41 replies to this topic

[ElPinapple]

Where else am I supposed to find this information??

[effellwhy]

meh. I miss it too. but for now, how about this:

http://battlepedia.t...ilyneopets.com/

[Pavement]

Don't trust IDB for advice on weapons though. It's only good for checking up stats.

[shuppet]

I remember using it for DoM advice a long long time ago.

Why is it down?

[ElPinapple]

Don't trust IDB for advice on weapons though. It's only good for checking up stats.

Why's that?

[effellwhy]

shuppet - site says host problems.

[shuppet]

shuppet - site says host problems.

The eteral bane of the sysop.

[desiqtie]

My default mode is to go and see what info they have on stats the moment TNT releases a new BD item. So annoying to get that site down screen instead.

Battlepedia is nice but it's behind a bit No info on the new hammers or new Altador weapons as far as I can tell

[Pavement]

Why's that?

Because a lot of the people on there don't understand the battledome at all; the ratings rarely, if ever, reflect how good a weapon actually is (I'm talking about one's that are actually good); and they take into consideration things like price:icon ratio which stops mattering after certain thresholds.

[Shampoo]

Because a lot of the people on there don't understand the battledome at all; the ratings rarely, if ever, reflect how good a weapon actually is (I'm talking about one's that are actually good); and they take into consideration things like price:icon ratio which stops mattering after certain thresholds.

what is there to understand about the battledome? they've made defense a useless stat now so strategy basically boils down to "have more freezes/icons than the other guy"

[InFeeD]

The rating does matter actually.

Leaded Elemental Vial and Jade scrochstone both having the same effect, but the vials have higher rating IIRC as its much cheaper than the retired scorchstone, you just gotta use your common sense on the reasoning of their rating.


IDB is really useful as there's a lot of expensive but useless BD item out there

Edited by InFeeD, 08 July 2011 - 12:58 AM.

[Pavement]

what is there to understand about the battledome? they've made defense a useless stat now so strategy basically boils down to "have more freezes/icons than the other guy"

If you think defense is now a useless stat, then you do not understand the battledome either.

The rating does matter actually.

Leaded Elemental Vial and Jade scrochstone both having the same effect, but the vials have higher rating IIRC as its much cheaper than the retired scorchstone, you just gotta use your common sense on the reasoning of their rating.


IDB is really useful as there's a lot of expensive but useless BD item out there

Well, it would matter if the ratings where done well. But as it stands, a lot of the posts on idb come from people who will rate a good item down for no reason other than price. When an item is best of breed for its price range (like in the example you cited), then saying it is too expensive is irrelevant.

Look at the low ratings the idb users give to weapons like Glittering Faerie Dust, Everlasting Crystal Apple, Ultranova, Scroll Potion, and Kings Lens. In no way do these numbers reflect how effective the weapons actually are.

Also, idb keeps ratings/opinions from years ago that aren't accurate to the current metagame and haven't been accurate for many years.

[Scot]

Step 1: Search weapon on google.

Step 2: Find IDB result.

Step 3: Click "Cache"

Step 4: ?

Step 5:

Spoiler

[Shampoo]

If you think defense is now a useless stat, then you do not understand the battledome either.

care to elaborate?

Icon based defense is 9 times out of 10 (and that is a generous estimate) a losing deal. Has been for some time. The mass icon weapons they keep introducing with no icon-based defensive equals ensure that it will stay that way.

[Pavement]

First of all, given the league system, defense will always be higher than your strength. Weapons like Ftab and Gshield were good not because of their full-blocking capabilites but because of their ability to soak up random damage from other icons. You can't expect to completely come out on top every round in the BD. You just need to come out on top with more damage. If you think that dual swords is a good idea in any given round, then go ahead. Just know that there are combinations of dual duties and weapons that can easily beat 2 swords.

