119 replies to this topic

[iargue]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

^Everyone.

Your telling me that if VIACOM tried to say that your somehow directly profiting from programs that use code directly from their copyrighted website that they could not get your self sued. MANY websites neo cheating based have been shut down by their hosting companies.Just for this reason.person experience

Viacom can claim anything that they want. We don't profit from anything by them. We profit from our own code, and our programs do nothing more then what a browser does. If we where illegal, then so would Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer.

They have no basis at all to shut us down. Even if our hosting company was retarded enough to shut us down, a court order and counter suit against Viacom would earn use more money then we ever did from running the site.

[Sweeney]

*popcorn*

[supertrap]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

You think that allowing the word "other" as a alternative for buying and selling neopoints for US curency would hold up against the VIACOM lawyers.

iargue, on 22 January 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Viacom can claim anything that they want. We don't profit from anything by them. We profit from our own code, and our programs do nothing more then what a browser does. If we where illegal, then so would Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer.

Do you even understand what your implying.
We are talking about the same universe right?

[Rainie]

._.

Waser Lave, on 22 January 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Cheating on Neopets isn't against the law, it's only against their own rules so the most they can do is to freeze your account as long as you aren't breaking any actual laws.

[Waser Lave]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Do you even understand what your implying.
We are talking about the same universe right?

Our trading rules clearly state that users aren't allowed to trade for USD or any other real currency. We aren't responsible for what our users do off-site.

[supertrap]

Rainie, on 22 January 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

._.

History disagrees.
Neopets is a trademarked name. You offer neopets cheat programs accessable by paying money.
As well as allow the trade of neopets digital copyrighted material for USD. There might be some grey areas, but viacoms lawyers will eat them alive.

Waser Lave, on 22 January 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Our trading rules clearly state that users aren't allowed to trade for USD or any other real currency. We aren't responsible for what our users do off-site.

That argument might work against runescape. NOT VIACOM.
Other is a name this site recognizes as USD>

[iargue]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

History disagrees.
Neopets is a trademarked name. You offer neopets cheat programs accessable by paying money.
As well as allow the trade of neopets digital copyrighted material for USD. There might be some grey areas, but viacoms lawyers will eat them alive.



That argument might work against runescape. NOT VIACOM.
Other is a name this site recognizes as USD>

No. Other is what other people recognize for whatever the hell they want to.

According to our rules, we do not allow people to trade for USD. We have upheld that rule 100%. Topics and posts that ask for USD are removed, just like other sites remove copyright things when people post them against the rules.

Further more, no trading occurs on site at all. All trading happens offsite at the users discretion.

[Waser Lave]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

History disagrees.
Neopets is a trademarked name. You offer neopets cheat programs accessable by paying money.
As well as allow the trade of neopets digital copyrighted material for USD. There might be some grey areas, but viacoms lawyers will eat them alive.



That argument might work against runescape. NOT VIACOM.
Other is a name this site recognizes as USD>

I guess we're fortunate that the US legal system tends to work on actual laws and facts rather than hypothetical situations and laws which only you seem to believe exist.

[ShadowLink64]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

^Everyone.

Your telling me that if VIACOM tried to say that your somehow directly profiting from programs that use code directly from their copyrighted website that they could not get your self sued. MANY websites neo cheating based have been shut down by their hosting companies.Just for this reason.person experience

You think that allowing the word "other" as a alternative for buying and selling neopoints for US curency would hold up against the VIACOM lawyers.

We've been served a legal letter in the past, but nothing much happened because we complied with the stuff that they really had a beef about. I would say that we're still around mostly because of us staying under the radar, and them being extremely apathetic.

[Waser Lave]

ShadowLink64, on 22 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

We've been served a legal letter in the past, but nothing much happened because we complied with the stuff that they really had a beef about. I would say that we're still around mostly because of us staying under the radar, and them being extremely apathetic.

That letter wasn't actually about our services though.

[ShadowLink64]

Waser Lave, on 22 January 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

That letter wasn't actually about our services though.

