18 replies to this topic

[soul__stealer]

I'm sure at some stage, a majority of users here who play neopets have either;
a) Scammed
b) Stolen an account / pet / item
c) Been a victim of a scam

For scammers however, there is a new deterrent that we here at Codex should look at pushing in some cases (ie people who get banned and continue to return after scamming).
The Dutch Supreme court has upheld a conviction of a youth who stole online, virtual items from another youth in online game Runescape. It was basically argued by the courts, that the items had intrinsic value to the victim due to time and effort he may have put into originally obtaining the items.

Ok... I lied... As the article states, it's not actually new, but it's not something that people push/take to court very often either. But for those who had even considered scamming, let this be a lesson to you all... you can be held accountable for your actions.


Read the article here then discuss it in this thread.

[Sida]

It's a bit different when a knife is held to the kids throat so he'll log in "This guy stole my item that I cheated to obtain anyway!" probably wouldn't go down as well

I think the first case of online gaming property theft being dealt with and passed in court was some game where people actually pay and earn real currency, and some guy ripped off the designs of a woman's swords that she'd been making. Something like that.

[ZERO]

Sure the person just stole a few pixels on the Internet, but think of the time someone invested in earning those achievements and items on the game. The real crime here is stealing one's time and effort.

[Unseen]

ZERO, on 01 February 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Sure the person just stole a few pixels on the Internet, but think of the time someone invested in earning those achievements and items on the game. The real crime here is stealing one's time and effort.

Theoretically, objects in a game also contain code and such put into it. You could argue it was intellectual property made object being transferred from a well earned individual over to someone else. Not just some pixels.

[Sida]

Unseen, on 01 February 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Theoretically, objects in a game also contain code and such put into it. You could argue it was intellectual property made object being transferred from a well earned individual over to someone else. Not just some pixels.

The problem with that is the items are actually the property of the game creator. No matter how much time he put into getting them, he never actually owned them.

[Junsu]

soul__stealer, on 01 February 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

I'm sure at some stage, a majority of users here who play neopets have either;
a) Scammed
b) Stolen an account / pet / item
c) Been a victim of a scam

REPRESENTING THE MINORITY!



OT: They should just make it like Korean Maplestory where you have to register with your Korean Social Security Number ^___^

[onlyme]

for some reason when i saw this thread title i expected someone is happy talking about how he goes to jail. yes i had someone special in mind. no, not gonna say...

[Kats]

I read the title and thought of this

[Yung]

The only thing I have to add is in regard to everyone saying that this stuff is all just pixels...

All of us are here because of these pixels, they all hold value to us. For me personally it is the Battledome and a few select pets and other interesting items. I love the Battledome aspect of Neopets and these pixels hold some of the highest retaining value site wide. Another popular set of items is Stamps. They are a little slow to sell but still worth the investment as many who play are wanting them to add to their collection. For us the value in Stamps is that they can make a shell look much more like a main. When someone sees an Album is filled with 450+ stamps they say okay well this person has invested some time collecting all of those. They must play more than it appears and must be focused on playing some smaller aspect of the site to make their neopoints or they restock. One look at our shops indicate that we restock.

My point is, pixels or not these are still things that we put value in as I know the majority of us have purchased these pixels with real money. Many of us have also sold these pixels for money. These pixels do in fact hold value to us and having them stolen from us causes grief. Not as much as legit players but it is still frustrating when it does occur.

[Unseen]

Sida, on 01 February 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

The problem with that is the items are actually the property of the game creator. No matter how much time he put into getting them, he never actually owned them.

So you could say, it's a violation of transfer. The thief never qualified for the required demands of the developer, or exchanged an object(s) of equal effots.

[Waser Lave]

Alternatively, we also have the option to collect all the personal information on a scammer that we can find and include that in their public banning thread as well as contacting their ISP, parents (if applicable) and local police (in extreme circumstances). In a recent scamming case that threat seemed to change the scammer's mind when everything else had failed and they eventually decided to pay back their victims.

[Yung]

Waser Lave, on 01 February 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

Alternatively, we also have the option to collect all the personal information on a scammer that we can find and include that in their public banning thread as well as contacting their ISP, parents (if applicable) and local police (in extreme circumstances). In a recent scamming case that threat seemed to change the scammer's mind when everything else had failed and they eventually decided to pay back their victims.