Edited by Pavement, 08 July 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[Shampoo]

First of all, given the league system,

lol, people actually think leagues are a good idea? sorry, but a system that encourages and rewards people for keeping a weak pet is misguided.

If you think that dual swords is a good idea in any given round, then go ahead. Just know that there are combinations of dual duties and weapons that can easily beat 2 swords.

with a sword for every icon type it's impossible to be prepared for all of them without sacrificing a lot of offensive utility. yeah, you might get lucky and have an opponent use the exact combo that your defensive set blocks perfectly, and have those be their only 2 offensive weapons, but unless you know their set beforehand its blind guesswork. if they happen to be packing anything other than what you predict you lose.

[LemonSundae]

Don't trust IDB for advice on weapons though. It's only good for checking up stats.

But it does need to be back up tho.

[M4ry]

yup, battlepedia is not as good as idb

[DoNotAnnoyMe]

Look at the low ratings the idb users give to weapons like Glittering Faerie Dust, Everlasting Crystal Apple, Ultranova, Scroll Potion, and Kings Lens. In no way do these numbers reflect how effective the weapons actually are.

I think you may have gotten the rating system wrong. there are various points that influence the rating of a weapon and to get a 10 there, it has to be a "must have" by all means (i.e. it means that item is terribly overpowered).
Most weapons don't even get nearly as much (with very few exceptions like GBomb) because there usage is by some mean or another limited.
e.g. take suap or gow as example - they're horribly expensive, perfectly expected and easy to counter, hence they don't get a 10.
or as another example take mskull - it's the best single-use freezer out there, but given it's price tag and it's tight area where it's useful (once you surpass the level at which you survive 2 times dual-suap at berzerk while being frozen it's essentially useless as you *need to* mutli-freeze) it won't get a 10 simply because the NP this thing costs would be better invested in HP neggs/potions to give you the last little boost to surpass aforementioned level.

Also, idb keeps ratings/opinions from years ago that aren't accurate to the current metagame and haven't been accurate for many years.

while it does indeed keep all ratings, not all are taken into consideration for the averaged rating in the end - the old ones are there for historical reasons and newcomers who care about the past

anyway, for those curious about why idb is actually down: http://www.webhostin...518#post7535518 (hostrail is/was the hoster of idb)

[LemonSundae]

And is it just me or is battlepedia also down?

[InFeeD]

And is it just me or is battlepedia also down?

I just check, it apeear that not just the battlepedia, the whole TDN is down as well.

Great, now where can we go to check up on all these weapon and potions that act complicatedly

[koobe]

And is it just me or is battlepedia also down?

I just check, it apeear that not just the battlepedia, the whole TDN is down as well.

Great, now where can we go to check up on all these weapon and potions that act complicatedly

FYI, TDN is back online

[Pavement]

lol, people actually think leagues are a good idea? sorry, but a system that encourages and rewards people for keeping a weak pet is misguided.



with a sword for every icon type it's impossible to be prepared for all of them without sacrificing a lot of offensive utility. yeah, you might get lucky and have an opponent use the exact combo that your defensive set blocks perfectly, and have those be their only 2 offensive weapons, but unless you know their set beforehand its blind guesswork. if they happen to be packing anything other than what you predict you lose.

It's not a question of whether or not the league system is a good idea. If you want legitimacy in 2-player battling, then that's currently the only way to play.

There are things called rematches you know... Also, preparing to block all icon types was never a problem. GFD has existed long before the elemental swords and it was never dominant enough to make people think shields were useless.

Anyway, back to my previous point. It's not that hard to prepare your set to come out on top of at least most of the swords. Having a Pteri beats the Air sword. J-ring has always been a good weapon because it could come out on top against PCC, now it also beats SoWL as well as the light sword. Having an FTab takes a respectable chunk out of the fire sword and owns the water sword. That's already 3 slots devoted to beating 5 swords. A bomb and a healer/CBT will take up 2 more slots, leaving you with 3 slots to either deal with earth or find a way to break even with it (PCloud is an excellent choice). As I said before, you're not trying to do turns that "blocks perfectly", you're just trying to have the edge damage-wise.