I still think they were trying to lump us in with the services they had a complaint about though, since they referenced our copyright disclaimer at the bottom of the forum. It was just a fail because it was poorly worded and so the host re-enabled our account.

[supertrap]

let me paraphrase my argument because obviously people dont read entire topics all the time.


We all know that the word "other" means USD. Now. this may be basis for a debate. But a debate that in all honestly we would most likely loose to the giant corporate giant.
This transaction of neopets currency for USD has been basis for the shutdown of very popular neopets cheating websites before. Ones that make too much noise and too much money.
Not to mention the use of neopets tradmarked material such as restock lists etc plus the distribution of cheating programs. Vieacom has plenty of footing to make some pretty serious threats, enought threats that hydro would consider shutting down the site. Maybe not. But the chance is always there. Codex hasnt always been so laxed about certain rules, and maybe when TNT made their big campaign against cheating, codex was private enough to go under the radar. But believe me, if they decided to be alot less laxed about security and decide that sites like this are hurting the neopets name in any way(basically if most forms of cheating become detremental enough for the site) then viacom could make some major threats.

IM NOT ON THEIR SIDE, AND IF YOU THINK THAT INVISI THIS TOPIC WOULD BE SMART THEN DO IT. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO DECIDE TO CRACK THE WHIP AGAIN.

Edited by supertrap, 22 January 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[Waser Lave]

Since when are restock lists trademarked? lol. Our price data is uniquely ours, is created using our own pricing algorithms and therefore they are our intellectual property alone.

[supertrap]

ShadowLink64, on 22 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

We've been served a legal letter in the past, but nothing much happened because we complied with the stuff that they really had a beef about. I would say that we're still around mostly because of us staying under the radar, and them being extremely apathetic.

This is exactly my argument.

Waser Lave, on 22 January 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Since when are restock lists trademarked? lol. Our price data is uniquely ours, is created using our own pricing algorithms and therefore they are our intellectual property alone.

The names arent/ Im not a legal expert, but I think that would be a hard claim to make.

iargue, on 22 January 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

No. Other is what other people recognize for whatever the hell they want to.

According to our rules, we do not allow people to trade for USD. We have upheld that rule 100%. Topics and posts that ask for USD are removed, just like other sites remove copyright things when people post them against the rules.

Further more, no trading occurs on site at all. All trading happens offsite at the users discretion.

Once again, a hard claim to make in a court against Viacom.

[Waser Lave]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

The names arent/ Im not a legal expert, but I think that would be a hard claim to make.

We don't make any claim to the names of any Neopets items... Neopets information such as item names and images can be used by anybody because Neopets' T&C grants a license to use and display them. Our price data has nothing to do with them though because it is generated by our own unique algorithms.

[ShadowLink64]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

let me paraphrase my argument because obviously people dont read entire topics all the time.


We all know that the word "other" means USD. Now. this may be basis for a debate. But a debate that in all honestly we would most likely loose to the giant corporate giant.
This transaction of neopets currency for USD has been basis for the shutdown of very popular neopets cheating websites before. Ones that make too much noise and too much money.
Not to mention the use of neopets tradmarked material such as restock lists etc plus the distribution of cheating programs. Vieacom has plenty of footing to make some pretty serious threats, enought threats that hydro would consider shutting down the site. Maybe not. But the chance is always there. Codex hasnt always been so laxed about certain rules, and maybe when TNT made their big campaign against cheating, codex was private enough to go under the radar. But believe me, if they decided to be alot less laxed about security and decide that sites like this are hurting the neopets name in any way(basically if most forms of cheating become detremental enough for the site) then viacom could make some major threats.

IM NOT ON THEIR SIDE, AND IF YOU THINK THAT INVISI THIS TOPIC WOULD BE SMART THEN DO IT. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO DECIDE TO CRACK THE WHIP AGAIN.

You went from talking about cheat programs, to USD trading on the boards. Do you even know what you are arguing?

