52 replies to this topic

[iChelsea]

Edit what I typed once more, and I will warn you.

These posts have been moved to help entice more debating, that is actually on topic.

Some people using Hacking as cheating, and come people using Cheating as Hacking. Is this an acceptable usage of the words, or are they idiots for using this word?

Edited by iargue, 15 June 2011 - 09:57 AM.
Moved the posts

[Tetiel]

Congratulations you know 50 people over 18 out of the millions of users on neopets. It was designed for college kids, but lets be real. It's obviously not for college kids anymore. Everything is G rated and most college kids are out doing things with their lives, or playing World of Warcraft or Call of Duty, not Neopets. Most college kids would laugh in your face if you told them you play Neopets, and the ones that wouldn't are probably just as addicted as you are.

Hacking vs botting, the same concept applies that you are cheating on a game where 80% of the users are under 18.

I thought it was clear in my last post that I broke the rules because I obviously do not give a fuck. I hope I get banned for this post. So feel free to hack me, because my account is probably getting banned anyways.

Okay, okay, I agreed with the first part of your post... but then you decided to further act like an idiot by really not understanding that we would have absolutely nothing to gain by hacking into your account. Not only that, how exactly would we hack into your NEOPETS account based off the information you've posted here exactly? Good lord, quit raging.

[iChelsea]

Okay, okay, I agreed with the first part of your post... but then you decided to further act like an idiot by really not understanding that we would have absolutely nothing to gain by hacking into your account. Not only that, how exactly would we hack into your NEOPETS account based off the information you've posted here exactly? Good lord, quit raging.

I only see the bit about hacking my account because

Who's hacking who now?

And Ive never hacked someones account, but I could imagine it would be at least slightly funny/entertaining. And I didn't say anything about my neopets account.

[Tetiel]

I only see the bit about hacking my account because
[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]

Right, but as iargue said, we do not hack anything. We bot things. While you might not agree, there is a huge difference.

Hacking:
"Unauthorized attempts to bypass the security mechanisms of an information system or network."
Bot or Botting:
"A piece of software designed to complete a minor but repetitive task automatically or on command, especially when operating with the appearance of a (human) user profile or account."

Arguably both are malicious, but one is clearly more so than the other. The same concept really doesn't apply. To hack a website would be to gain access in order to change something about the website or to gain information from their servers. We really don't do that which is why they said what they said. We do not do that because it is very, very illegal.

[iChelsea]

The Jargon File, a compendium of hacker slang, defines hacker as "A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and stretching their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. The Request for Comments (RFC) 1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, amplifies this meaning as "A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular."

"Hack" is a very general term. Anyways, it still applies to the same concept. That concept being that you cheat to gain advantage over other players. You can explain the difference between botting and hacking all you want, its still cheating, you still get frozen for it.
Basically this thread is just stupid. Who cares if someone posts without reading the entire thread? So what if you accidentally make a topic in the wrong section? Why wouldn't you get mad if everyone ignores you for no reason, and acts completely stuck up because they have more POSTS than you? Come on.

[Tetiel]

Basically this thread is just stupid. Who cares if someone posts without reading the entire thread? So what if you accidentally make a topic in the wrong section? Why wouldn't you get mad if everyone ignores you for no reason, and acts completely stuck up because they have more POSTS than you? Come on.

Since we're obviously never going to agree on the hack vs botting thing, I'll just ignore it.

It's not stupid, you're just not getting it. It's IRRITATING when someone posts without reading not the entire thread, but mostly the original post. If you don't read the original post, why the hell would anyone want to bother reading yours? It's not even about being annoying, it's about respect. If you can't be bothered to read, just don't post. Oh, and in a topic where you're asking help, you should actually bother reading the entire thread because it might have already been addressed. If you can't bother to do that, why should someone bother helping? This topic isn't about berating, it's to prevent people from being berated.

Accidents are okay especially when they don't understand the board at first. That's why we just report them and move on, but this guide is here so people understand that they should look for the proper sections first. I have seen just since coming back on the board sometimes the same people posting in the wrong section over and over and over again, despite people trying to helpfully guide them to the right section. There's a reason why we have organization of topics on forums.