I think you may have gotten the rating system wrong. there are various points that influence the rating of a weapon and to get a 10 there, it has to be a "must have" by all means (i.e. it means that item is terribly overpowered).
Most weapons don't even get nearly as much (with very few exceptions like GBomb) because there usage is by some mean or another limited.
e.g. take suap or gow as example - they're horribly expensive, perfectly expected and easy to counter, hence they don't get a 10.
or as another example take mskull - it's the best single-use freezer out there, but given it's price tag and it's tight area where it's useful (once you surpass the level at which you survive 2 times dual-suap at berzerk while being frozen it's essentially useless as you *need to* mutli-freeze) it won't get a 10 simply because the NP this thing costs would be better invested in HP neggs/potions to give you the last little boost to surpass aforementioned level.


while it does indeed keep all ratings, not all are taken into consideration for the averaged rating in the end - the old ones are there for historical reasons and newcomers who care about the past

anyway, for those curious about why idb is actually down: http://www.webhostin...518#post7535518 (hostrail is/was the hoster of idb)

I can see your point but you are giving the site credit for something it attempts to do but doesn't do well. You cited three examples from super-inflated, rare weapons (well, GoW not so much). I can understand if users are going to rate those weapons down if most of them will never come in contact with said weapon. Some of the users even do a respectable job of pointing out why these weapons are not the holy grails they've been purported to be. The problem is with weapons like KLens which are just rated low for no reason (it's always been a very good weapon and it's even better now that the elemental swords have been released).

My point was that if you have the np for something like a SAP, KLens or a JWand, and it compliments your set, then such weapons should be considered a 9 or 10 simply because there is nothing else at that price range that is as effective.

That not all averages are taken into consideration is news to me. I'm looking at http://web.archive.o...indepth/id/1303 and it looks like the ratings from years ago are still being counted into the averages.

[DoNotAnnoyMe]

I can see your point but you are giving the site credit for something it attempts to do but doesn't do well. You cited three examples from super-inflated, rare weapons (well, GoW not so much). I can understand if users are going to rate those weapons down if most of them will never come in contact with said weapon. Some of the users even do a respectable job of pointing out why these weapons are not the holy grails they've been purported to be. The problem is with weapons like KLens which are just rated low for no reason (it's always been a very good weapon and it's even better now that the elemental swords have been released).

My point was that if you have the np for something like a SAP, KLens or a JWand, and it compliments your set, then such weapons should be considered a 9 or 10 simply because there is nothing else at that price range that is as effective.

KLens is a good example of a weapon that should have a higher rating imo, indeed, however others disagree as it's still somewhat situational and it's only 50% reflection.
JWand and SAP are such detable ones, again. SAP is surerly better than SuAP and it's pricing is almost sane, but it's usefullness is still questionable imo and it doesn't deserve a 10 simply because it's too easy to counter (good old throw ultra dual-shovel in and you throw back major parts of the whole pea series, gow, ...). it's the heavy earth that makes it seriously lose points as earth is just way too common. (that is even put aside that cove items are terribly rare and expensive and their prices always skyrocket, so they have to be godly to be worth it making them lose points if they aren't)

anyway, if you think the raters miss some points, try to apply as rater and add them in your own ones

That not all averages are taken into consideration is news to me. I'm looking at http://web.archive.o...indepth/id/1303 and it looks like the ratings from years ago are still being counted into the averages.

there was a bug related to rating averaging which is supposedly fixed since a few weeks or a month, don't remember

[InFeeD]

Well, Im sure that these who can afford the weapon that cost 200-300m won't look at the rating anyway.

As there isn't much choices in the absolute top ends.

I would like to think that the rating still serve a good purpose to the general not-so-fuking-rich Bder.