14 replies to this topic

[redlion]

Many of you may have seen the official response on Facebook to official inquiries as to their privacy policies and advertising standards. There was a memorable video with a likeable yet homely indian girl reading almost word for word the text on the same page. This sparked a lot of interest in privacy concerns, data mining, and the like.

So while browsing I ran across this website, run by TRUSTe.

Included in their very informative and simple site is the option to opt out of various 'behavioral advertising' companies, who can and will mine your personal data to present ads more likely to make them money. My intention is to scare you. A whole, whole lot. This technology is easy to use and, from the list of companies using it, vastly more widespread than just Facebook.

I'm going to spend the next hour or so researching this topic, so I can hopefully come back to enlighten some of you on the dangers of this new development. Long gone are ads like "Thanks Mean Joe" or the Budweiser frogs. Now they're coming into your internets and data mining the shit outa you.

Hide ur kids, hide ur wife.

[supertrap]

Your the only person who's posts dont make me want to smack them with a dead, frozen fish.

I love fish. the only reason why I bother with this site.

[Xexist]

redlion, on 01 February 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Many of you may have seen the official response on Facebook to official inquiries as to their privacy policies and advertising standards. There was a memorable video with a likeable yet homely indian girl reading almost word for word the text on the same page. This sparked a lot of interest in privacy concerns, data mining, and the like.

So while browsing I ran across this website, run by TRUSTe.

Included in their very informative and simple site is the option to opt out of various 'behavioral advertising' companies, who can and will mine your personal data to present ads more likely to make them money. My intention is to scare you. A whole, whole lot. This technology is easy to use and, from the list of companies using it, vastly more widespread than just Facebook.

I'm going to spend the next hour or so researching this topic, so I can hopefully come back to enlighten some of you on the dangers of this new development. Long gone are ads like "Thanks Mean Joe" or the Budweiser frogs. Now they're coming into your internets and data mining the shit outa you.

Hide ur kids, hide ur wife.

Well, I know I wont be receiving Megaupload ads. Im not sure what else they could find out from me. Advertising free downloads and pirated music/video/games?

[Random]

Data mining isn't really that big of a deal. The process itself isn't malicious.

Companies use programs and applications that they have in order to sift through huge amounts of data that the human analyst wouldn't be able to process on his own. Sure, they get deeper links between certain pieces of information that may lead to better advertising, but they're not doing anything wrong.

If you get a company that acquires data in malicious ways, then yeah, it's a problem; but, it's not one that is caused by data mining. It's caused by privacy issues.

[Waser Lave]

Don't bash data mining, that's actually a harmless and very interesting subject in and of itself. Things like using tracking cookies and even ISP-level behavioural advertising can be pretty serious invasions of privacy though (you should look at the technology behind companies like Phorm).

[redlion]

Random, on 01 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Companies use programs and applications that they have in order to sift through huge amounts of data that the human analyst wouldn't be able to process on his own. Sure, they get deeper links between certain pieces of information that may lead to better advertising,

If you get a company that acquires data in malicious ways, then yeah, it's a problem; but, it's not one that is caused by data mining. It's caused by privacy issues.

You're sort of confusing the point though. Acquiring personal data about mass amounts of people is, most of the time, innately malicious. It's an invasion of those people's privacy. No one signed a release before using Facebook that allows FB to sell users' personal data to third parties, or 'share' it with the same parties in exchange for advertising contracts. T&Cs, EULs and the like don't document such use. If they did, at least one person would read it and alert the user-base.

And even if these companies did state up front that they were going to mine your personal data, Facebook is populated by a large number of teens, tweens, and children, as well as lazy adults who aren't going to read the TOS. While I would agree that it is not FB's responsibility to bounce those users that are too young to join legitimately (Codex's use form is likewise routinely subverted), I think it's rather head-in-the-sand thinking for them not to acknowledge the privacy concerns here.

People lie. A lot. Especially on the internet. Especially about their age and looks. Advertising based on user input is silly for those very simple reasons.

[Random]

redlion, on 01 February 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

You're sort of confusing the point though. Acquiring personal data about mass amounts of people is, most of the time, innately malicious. It's an invasion of those people's privacy. No one signed a release before using Facebook that allows FB to sell users' personal data to third parties, or 'share' it with the same parties in exchange for advertising contracts. T&Cs, EULs and the like don't document such use. If they did, at least one person would read it and alert the user-base.

And even if these companies did state up front that they were going to mine your personal data, Facebook is populated by a large number of teens, tweens, and children, as well as lazy adults who aren't going to read the TOS. While I would agree that it is not FB's responsibility to bounce those users that are too young to join legitimately (Codex's use form is likewise routinely subverted), I think it's rather head-in-the-sand thinking for them not to acknowledge the privacy concerns here.

People lie. A lot. Especially on the internet. Especially about their age and looks. Advertising based on user input is silly for those very simple reasons.

They don't have to state that they are mining your data. The data that you give them is what is being mined. They state that they are going to be collecting the information that you give them.