The cheat programs are perfectly fine. We're not infringing on any intellectual property, because of our programs automatically visiting like a browser would. We do not use a single line of Neopets' proprietary code in our own systems, and we use their images on the same terms as any other fan site. If they don't like us using their images, we'd be more than happy to remove them.

As for USD trading, we officially don't allow it. If people try and sneak around this, and if they don't get caught by us, then fine (though notice that we're not trying too hard). However, if we were to receive a complaint about this with some evidence, our host would probably give us the opportunity to rectify the situation in some way, so I doubt the entire site would get killed off just because of this.

[supertrap]

ShadowLink64, on 22 January 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

You went from talking about cheat programs, to USD trading on the boards. Do you even know what you are arguing?

The cheat programs are perfectly fine. We're not infringing on any intellectual property, because of our programs automatically visiting like a browser would. We do not use a single line of Neopets' proprietary code in our own systems, and we use their images on the same terms as any other fan site. If they don't like us using their images, we'd be more than happy to remove them.

As for USD trading, we officially don't allow it. If people try and sneak around this, and if they don't get caught by us, then fine (though notice that we're not trying too hard). However, if we were to receive a complaint about this with some evidence, our host would probably give us the opportunity to rectify the situation in some way, so I doubt the entire site would get killed off just because of this.

So you. Shadowlink. Are trying to say that if Viacom tried their hardest with all their legal leverage to bring down codex they couldn't find a way to?

ShadowLink64, on 22 January 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

You went from talking about cheat programs, to USD trading on the boards. Do you even know what you are arguing?

try rereading my post, I think its pretty self explanatory. Basic deduction skills might be necessary but not nothing i dont think you would have trouble with. Multiple points on one post isnt that advanced.

Edited by supertrap, 22 January 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[Waser Lave]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

So you. Shadowlink. Are trying to say that if Viacom tried their hardest with all their legal leverage to bring down codex they couldn't find a way to?

You could say the same about any relatively small website against any multinational corporation. It's all hypothetical though...

[Sweeney]

You know, to talk down to people like that, you really ought to have a little firmer footing.

[supertrap]

Biased thoughts aside, I think all intelligent people here know that what SL himself has said "survived by flying under the radar" is true. And I think we all hope it to continue to be true, but without drastic changes, theres always a chance that we might not always be this lucky.

Waser Lave, on 22 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

You could say the same about any relatively small website against any multinational corporation. It's all hypothetical though...

Sure, but the logical most likely outcome if the corporation attacked any of the small sites is still the same

[Elindoril]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Biased thoughts aside, I think all intelligent people here know that what SL himself has said "survived by flying under the radar" is true. And I think we all hope it to continue to be true, but without drastic changes, theres always a chance that we might not always be this lucky.

Considering how long the site has been around already (7 or 8? years), I'll assume we'll close down way before Viacom gets to us.

[supertrap]

Sweeney, on 22 January 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

You know, to talk down to people like that, you really ought to have a little firmer footing.

He started the negativity with the "do you even know what your arguing about"comment.
Im not one to cause trouble, but not one to be talked down to neither.

Edited by supertrap, 22 January 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Waser Lave]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

He started the negativity with the "do you even know what your arguing about"comment.
Im not one to cause trouble, but not one to be talked down to neither.

What is your actual argument btw? Are you suggesting we need to change something?

[ShadowLink64]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

So you. Shadowlink. Are trying to say that if Viacom tried their hardest with all their legal leverage to bring down codex they couldn't find a way to?

No, supertrap, that is not what I am saying. Of course they would be able to.

I'm saying they probably won't use all of their legal leverage, because if they do decide to take action, it will be to raise complaints here and there that we will end up complying with.

[Sweeney]

supertrap, on 22 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

He started the negativity with the "do you even know what your arguing about"comment.
Im not one to cause trouble, but not one to be talked down to neither.

Your arguments are disjointed, ill-considered and shallow. There's really nothing that you can say to make yourself look like less of a muppet.

That is why you're spoken to as you are.