Still waiting for said results.

[Waser Lave]

Yung, on 01 February 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

Still waiting for said results.

Well your demands meant that you couldn't be repaid straight away otherwise it would have been sorted by now.

[punkrockbigmouth]

Waser Lave, on 01 February 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

Alternatively, we also have the option to collect all the personal information on a scammer that we can find and include that in their public banning thread as well as contacting their ISP, parents (if applicable) and local police (in extreme circumstances). In a recent scamming case that threat seemed to change the scammer's mind when everything else had failed and they eventually decided to pay back their victims.

Oh god, you can ban me, you can tell the police, you can cut off a pinkie if you'd like... but for the love of all that is holy PLEASE PLEASE don't tell my mom!

[Waser Lave]

punkrockbigmouth, on 01 February 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

Oh god, you can ban me, you can tell the police, you can cut off a pinkie if you'd like... but for the love of all that is holy PLEASE PLEASE don't tell my mom!

Behave yourself then.

[iargue]

Sida, on 01 February 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

The problem with that is the items are actually the property of the game creator. No matter how much time he put into getting them, he never actually owned them.

And if you are leasing a car, and someone steals it from you.You still report it stolen, and he still gets in trouble. Just because you don't own the items, you are still the only one allowed to access/use them, and thus its your ownership by definition. TNT can take away that ownership whenever they want to though, no one else can.

Also, I'm sure a judge would rule against that saying for any game that you pay for.

[Sweeney]

iargue, on 01 February 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

And if you are leasing a car, and someone steals it from you.You still report it stolen, and he still gets in trouble. Just because you don't own the items, you are still the only one allowed to access/use them, and thus its your ownership by definition. TNT can take away that ownership whenever they want to though, no one else can.

This is a terrible example.
In the "car theft" allegory, even though the dealership owned the car, the contractee had sole access. When it was stolen, only the thief had access, denying it to the dealership and the contractee.
In cases of online theft, the "dealership" (the developer) still has the access. The company that actually owns the property hasn't lost anything, and there's no actual contractual obligation for the "rightful" user to access that property.

[ZERO]

Yung, on 01 February 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

The only thing I have to add is in regard to everyone saying that this stuff is all just pixels...

All of us are here because of these pixels, they all hold value to us. For me personally it is the Battledome and a few select pets and other interesting items. I love the Battledome aspect of Neopets and these pixels hold some of the highest retaining value site wide. Another popular set of items is Stamps. They are a little slow to sell but still worth the investment as many who play are wanting them to add to their collection. For us the value in Stamps is that they can make a shell look much more like a main. When someone sees an Album is filled with 450+ stamps they say okay well this person has invested some time collecting all of those. They must play more than it appears and must be focused on playing some smaller aspect of the site to make their neopoints or they restock. One look at our shops indicate that we restock.

My point is, pixels or not these are still things that we put value in as I know the majority of us have purchased these pixels with real money. Many of us have also sold these pixels for money. These pixels do in fact hold value to us and having them stolen from us causes grief. Not as much as legit players but it is still frustrating when it does occur.

Not everyone said it was just a bunch of pixels, it was only me. I did not intend to diminish the importance of your achievements and....pets. Im just merely pointing out the fact that the crime here could be theft of time and effort and in some cases money. Im not sure if Neopets charges money for some services now, I haven't played the game for years. But I can hardly see legal action being taken over something like stealing on Neopets or Maplestory. Im sure it does happen, I just find it silly I guess. There should be an adequate amount of action taken on the site's administrators as well as the party who was caught to reimburse the affected account. Sadly that is not the world we live in.

[Sida]

Sweeney, on 01 February 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

This is a terrible example.
In the "car theft" allegory, even though the dealership owned the car, the contractee had sole access. When it was stolen, only the thief had access, denying it to the dealership and the contractee.
In cases of online theft, the "dealership" (the developer) still has the access. The company that actually owns the property hasn't lost anything, and there's no actual contractual obligation for the "rightful" user to access that property.

Thanks. Saved me the trouble.