Obviously sometimes they violate privacy agreements. Facebook got brought up on charges for that a bit ago and was forced to change some things as well as agree to fines if they violate certain policies in the future. This doesn't really have anything to do with data mining though, other than that this data will be mined.


Using the information that you've signed off rights to in order for companies to find better insights into what you will buy is not a violation of your privacy. A company collecting your data in a way that violates your privacy is. Additionally, advertising based on user input is not silly for those reason. Granted, there are people that lie, but even so, there is a huge amount of people that don't. These companies wouldn't be looking into these kinds of things if it wasn't profitable for them to do so.

[redlion]

Random, on 01 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

They don't have to state that they are mining your data. The data that you give them is what is being mined. They state that they are going to be collecting the information that you give them.

They don't have to state that they are mining my data, but they state that they're collecting my information? Contradictory much? Besides, they don't state that they collect user information. Replacing mining with collecting doesn't make it right either.

Random, on 01 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Obviously sometimes they violate privacy agreements. Facebook got brought up on charges for that a bit ago and was forced to change some things as well as agree to fines if they violate certain policies in the future. This doesn't really have anything to do with data mining though, other than that this data will be mined.

Did I use data mining in the title? Because I'm pretty sure I mentioned it twice, once in passing and once in a slightly facetious manner. Yes, I'm concerned by data mining, but I'm more concerned by the fact that after the ad companies' computer programs learn every interest and job I've had, they try to parse this into something that they can sell me.

Random, on 01 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Using the information that you've signed off rights to in order for companies to find better insights into what you will buy is not a violation of your privacy. A company collecting your data in a way that violates your privacy is. Additionally, advertising based on user input is not silly for those reason. Granted, there are people that lie, but even so, there is a huge amount of people that don't. These companies wouldn't be looking into these kinds of things if it wasn't profitable for them to do so.

The point I'm trying to make is that these companies rarely seek your signature, approval, or acceptance before mining data for advertising purposes. And if they do, it's buried in a TOS or EULA in subsection J of section 14 in 8-point font.

Of course it's profitable - there are plenty of people that don't lie. But regardless of whether or not the user lies, it's wrong to violate someone's privacy and try to guess what they would want to buy by their interests.

[punkrockbigmouth]

I read a fictional book about something like this called "Feed" In it, the girl decides to fuck with her feed, making it think she was interested in some things she wasn't, and then switching her opinion, so it didn't know how to cater to her.

Spoiler

She becomes a mindless vegetable in the end, unable to move when her feed goes haywire. Then again, all the people still connected to the feed are mindless drones anyway.

This happens with my mother's bankcard. Whenever she buys stuff at the pharmacy, it knows to print coupons for her preferred line of haircolor. How does it know she uses Clairol's Nice & Easy? I've always wondered.

[redlion]

punkrockbigmouth, on 01 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I read a fictional book about something like this called "Feed" In it, the girl decides to fuck with her feed, making it think she was interested in some things she wasn't, and then switching her opinion, so it didn't know how to cater to her.

Spoiler

She becomes a mindless vegetable in the end, unable to move when her feed goes haywire. Then again, all the people still connected to the feed are mindless drones anyway.

This happens with my mother's bankcard. Whenever she buys stuff at the pharmacy, it knows to print coupons for her preferred line of haircolor. How does it know she uses Clairol's Nice & Easy? I've always wondered.

At least it's offering coupons with (presumably) discounts.

All I get on facebook is ads saying "certify to teach taekwondo in as little as two weeks!" Too bad I'm already certified, and I wouldn't want some rinky dink cert anyway. My cert took me full on years to earn. Every time I see those ads it cheapens what I've accomplished. Not to mention I seem to have used up my allotment of down votes for facebook ads. What can I say? They all suck.

Not that this thread is specifically about my ads on facebook or anything. Just a recurring example.

[Sida]

They want to send me advertisements that I might find interesting, I don't see the problem. It's not like they're making my mouse click them. If you use Gmail a lot, check the ads there. They're based on the words found inside your mails.

[Random]

This argument isn't going to go anywhere because neither of us will budge. I'm respectfully removing myself.

[Freidmont]

The quantity of information that these companies know about me frightens me a lot. I removed my Facebook a few years ago because of their poor privacy policies, and I use services such as Scroogle and Ixquick instead of Google search (though I still use Gmail). The push to put all your information in the cloud is chilling, especially since most of these companies are based in the US where our constitutional rights to privacy and due process of law are being whittled away at an alarming rate.

Edit: I don't remember who said it, but this quote came to mind:
"If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold."

Edited by Freidmont, 05 February 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[iargue]

I prefer ads catered to what I like, rather then random ads about stupid bullshit.

Its much better to see an ad about something I actually care about, then about lady hygiene.

[Sweeney]

iargue, on 06 February 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Its much better to see an ad about something I actually care about, then about lady hygiene.

I realise that this is unintentionally funny, possibly for reasons you don't even understand, but it's a beautiful sentence.