71 replies to this topic

[Joanna]

I recently saw this link that my brother posted on facebook. He, consequently, began to bash them (the creators and those who attend) solely because he doesn't believe in "the power of prayer". Frankly, neither do I... but I am one to think that you shouldn't discount those who actually do believe that their prayers are heard and answered and hate on them for trying.

Do these people actually need to spend lots of money and gather when prayer should be just as effective in their own homes??


Some have said that this event is purely political- especially since it is being held in the (imo) most religious state in the US- and is a ploy to get politicians re-elected.

Also, I am conflicted because this could possibly be a HUGE waste of time and money. For myself, not believing that there is a God, find that this money they're using to hold this event could be used to actually help solve the issues here in the states, instead of relying on prayer to solve things.


Discuss?

If you're too lazy to click the link and investigate the website then here is a snippet from the main page.

Spoiler

"Fellow Americans,
Right now, America is in crisis: we have been besieged by financial debt, terrorism, and a multitude of natural disasters. As a nation, we must come together and call upon Jesus to guide us through unprecedented struggles, and thank Him for the blessings of freedom we so richly enjoy.
Some problems are beyond our power to solve, and according to the Book of Joel, Chapter 2, this historic hour demands a historic response. Therefore, on August 6, thousands will gather to pray for a historic breakthrough for our country and a renewed sense of moral purpose.
I sincerely hope you’ll join me in Houston on August 6th and take your place in Reliant Stadium with praying people asking God’s forgiveness, wisdom and provision for our state and nation. There is hope for America. It lies in heaven, and we will find it on our knees."

Edited by jsteinberg, 07 June 2011 - 10:38 AM.

[Scot]

[Tetiel]

While I think this is disturbing that a governor is running this (makes it feel government endorsed), I really don't see the harm in letting people believe what they want to believe. Is their praying together really hurting anyone at all? Sure, you believe it's not helping, but it is their belief that it does, not yours. I mean it's not like they're charging admission.

[Keil]

Putting spirituality aside, prayer unites minds under one mentality to truly believe towards favored future events. I personally would not bash people who pray because if it keeps them mentally strong to work towards the same goal. Also, it reduces the crimes committed in nation by fostering certain taboos through expressing outward desires for a secure life. I really don't know what contributes to the results of prayers other than the psychological aspects that fulfills certain basic needs of security, but I do know better than to question it and possibly disrupt a certain level of peace in the neighborhood. (I'd rather not go in depth or else this topic would go off to an unpleasant tangent.)

People don't need all that jazz to follow their beliefs. I've seen many religious figures live out their lives and beliefs completely without flashy conventions.

As for using money to promote the event... that's a ploy for most, but has good intentions for the few. Possibly, the religious leaders of that movement really are full-hearted and strong in their practice while other secular political leaders will use anything to benefit their standings in society.

For the prayer vs. practicality argument: I think that prayer helps in recognizing and organizing goals which is required before haphazardly jumping into solving conflicts without a stronger direction.

[Kats]

Quote

Also, I am conflicted because this could possibly be a HUGE waste of time and money. For myself, not believing that there is a God, find that this money they're using to hold this event could be used to actually help solve the issues here in the states, instead of relying on prayer to solve things.

THIS. It's so hypocritical to throw money at this and pray instead of money towards the actual problems we have. I am ashamed that this man is still out governor. ANY of the other candidates (even though they were crackpots too) would have been better than this guy again.

Then once the problem is solved, these people will say "our prayers were answered!" No they weren't. Someone got off their ass and did something about it.

[tak1968]

Prayer is what u make of it. However, in no way will prayer end war, lower gas prices, feed the hungry children, etc. i do not believe in god, i believe in fate. Some things work out, some dont. If it was meant to go or end a certain way, then so be it.

If you are one of the "believers" and you feel prayer has worked for you. that's cool with me. I do not judge you. What i dont like is people on my FB page quoting scripture all day long. Please dont rub it in my face. I had to delete my own COUSIN because she wouldnt stop.

As for those, mainly in the Baptist religion, where they have the pastor "heal" afflicted people, thats bullshit. And giving money to any church just funds the BMW's and such higher members of congrgation drive.

