99 replies to this topic

[Adam]

Yeah. Didn't think so.

Oh right, I forgot to answer back to your waste of sperm and egg troll looking ass. I googled "how to change my firm belief that abortion is wrong in which has not only been drilled into my head but also after careful consideration I will fully stand by no matter what some crumpt eating and tea drinking asshead continues to try to challenge." And yes I searched for that same exact run on sentence in an attempt to utilize as many searchable words as possible. I didn't find anything useful, so as I stated before. Please educate me as to how abortion cant be considered murder in certain peoples eyes. I've done my research in years before when this was a confusing topic for me. If you can show me something that will change my mind and that I haven't read already, pleasething that will change my mind and that I haven't read already, please do. also as a final point, why do i need to rationalize my beliefs to you? i dont care about what you have to say, its the way i was brought up and my views and opionions are just that, mine. it has taken me some time to accept that being gay is okay, it may not be my cup of tea and but its no longer completely grotesque in my eyes. but i will firmly belive that marriage is for 1 man and 1 woman. a civil union which would allow same sex couples to recieve an exact copy of the beefits married couples recieve is perfectly plausable in my eyes. hop off because unfortunatly for you, my dick isnt yours to ride.

Edited by Adam, 06 April 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[Sweeney]

Oh right, I forgot to answer back to your waste of sperm and egg troll looking ass.

If you're going to insult me, you could at least have the courtesy to punctuate it into readability.

I googled "how to change my firm belief that abortion is wrong in which has not only been drilled into my head but also after careful consideration I will fully stand by no matter what some crumpt eating and tea drinking asshead continues to try to challenge." And yes I searched for that same exact run on sentence in an attempt to utilize as many searchable words as possible.

Did you think that searching for a facetious search term helps your argument?
Again, you're just demonstrating your immaturity, and inability to construct a rational argument for your belief.
For reference, the search term "is abortion murder" brings up a decent selection of pages of both sides of the argument.

I didn't find anything useful, so as I stated before.

This is a sentence fragment. Perhaps a colon would have better suited your purposes?

Please educate me as to how abortion cant be considered murder in certain peoples eyes.

I can't argue that. I can argue that it shouldn't be considered thus, but you're a shining example of the fact that it can, regardless of fact.

I've done my research in years before when this was a confusing topic for me. If you can show me something that will change my mind and that I haven't read already, pleasething that will change my mind and that I haven't read already, please do.

*blink*
Impressive typo.

Really, though, it's not a matter of showing you things you haven't seen before. It comes down to you being able to rationally assess the evidence and make a decision unimpeded by emotional concern.
For a start, though, why don't you give me a definition of murder that you accept as true, and we can work from there.

also as a final point, why do i need to rationalize my beliefs to you? i dont care about what you have to say, its the way i was brought up and my views and opionions are just that, mine.

The fact that your opinions are yours, and a result of your upbringing, is irrelevant. That doesn't make them right.
Indeed, if the only defense you can muster is "It's how I was brought up", then your opinion is virtually worthless.

it has taken me some time to accept that being gay is okay, it may not be my cup of tea and but its no longer completely grotesque in my eyes.

Well done. You're now at the stage where decent human beings begin.

but i will firmly belive that marriage is for 1 man and 1 woman.

Why?

a civil union which would allow same sex couples to recieve an exact copy of the beefits married couples recieve is perfectly plausable in my eyes.

"Separate but equal". Heard of that before?
Something to do with keeping those damn niggers off my bus, I think.

hop off because unfortunatly for you, my dick isnt yours to ride.

Bless.

After all that, you still haven't outlined your arguments for why you believe abortion is murder. Unless you can explain why that is your belief, there's not a lot I can do to set you straight.

[Dazz]

I googled "how to change my firm belief that abortion is wrong in which has not only been drilled into my head but also after careful consideration I will fully stand by no matter what some crumpt eating and tea drinking asshead continues to try to challenge."

Woah hold on a sec, no need for the english insults. Crumpets are delicious, and tea is arguably one of the best beverages yet you're using them to demean someone? Without tea what the hell would you dunk your biscuits in? You can call someone an asshat, but calling someone a tea drinking asshat is crossing the line you coffee drinking bastard!

Spoiler

[luvsmyncis]

In America we dunk our cookies in milk. Or sometimes straight into Hershey's Chocolate Syrup.

[Nymh]

I somehow missed the point where this changed from a fun chit-chat thread about homos to a heated argument about abortion

I'm with Red Chaos (who I thought was Derriere for a minute because of the avatar, whoops sorry). Of course here in the south we drink sweet cold tea most of the time, but I do so enjoy my hot tea as well.

[Turnip]

I somehow missed the point where this changed from a fun chit-chat thread about homos to a heated argument about abortion

I'm with Red Chaos (who I thought was Derriere for a minute because of the avatar, whoops sorry). Of course here in the south we drink sweet cold tea most of the time, but I do so enjoy my hot tea as well.

