30 replies to this topic

[Therion]

1 was far and away better than 2 and 3. Hayden Christensen should have been punched in the nuts for those movies.

[Volition]

4>5>6>3>2>1
phantom menace was absolute crap.

[frostz]

iargue, on 03 November 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

I honestly like all of the star wars movie. The 3rd one was the worst of the rest, but wasn't terrible.

It was well done, unlike anything Star Trek has ever produced. The only issue is that we had a supposedly badass guy turn into a whiny little bitch and then go to the dark side. That was just lame. He should have turned for another reason, like she left him or something. Not that was he as stupid and emotional as possible.

I cried a little when mace windu died I loved that guy.

What you perceive as whiny is in fact the result of a character who is caught between two choices and is uncertain about how to proceed. Should he remain a jedi and watch his wife die? or should he become a sith and save his wife. (of course we know that he misinterpreted his own foresight but anakin does not know that)

Lets not forget that his personality in episode 3 is a result of his mother being killed and him being unable to save her, despite the fact that he became a jedi in the first place in order to "save his mother" from slavery so to speak. He became paranoid because of this event and it leads him to having conflicting emotions that becomes misinterpreted as being "whiny".

The apparent "baddass" darth vader in the original episodes is a result of what came before. He believed that he lost everything he wanted to protect and thus gave himself completely over to the dark side.

Anakin started going down the path of the sith the day he murdered the sand people who killed his mother, and allowing himself to make an immoral choice like revenge opened up the possibility for him to choose the darker path in the future. He becomes darth vader after believing that he lost everything (his own fault sure, but he was being manipulated by darth sidious one of the most charismatic and powerful sith of all time) and was redeemed by his son in the final episode after watching luke selflessly hold onto the jedi ideals.


This is my opinion but i really don't think your idea that anakin becoming a sith simply because of "she leaving him" would have been a very compelling story. Besides in the end one of the reasons for why he turned anyway was because he thought that "she had turned against him" right before he force choked her. So technically your idea was already somewhat in the movie (even if his wife hadn't really left him and everything was only happening in his head), its just not the central theme of why he started down the path of the sith but rather the culmination of everything that he did.

I wouldn't rank episodes 1,2 and 3 behind 4, 5 , 6 because anakin was not as "badass" as darth vader. The first three episodes were prequels telling us why darth vader is the way he is in episodes 4 5 6 and so they should be treated as such. Anakin cannot be compared with darth vader in that manner and no character starts off bad ass. He must be treated as a story element that bridges the gap between the good anakin with noble intentions and the evil darth vader who gives no thought about morality. That is why episodes 1 2 and 3 are prequels. You simply arn't meant to compare prequel episodes that were meant to show the growth of a character and the originals that depict him as a lord of the dark side established in his evil ways.

Volition, on 04 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

4>5>6>3>2>1
phantom menace was absolute crap.

Phantom menace was not crap, it was necessary as part of a prequel to show anakin's innocence as a child and his motivations for becoming a jedi. You can say jarjar binks is crap and i can't argue with that, but theres nothing wrong with a comedic character given the context of the first episode which is a story about childhood.

Episode 3 shows his decent into darkness and his doubts about himself and his abilities to protect what he thinks is important

And the final episode 6 ties back into episode 1 where the "good" in anakin was brought back by the actions of Luke when he was reminded about who he was and why he became a jedi in the first place. It ties into Episode 3 as well because if he were not inherently prone to being doubtful about the corretness of his own actions and walked the line between light and dark he simply would not have helped luke against palpatine, and consequentially he would not have become a sith in the first place either.

These comparisons between anakin and darth vader makes me think that you guys believe it would be better if anakin were completely confidant of his actions, staunch in the belief that the order of the jedi are in the right, and sure of what he was doing during episodes 1-3 the way darth vader is about the ways of the sith in episodes 4 5 6.

However if this were so and his sense of self were so great and the surety of his actions complete, then Anakin would not have fallen to palpatines manipulations in the first place. There would not be an episode 4 5 and 6, because Anakin would have helped Mace Windu during that attack in Palpatine's office and Palpatine would most likely have been killed..

Edited by frostz, 06 November 2011 - 09:06 AM.

[Volition]

frostz, on 06 November 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

Phantom menace was not crap, it was necessary as part of a prequel to show anakin's innocence as a child and his motivations for becoming a jedi. You can say jarjar binks is crap and i can't argue with that, but theres nothing wrong with a comedic character given the context of the first episode which is a story about childhood.

Episode 3 shows his decent into darkness and his doubts about himself and his abilities to protect what he thinks is important

And the final episode 6 ties back into episode 1 where the "good" in anakin was brought back by the actions of Luke when he was reminded about who he was and why he became a jedi in the first place. It ties into Episode 3 as well because if he were not inherently prone to being doubtful about the corretness of his own actions and walked the line between light and dark he simply would not have helped luke against palpatine, and consequentially he would not have become a sith in the first place either.

These comparisons between anakin and darth vader makes me think that you guys believe it would be better if anakin were completely confidant of his actions, staunch in the belief that the order of the jedi are in the right, and sure of what he was doing during episodes 1-3 the way darth vader is about the ways of the sith in episodes 4 5 6.

However if this were so and his sense of self were so great and the surety of his actions complete, then Anakin would not have fallen to palpatines manipulations in the first place. There would not be an episode 4 5 and 6, because Anakin would have helped Mace Windu during that attack in Palpatine's office and Palpatine would most likely have been killed..

I felt that like half of anakin's dialogue was superifical, I get the establishment of his innocence, but sometimes the dialogue went too far and made the whole thing sound stupid. Also, what is this midi-chlorians bullshit, the force was supposed to be spiritual, not some organism in your cells.

Edited by Volition, 06 November 2011 - 10:11 AM.

[frostz]

Volition, on 06 November 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

I felt that like half of anakin's dialogue was superifical, I get the establishment of his innocence, but sometimes the dialogue went too far and made the whole thing sound stupid. Also, what is this midi-chlorians bullshit, the force was supposed to be spiritual, not some organism in your cells.

midichlorians while not officially talked about until phantom menace, have been hinted at in novels etc and the idea was around since 1977

http://starwars.wiki...i/Midi-chlorian
scroll down to behind the scenes.

So its not exactly an entirely random invention or retcon for the sake of plot device

Edited by frostz, 06 November 2011 - 10:30 AM.

[willy101]

Of course the midichlorian idea had been tossed around but the original trilogy had been much more akin to Hindu lore. The force was essentially karmic power manifested. People were pissed when he made a large deviation from that lore.