I spent 4 years in a Roman Catholic HS. i have been baptized, made my first communion, married in a catholic church, the whole works. Did it make me a better person? NO. I am who i am and i do what i do from life choices and experiences

To sum it up... prayer will NOT heal the world's problems.. politicians and other world learders need to get their heads out of their asses.

ty for reading

[Joanna]

Tetiel, on 07 June 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

While I think this is disturbing that a governor is running this (makes it feel government endorsed), I really don't see the harm in letting people believe what they want to believe. Is their praying together really hurting anyone at all? Sure, you believe it's not helping, but it is their belief that it does, not yours. I mean it's not like they're charging admission.

In Texas they don't seem to care about separation of church and state, much like the rest of the southern states. (Kansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia)

Keil, on 07 June 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

Putting spirituality aside, prayer unites minds under one mentality to truly believe towards favored future events. I personally would not bash people who pray because if it keeps them mentally strong to work towards the same goal. Also, it reduces the crimes committed in nation by fostering certain taboos through expressing outward desires for a secure life. I really don't know what contributes to the results of prayers other than the psychological aspects that fulfills certain basic needs of security, but I do know better than to question it and possibly disrupt a certain level of peace in the neighborhood. (I'd rather not go in depth or else this topic would go off to an unpleasant tangent.)

People don't need all that jazz to follow their beliefs. I've seen many religious figures live out their lives and beliefs completely without flashy conventions.

As for using money to promote the event... that's a ploy for most, but has good intentions for the few. Possibly, the religious leaders of that movement really are full-hearted and strong in their practice while other secular political leaders will use anything to benefit their standings in society.

For the prayer vs. practicality argument: I think that prayer helps in recognizing and organizing goals which is required before haphazardly jumping into solving conflicts without a stronger direction.

I think its good that you won't hate on people based on their beliefs.


Also I agree... this event is uniting people towards a cause which other organizations try to do but fail. Religion does unite people muchhh more easily.

[Sweeney]

Keil, on 07 June 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

Putting spirituality aside, prayer unites minds under one mentality to truly believe towards favored future events.

No, it doesn't.
Uniting people to pray unites minds under one mentality.
Cut out the middle man, and cut out the bullshit.

Bring people together to achieve something, rather than bringing people together to pray about achieving something. Which achieves nothing that a prayerless get-together doesn't.

[Joanna]

Katrinas, on 07 June 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

THIS. It's so hypocritical to throw money at this and pray instead of money towards the actual problems we have. I am ashamed that this man is still out governor. ANY of the other candidates (even though they were crackpots too) would have been better than this guy again.

Then once the problem is solved, these people will say "our prayers were answered!" No they weren't. Someone got off their ass and did something about it.

You live in Texas?

[Sweeney]

jsteinberg, on 07 June 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

Religion does unite people muchhh more easily.

For the wrong reasons.

People should come together for a cause they believe in, not for a cause that a minister tells them is important.
Increasing the numbers of apathetic people undermines the thrust of a movement.

[Joanna]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

No, it doesn't.
Uniting people to pray unites minds under one mentality.
Cut out the middle man, and cut out the bullshit.

Bring people together to achieve something, rather than bringing people together to pray about achieving something. Which achieves nothing that a prayerless get-together doesn't.

I agree with you to a point. I think that what they're doing is pointless using prayer solely, but religion does unite people toward achieving goals. If they think God wants them to do it... then they will do it.

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 11:56 AM, said:

For the wrong reasons.

People should come together for a cause they believe in, not for a cause that a minister tells them is important.
Increasing the numbers of apathetic people undermines the thrust of a movement.

I agree with you 100%.

[Keil]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

Cut out the middle man, and cut out the bullshit.

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say, but I fail. What do you refer as the middleman and what do you refer as the bullshit?

[Joanna]

Keil, on 07 June 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say, but I fail. What do you refer as the middleman and what do you refer as the bullshit?

God is the middleman, and prayer is the bullshit. I think.

[Sweeney]

Keil, on 07 June 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say, but I fail. What do you refer as the middleman and what do you refer as the bullshit?

I think it was fairly obvious that prayer is the "middle man", and the bullshit.

Don't gather people to pray. Gather people to take action.
Build a well, protest in the streets, clean out a riverbed. Don't sit in a room with your eyes closed asking Jesus to do your dirty work.