Mmmmnnf I love love love iced tea! Iced coffee is delicious too, especially vanilla!!


Also you should totally come over here to the UK and have a proper cup of tea ♥ There's just something about the water in America that makes tea taste... weird D:

[trizzle]

Mmmmnnf I love love love iced tea! Iced coffee is delicious too, especially vanilla!!


Also you should totally come over here to the UK and have a proper cup of tea ♥ There's just something about the water in America that makes tea taste... weird D:

*nods* I agree 12000%

[EveMazing]

The fact that your opinions are yours, and a result of your upbringing, is irrelevant. That doesn't make them right.
Indeed, if the only defense you can muster is "It's how I was brought up", then your opinion is virtually worthless.

Yeah seriously. You shouldn't still be basing all your opinions and beliefs on how you were raised and what your "upbringing" was. Form your own opinions, ones not based on what your parents made you believe. I was brought up Christian by my mother and my father is Catholic but at a very young age (I was in the second grade when I stopped believing in God) I realized I didn't have to follow either of their beliefs and instead I could go my own way and decide for myself what I believe in.

Edited by EveMazing, 06 April 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Adam]

For some reason my Sidekick 4g doesn't agree with the forums very well and the cursor hops around sometimes while I'm trying to type. Then I can't move the cursor around to where I need it and delete botched sentences, or in a few cases, fragments.

As for you correcting my grammar, there's an ancient saying that goes, "When losing an argument, always correct the other persons grammar." Congratulations on continuing to fulfill that age old saying. Also if I might add, I said in previous paragraphs that I've done my research and looked at both sides of the argument on abortion. I was raised to believe in the bible and I have decided to pick and choose what I want to apply to my every day life. One lesson that I've learned is that life is precious, and I know that to many people, life begins at different times in the gestation period. I personally believe that life begins at conception. When the body(at this time the 'body' I'm referring to is when the sperm fertilizes the egg) and soul come together is when in my eyes life begins. This is a completely different subject from the topic. I am challenging you, Sweeney, to send me a link that will change my view. I am not easily swayed but as I said before, I used to be 100% anti homosexual. I used to think 'they' were abominations and outcasts, and I have personally come a long way on the subject. I want you to edjucate me seeing as you've decided to butt heads with my morals.

[Averssion]

Woop, gay pride (I'm only half gay, though ;D haha - though I think the correct term is bisexual.)

There's a whole argument in the UK going on about whether homosexuals should be allowed to get married and I'm all for it. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one.

For some reason my Sidekick 4g doesn't agree with the forums very well and the cursor hops around sometimes while I'm trying to type. Then I can't move the cursor around to where I need it and delete botched sentences, or in a few cases, fragments.

As for you correcting my grammar, there's an ancient saying that goes, "When losing an argument, always correct the other persons grammar." Congratulations on continuing to fulfill that age old saying. Also if I might add, I said in previous paragraphs that I've done my research and looked at both sides of the argument on abortion. I was raised to believe in the bible and I have decided to pick and choose what I want to apply to my every day life. One lesson that I've learned is that life is precious, and I know that to many people, life begins at different times in the gestation period. I personally believe that life begins at conception. When the body(at this time the 'body' I'm referring to is when the sperm fertilizes the egg) and soul come together is when in my eyes life begins. This is a completely different subject from the topic. I am challenging you, Sweeney, to send me a link that will change my view. I am not easily swayed but as I said before, I used to be 100% anti homosexual. I used to think 'they' were abominations and outcasts, and I have personally come a long way on the subject. I want you to edjucate me seeing as you've decided to butt heads with my morals.

Huh. It's nice you don't think gay people are abominations anymore

Just wondering about some of the stuff you said about abortion (sorry if this is off topic) because I'm curious as to how far your beliefs on the subject go and your reasoning.


Life is precious - but the problem with abortion is that there's a lot of grey area. What if the woman was raped? What if there's health complications for her or the child? What if the child is so seriously disabled that they'll have no quality of life - or the mother can't provide a decent quality of life? What if she's an addict, or any number of things, or with an abusive partner? Granted, a fair amount of the time the situation won't always be as dire as that, but if life is sacred, it should also be about the quality of that life. Bringing a child into the world who will suffer horribly could be considered wrong. Similarly, a woman who suffers from severe medical complications may have to abort the fetus or risk not only her life, but also the child's life - and, as life is sacred, isn't it better to have her life saved than have two end?

[Sweeney]

For some reason my Sidekick 4g doesn't agree with the forums very well and the cursor hops around sometimes while I'm trying to type. Then I can't move the cursor around to where I need it and delete botched sentences, or in a few cases, fragments.

Looks like your poor judgement extends to gadgets, as well as personal world view choices.

As for you correcting my grammar, there's an ancient saying that goes, "When losing an argument, always correct the other persons grammar." Congratulations on continuing to fulfill that age old saying.

That would probably apply if it was the only thing in my post. Which it clearly isn't.
On the other hand, wasn't one of your first replies to me correcting my colloquial use of "listen"?
I have another ancient saying for you: "The pot is calling the kettle black".