And uhhh... if someone posts randomly "HAI LOLOLOL" in a topic like the OP was giving as an example, I really wouldn't respond to them as they don't really have anything to warrant responding to as it very rarely has anything to do with the topic. It's not about posts. Where the hell did you get that?

[iChelsea]

Your complete and utter failure to understand the difference between Hacking and Botting astounds me, and even makes me angry, because you are part of a very very large problem in the technology industry. As a computer Security Major, and a current Computer Security Consultant, as well as a programmer, I tell you what we are doing is not hacking, and you are honestly going to try and argue with me? We have already established that you know very little about computers from your linux topic, so you should just accept whenever someone tells you that these concepts are completely different, then you should accept that they are completely different.

You create a large state of issues for anyone within the technology industry. Because Game makers would love to have "botting" declared as hacking. This means that they can actually sue and make millions from the bot makers, as well as prevent them from producing the bot in the future, thus eliminating any work on them to introduce anti-bot methods. While everyone else in the industry does not want this to happen, as it creates an completely unfair level of control for corporations and allows them to expand from botting, to even just modifying their software for your own personal uses. Take a look at the people who made MMOGlider. Blizzard tries to sue them for hacking, because they made a bot. They had to go all of the way to the ninth circuit for a judge to finally realize that they did not bypass anything, and they did not break into anywhere. They where always where they had permission to go. And so they finally overturned lawsuit that would have cost them a million dollars in damages to blizzard. A million dollars, for just making a program that lets people level up easier/farm gold easier. Blizzard actually -made- money from the glider software, and then tried to sue to make more money.

And its because people like you that they almost one.

So please, stop making enemies here, and just move on from this topic.

WTF? You continue to fail to grasp the concept behind what I am saying. First of all, the word hacking can also be used in a broader sense, and if you have a problem with the definition I provided take it up with Jargon File Resources, not me. Just because a select group of people gave it a more specific meaning doesn't take away the general definition as well.

Second of all, all of that shit is irrelevant anyways. The point I am TRYING to make is that botting is still cheating. LIke I said, you can still get banned from it. It's cheating. That's all I'm saying. The difference between botting and hacking doesn't matter to me. I should have just said the word "cheating" instead of hacking so I didn't have to get attacked about all these damn technical details that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about anyways.

Since we're obviously never going to agree on the hack vs botting thing, I'll just ignore it.

It's not stupid, you're just not getting it. It's IRRITATING when someone posts without reading not the entire thread, but mostly the original post. If you don't read the original post, why the hell would anyone want to bother reading yours? It's not even about being annoying, it's about respect. If you can't be bothered to read, just don't post. Oh, and in a topic where you're asking help, you should actually bother reading the entire thread because it might have already been addressed. If you can't bother to do that, why should someone bother helping? This topic isn't about berating, it's to prevent people from being berated.

Accidents are okay especially when they don't understand the board at first. That's why we just report them and move on, but this guide is here so people understand that they should look for the proper sections first. I have seen just since coming back on the board sometimes the same people posting in the wrong section over and over and over again, despite people trying to helpfully guide them to the right section. There's a reason why we have organization of topics on forums.

And uhhh... if someone posts randomly "HAI LOLOLOL" in a topic like the OP was giving as an example, I really wouldn't respond to them as they don't really have anything to warrant responding to as it very rarely has anything to do with the topic. It's not about posts. Where the hell did you get that?

I understand reading the thread, and the posts so you know whats going on, it's just that people take it so seriously. And some people don't read certain threads like newbies threads for example, because who wants to read everyone just saying the same thing? "Welcome to neocodex blah blah blah", and there is a link to a forum where someone didn't read it and notice it was an old topic and everyone was having a conniption. The way the guide was written didn't seem to imply any sort of respect anyways.

[iargue]

Moved the posts here to start a proper debate

[Cyo]

Some people call all people of Asian descent Chinese, doesn't make all the Asians Chinese though.