[iargue]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

I think it was fairly obvious that prayer is the "middle man", and the bullshit.

Don't gather people to pray. Gather people to take action.
Build a well, protest in the streets, clean out a riverbed. Don't sit in a room with your eyes closed asking Jesus to do your dirty work.

Agreed. As god himself said, "I help those who help themselves" So everyone should have the same view on it. People need to actually do something to change the world, and not just hope someone else will.

[Tetiel]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 11:56 AM, said:

For the wrong reasons.

People should come together for a cause they believe in, not for a cause that a minister tells them is important.
Increasing the numbers of apathetic people undermines the thrust of a movement.

To be fair, a lot of those people will believe that the cause is important and not just because the minister tells them so. Not all Christians are sheep that don't think for themselves. There are sheep in all fields, not just religion.

[Sweeney]

Tetiel, on 07 June 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

To be fair, a lot of those people will believe that the cause is important and not just because the minister tells them so. Not all Christians are sheep that don't think for themselves. There are sheep in all fields, not just religion.

Then it's their own feelings that get them involved, not their religion.

The only advantage that you could argue for a churchgoer is the networking.

[Tetiel]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

I think it was fairly obvious that prayer is the "middle man", and the bullshit.

Don't gather people to pray. Gather people to take action.
Build a well, protest in the streets, clean out a riverbed. Don't sit in a room with your eyes closed asking Jesus to do your dirty work.

Thankfully, I grew up in a church that believed more in action than prayer. I do entirely agree with you that this is the most effective route. It does actually confuse me that I didn't read a single thing about them collecting donations for charities to help anyone, but instead they're fasting.

[Joanna]

Tetiel, on 07 June 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

To be fair, a lot of those people will believe that the cause is important and not just because the minister tells them so. Not all Christians are sheep that don't think for themselves. There are sheep in all fields, not just religion.

I agree with you that some Christians aren't as .... Im not sure what word I'm looking for .... blind as most. But I argue that all Christians are sheep that need a shepard.

[Tetiel]

Sweeney, on 07 June 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

Then it's their own feelings that get them involved, not their religion.

The only advantage that you could argue for a churchgoer is the networking.

And that is the main argument, the support of the congregation. For this very reason, I have always argued against megachurches.

jsteinberg, on 07 June 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

I agree with you that some Christians aren't as .... Im not sure what word I'm looking for .... blind as most. But I argue that all Christians are sheep that need a shepard.

The only reason I said what I said is to counter the stereotype. I agree with you, quite a few do not think for themselves, but that's the entire world, not just religion. There are quite a few athiests who do not think for themselves. Religion doesn't really factor into it much anymore, I've found. Idiots are idiots.

[Kats]

jsteinberg, on 07 June 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:

You live in Texas?

Yes.

[Joanna]

Katrinas, on 07 June 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yes.

Is Texas as crazzzzy religious as I've heard??

Tetiel, on 07 June 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

And that is the main argument, the support of the congregation. For this very reason, I have always argued against megachurches.


The only reason I said what I said is to counter the stereotype. I agree with you, quite a few do not think for themselves, but that's the entire world, not just religion. There are quite a few athiests who do not think for themselves. Religion doesn't really factor into it much anymore, I've found. Idiots are idiots.

I see what you're saying. And you're right about atheists. The person who posted the link originally on facebook is CRAZY obsessed with his atheism.... and he really just says whatever the book hes reading says and hates on ANYONE who is religious. It is sad.

[Kats]

jsteinberg, on 07 June 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

Is Texas as crazzzzy religious as I've heard??

It depends on the area and who you are around.
Less populated areas = more religion
More populated = less religion

My area is kind of in between, and lots of people here are religious, but not crazy about it.
There are plenty that aren't as well so it's not hard to just avoid the churchy folks.

[jcrboy]

jsteinberg, on 07 June 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

I see what you're saying. And you're right about atheists. The person who posted the link originally on facebook is CRAZY obsessed with his atheism.... and he really just says whatever the book hes reading says and hates on ANYONE who is religious. It is sad.

Oh.. so wait, he's just as bad as fanatical Christians?

[Joanna]

jcrboy, on 07 June 2011 - 12:31 PM, said:

Oh.. so wait, he's just as bad as fanatical Christians?

Sometimes I think hes worse.