =/

So yes, bums do have it easy... but the real question is would you truly be okay/happy knowing that you are a total parasite to your friends, family, nation, and/or humanity? I am not okay with it, so I will continue to work.

Have a head cold so I hope this all made sense but I know there was much more I wanted to say but kept losing it.
Cody

[punkrockbigmouth]

tak1968, on 12 May 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

also my medicaid ended last October, so as of now we have no assistance whatsoever.

Except for your daughter's disability checks, without which, it would be almost impossible to keep her healthy and comfortable because medical prices are ridiculous.

Please don't think I am judging you or looking down my nose at you. In no way do I think being a stay at home mother is easy. I am not heartless, I really do believe welfare is a wonderful thing, because it helps people when they're at their lowest, and I am all about helping each other out. It's just that I've seen so many disgusting people taking advantage of the system that whenever the issue comes up, I get really angry because it's not fair to the people working their asses off to feed their families.

I wish I could manage to live without working, so maybe I'm just jealous.

WharfRat, on 12 May 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

So yes, bums do have it easy... but the real question is would you truly be okay/happy knowing that you are a total parasite to your friends, family, nation, and/or humanity? I am not okay with it, so I will continue to work.

Yeah, me too.

[tak1968]

TY Punkrock. its ok. Just as u are upset over ppl who abuse the system, so am i. i get real real disgusted at those who go to the grocery store cash out 2 cartfulls of crap junk food for their family, pay in foodstamps, have a balance of 5 dollars, and pay with a hundred dollar bill. then they haul their carts and put off the stuff in a new cadillac. Even when i was on assistance for those few yrs, those kind of ppl turned my stomach.

[WharfRat]

tak1968, on 12 May 2011 - 08:56 AM, said:

TY Punkrock. its ok. Just as u are upset over ppl who abuse the system, so am i. i get real real disgusted at those who go to the grocery store cash out 2 cartfulls of crap junk food for their family, pay in foodstamps, have a balance of 5 dollars, and pay with a hundred dollar bill. then they haul their carts and put off the stuff in a new cadillac. Even when i was on assistance for those few yrs, those kind of ppl turned my stomach.

Haha... I worked at a grocery stores for a bit when I was younger and I remember so many people on Food Stamps coming through and buying steak and lobster in large ass amounts... Stuff that I couldn't dream of affording to eat on a regular basis...

I may post a link if I can find it/care enough to try to find it later to a blog of this pharmacist and he did a "study" on the proportion of patients who drive through in a black Cadillac Escalade and are covered on medicaid.

[Frizzle]

I'm getting annoyed with heroin addicts demanding methadone because they know their entitiled to it.

[zandra]

rhexis07, on 12 May 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

Have they ever really thought about why is it that the aging population never gets solved. How on earth do they expect families to give birth to 3-4 child and raise them without problem when every cost is increasing, but job wages remains unchanged and still as difficult to find as always. It's ridiculous. The only reason why in the future, I will stick to 1, or at most 2 child, is because it will be an uphill task to raise 3 kids.

EDIT: Oh wow, 3 Singaporeans in one topic. That's quite amazing! Never thought I would see so many fellow countrymen on this kind of sites.

Anyway, Zandra, Singapore government ever only cares about the growth of their pocket, and not it's citizen.

And I think we better end our discussion soon before we stray too far off topic and make this a Singapore discussion.

yeah i agree with that. but they cant do much to it. they tried giving abit of money but i agree that is not enough with the expense of living. but they cant do much about it. if they lower the prices, our growth will also go down. the choice is,
growth go down prices go down,
growth go down prices go up,
growth go up prices go up,
growth go up prices go down and nobody wants to trade with Singapore.
the only way is make ourself poorer and be able to buy less things before seeing any price decreasing.

and yes. i am amazed. i always tot that neopets already died for the Singapore crowd.

[frostz]

WharfRat, on 12 May 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

Haha... I worked at a grocery stores for a bit when I was younger and I remember so many people on Food Stamps coming through and buying steak and lobster in large ass amounts... Stuff that I couldn't dream of affording to eat on a regular basis...

I may post a link if I can find it/care enough to try to find it later to a blog of this pharmacist and he did a "study" on the proportion of patients who drive through in a black Cadillac Escalade and are covered on medicaid.

yea actually people who abuse the system makes me kinda angry ;\

[choco25]

rhexis07, on 12 May 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

Interesting topic. I'm the kind of person who also wants to believe that life is short, and we should enjoy it while we can.

I'm from Singapore. I don't know how the Government System is for your country, but here in Singapore, the poor people are really, really poor, and are often seen collecting cupboard boxes and recycled cans to earn that extra few dollars a day. These people tend to be the elderly.

And here in Singapore, the retirement age is 68, which is honestly crazy, because by that time, we'll probably be too old to enjoy all the thrills and spills. The living cost is high and even a house cost a crazy amount. So in Singapore, in order to enjoy life, we have to work, otherwise we can just rot our life away. Not to mention that right now, looking for jobs are difficult as well. Unless of course we are born with a silver spoon.

I think the problem with working long hours didn't really exist in the past, but because of the growing technology, we are now able to bring our work home, and working hours tend to be extended to more than the usual 8 hours a day, sometimes even stretching all the way to weekend. When I think about my future with my SO, I'm quite sadden because the growing living cost in Singapore would mean both of us would have to work in order to pay off house loans, car loans and all, and would have to put our child in Childcare Centres while we are working. While we would be able to spend time with them in the evening after work, but we lose out on the opportunity to play with them through the day because we have to make a living for a better future for the family.

In the past, having a sole breadwinner in the family would be sufficient. I would come home to see my Mum greeting me and bringing me out for lunch, and then cooking dinner while I watch the TV. But now, it seems highly unlikely to live that sort of life.

Therefore, I conclude that to even enjoy life, at least here at where I live, unemployment is a no go.

I think I strayed a little off topic and didn't answer your questions properly. My brain is a little fried since I've been studying for the past 8 hours for an exam that's extremely difficult, but I hope I shared with you a little something.

EDIT: Oh and +rep for an interesting topic. I'm beat from all the studying.

Hehe.. I live in Singapore also... but I'm not singaporean though..
First time I moved here, I was shocked that I saw elderly still WORK!! back in my homeland, I hardly see elderly still work... especially as cleaner etc etc..

[frostz]

yea that sounds like it would suck if the elderly have nothing to fall back on and still have to work to get by.

[Muffin]

Quote

Sure, these people, they wont have the option to go on holidays, have very nice homes, spend money on going out to places etc etc

Most of the unemployed people are both smart and lazy. Unfortunately in the UK these people do have the option to go on holidays and have nice homes etc. They get given plenty of money where as people who genuinly struggle get zilch, i hate it

[choco25]

Muffin, on 17 May 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

Most of the unemployed people are both smart and lazy. Unfortunately in the UK these people do have the option to go on holidays and have nice homes etc. They get given plenty of money where as people who genuinly struggle get zilch, i hate it

whoaa... so good lorh