[Boggart]

Some people call all people of Asian descent Chinese, doesn't make all the Asians Chinese though.

Meh, we're the only ones that matter though.

[talbs]

Some people call all people of Asian descent Chinese, doesn't make all the Asians Chinese though.

LOL off topic but I was walking around the mall with my dad once (who loves chinese food) and at the food court there was a place called "asian cuisine" or something like that. While looking over the selections of restaurants and reading them out loud he looked at me and said "Asian cuisine, I wonder what they serve, I don't believe I have ever eaten Asian food before"

[Tetiel]

I understand reading the thread, and the posts so you know whats going on, it's just that people take it so seriously. And some people don't read certain threads like newbies threads for example, because who wants to read everyone just saying the same thing? "Welcome to neocodex blah blah blah", and there is a link to a forum where someone didn't read it and notice it was an old topic and everyone was having a conniption. The way the guide was written didn't seem to imply any sort of respect anyways.

The people who take it to seriously would fall under rule #4, the butthurt, anyways. I did read the entire thread, but I didn't see a link. Could you by any chance provide it for me? I might be blind. If it was gravedigging that was an issue, I'll give you a little story. I'm full of them (as all as all sorts of... stuff).

Back when neocodex opened their registrations back in July '05, all sorts of nublets, including myself, joined. Melchoire, too, if he doesn't mind me using him as an example. One of his first posts, if I remember correctly, was bumping up a year old topic about the Simpsons which he probably found by searching "Simpsons." People who were annoyed by the sudden influx of us nublets bitched and moaned at him for bumping a topic. Realizing his error, he moved on and posted elsewhere and never did it again. He later became jr. programmer very early on and a prominent member of the site. That's what people yelling at little guys does. It shapes them up into good members.

The guide was written in a manner that it would be funny to read while still making the points. That way it would be fun for both old users and new users instead of the good old "blah blah blah" threads that you have already mentioned.

P.S. thank you iargue for feeding my addiction *shakes fist*

[Random]

The people who take it to seriously would fall under rule #4, the butthurt, anyways. I did read the entire thread, but I didn't see a link. Could you by any chance provide it for me? I might be blind. If it was gravedigging that was an issue, I'll give you a little story. I'm full of them (as all as all sorts of... stuff).

Back when neocodex opened their registrations back in July '05, all sorts of nublets, including myself, joined. Melchoire, too, if he doesn't mind me using him as an example. One of his first posts, if I remember correctly, was bumping up a year old topic about the Simpsons which he probably found by searching "Simpsons." People who were annoyed by the sudden influx of us nublets bitched and moaned at him for bumping a topic. Realizing his error, he moved on and posted elsewhere and never did it again. He later became jr. programmer very early on and a prominent member of the site. That's what people yelling at little guys does. It shapes them up into good members.

The guide was written in a manner that it would be funny to read while still making the points. That way it would be fun for both old users and new users instead of the good old "blah blah blah" threads that you have already mentioned.

P.S. thank you iargue for feeding my addiction *shakes fist*

QFT

Everything Tet said is true.
I was a fucking moron when I joined this website.

Now, if it wasn't for this website, I wouldn't be as knowledgeable and successful in many of my current endeavors.
There are 3 other users I keep in touch with that aren't here anymore. They can all agree the same thing happened for them.

I don't know exactly what went on with you, but it seems you should just relax.

[iChelsea]

LOL off topic but I was walking around the mall with my dad once (who loves chinese food) and at the food court there was a place called "asian cuisine" or something like that. While looking over the selections of restaurants and reading them out loud he looked at me and said "Asian cuisine, I wonder what they serve, I don't believe I have ever eaten Asian food before"

lmao. sounds like something my dad would do.

[Kat]

Lol, why did you edit first post?

Methinks OP wants to forget this embarrassment and move on.

[iChelsea]

Lol, why did you edit first post?

Methinks OP wants to forget this embarrassment and move on.

No one asked me if I wanted to start a thread. xD

[Tetiel]

QFT

Everything Tet said is true.
I was a fucking moron when I joined this website.

Now, if it wasn't for this website, I wouldn't be as knowledgeable and successful in many of my current endeavors.
There are 3 other users I keep in touch with that aren't here anymore. They can all agree the same thing happened for them.

I don't know exactly what went on with you, but it seems you should just relax.

It's so true. I remember this when I posted the first sig I ever made. People were like NO. YOU'RE BAD. Of course I was all hurt and like awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww fiddlesticks... but hey, I improved eventually. And like you, this was one of my first forums and I learned all sorts of things about people from here as well as get some more leadership experience.

And bwahaha... embarrassment and callouts work for even the OP (hopefully)

[Joanna]

The people who take it to seriously would fall under rule #4, the butthurt, anyways. I did read the entire thread, but I didn't see a link. Could you by any chance provide it for me? I might be blind. If it was gravedigging that was an issue, I'll give you a little story. I'm full of them (as all as all sorts of... stuff).

Back when neocodex opened their registrations back in July '05, all sorts of nublets, including myself, joined. Melchoire, too, if he doesn't mind me using him as an example. One of his first posts, if I remember correctly, was bumping up a year old topic about the Simpsons which he probably found by searching "Simpsons." People who were annoyed by the sudden influx of us nublets bitched and moaned at him for bumping a topic. Realizing his error, he moved on and posted elsewhere and never did it again. He later became jr. programmer very early on and a prominent member of the site. That's what people yelling at little guys does. It shapes them up into good members.

The guide was written in a manner that it would be funny to read while still making the points. That way it would be fun for both old users and new users instead of the good old "blah blah blah" threads that you have already mentioned.

P.S. thank you iargue for feeding my addiction *shakes fist*

It happened to me too, and I don't even have thousands of posts, and I'd like to say that I fit in really well around here.

That happens to everyone, and if you don't take everything so seriously around here then you can actually make friends, and realize what a great community this is. Its like moving up in High School, Seniors rule the school and hate every stupid little freshman that gets in their way who doesn't know what they're doing, but you were a freshman once too. It doesn't serve anyone, especially yourself to get so worked up about it. ( @iChelsea, not Tetiel... just quoted your post bc that is what my post refers to)

[Boggart]

Not me, from day 1 I was perfect

But yeah I was pretty spammy when I first started, people called me a spammer. I calmed down after I reached like 2000 posts; but I'm just talkative :3 This was my first forum too and pretty much the only one I'm still on even though I've joined many others. I would like to say I'm a contributing member, but meh xD

[iargue]

No one asked me if I wanted to start a thread. xD

When you post things off topic in the wrong thread, then you want to make an actual topic about it. If you wanted to just post somewhere you didn't think many people could read, so you could increase your post count, that plan failed.

[iChelsea]

It happened to me too, and I don't even have thousands of posts, and I'd like to say that I fit in really well around here.

That happens to everyone, and if you don't take everything so seriously around here then you can actually make friends, and realize what a great community this is. Its like moving up in High School, Seniors rule the school and hate every stupid little freshman that gets in their way who doesn't know what they're doing, but you were a freshman once too. It doesn't serve anyone, especially yourself to get so worked up about it. ( @iChelsea, not Tetiel... just quoted your post bc that is what my post refers to)

Hahaha someone already told me that I have no chance in the forum, *coughBoggartcough* because of one argument. How silly xD


I think its silly to get worked up about forum rules. That's all I'm saying

Edited by iChelsea, 15 June 2011 - 10:10 AM.

[Boggart]

Hahaha someone already told me that I have no chance in the forum, *coughBoggartcough* because of one argument. How silly xD


I think its silly to get worked up about forum rules. That's all I'm saying

I stand by what I said; if you continue to rage and insult people everytime someone calls you out, you won't last long here. I don't mean 500 posts, I mean no one will like you. Simple as that.

[Waser Lave]

Not even a debate.

[iargue]

Not even a debate.

Some people think it is

[Waser Lave]

Some people think it is

Some people are stupid, it's still not a debate.