Also if I might add, I said in previous paragraphs that I've done my research and looked at both sides of the argument on abortion.

None of which you've thus far deigned to relate.

I was raised to believe in the bible and I have decided to pick and choose what I want to apply to my every day life.

Welcome to a complete contradiction.
You've been raised to believe in the Bible, but you pick and choose what to believe!?
If you base your life choices on the Bible, on what basis can you choose to ignore parts of it?

One lesson that I've learned is that life is precious, and I know that to many people, life begins at different times in the gestation period. I personally believe that life begins at conception.

When life begins is irrelevant, really. Both gametes are "alive".
Unless you don't masturbate, or kill ants, or flies, or bacteria, or other millions of things that conflict with your belief in the sanctity of life, you're a hypocrite.

Or perhaps you're meaning to refer to human life. In which case, you're just special pleading. There's no basis for differentiation between human life and other life, save anthropocentrism.

Then again, perhaps you're referring to "personhood", a term without scientific basis.

When the body(at this time the 'body' I'm referring to is when the sperm fertilizes the egg) and soul come together is when in my eyes life begins.

Now you're just being silly. There's no such thing as a soul.

This is a completely different subject from the topic. I am challenging you, Sweeney, to send me a link that will change my view.

There aren't likely to be any "links" that can express my opinion, and the facts, more eloquently than I can myself.

I am not easily swayed

Because you're stubborn. And ill-educated, as I said before.

but as I said before, I used to be 100% anti homosexual. I used to think 'they' were abominations and outcasts, and I have personally come a long way on the subject.

You keep bringing this up like it's some miraculous feat of character. It's not.
Accepting homosexuality as a normal facet of life is, well, normal.

I want you to edjucate me seeing as you've decided to butt heads with my morals.

Would you like me to teach you to spell, first?

[Adam]

Woop, gay pride (I'm only half gay, though ;D haha - though I think the correct term is bisexual.)

There's a whole argument in the UK going on about whether homosexuals should be allowed to get married and I'm all for it. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one.


Huh. It's nice you don't think gay people are abominations anymore

Just wondering about some of the stuff you said about abortion (sorry if this is off topic) because I'm curious as to how far your beliefs on the subject go and your reasoning.


Life is precious - but the problem with abortion is that there's a lot of grey area. What if the woman was raped? What if there's health complications for her or the child? What if the child is so seriously disabled that they'll have no quality of life - or the mother can't provide a decent quality of life? What if she's an addict, or any number of things, or with an abusive partner? Granted, a fair amount of the time the situation won't always be as dire as that, but if life is sacred, it should also be about the quality of that life. Bringing a child into the world who will suffer horribly could be considered wrong. Similarly, a woman who suffers from severe medical complications may have to abort the fetus or risk not only her life, but also the child's life - and, as life is sacred, isn't it better to have her life saved than have two end?

As I said, I've come a long way. I'm a pretty hard headed and bullheaded person and I've softened up quite a bit.

You're exactly right in what was said about the grey areas. I should have added these clauses in what I think is right and wrong. If the woman is raped, or if the quality of life of either/both the fetus / mother is jeopardized then I'd throw away any morals or beliefs I've taken. Those situations are the only time I'd believe in abortion. Just because a man and a woman can't use the proper precautions to prevent a pregnancy, doesn't mean a life should not be lost.

Sweeney this is the reason you're arguing with me about my belief. I believe in souls, you apparently do not. I believe in protecting ones soul as much as possible, you do not. Therefore we're never going to get anywhere with this, especially because you're not trying to educate me. Instead you are pointing out my grammatical errors, which I never said I am the greatest at. So once again, educate me or leave me alone because you're not going to save me from my own arrogance and 'ill-educated' way of life by continuing to do what you are doing.

Edited by Adam, 06 April 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Sweeney]

Sweeney this is the reason you're arguing with me about my belief. I believe in souls, you apparently do not.

Why do you believe in souls?

I believe in protecting ones soul as much as possible, you do not.

Souls don't exist.

Therefore we're never going to get anywhere with this, especially because you're not trying to educate me.

Let me explain a little.
You are making claims. I have asked you to back them up. You have not done so.
Unless you back up your claims, I can't move on.

You've said that you believe in the Bible, because that's how you were raised.
But you've also said that you pick and choose which bits to believe.
That's inconsistent, as I've already said.

Instead you are pointing out my grammatical errors, which I never said I am the greatest at.

Also, not instead.

So once again, educate me or leave me alone because you're not going to save me from my own arrogance and 'ill-educated' way of life by continuing to do what you are doing.

I have repeatedly asked you to provide support for the claims you're making.
Everything you've posted so far has failed to achieve that.

I don't think you can support your opinions, despite this supposed extensive reading of yours.
And that is why you're wrong.

[Galadriel]

What is a soul?

[Sweeney]

What is a soul?

Well, that'd be a good place to start, aye.

Of course, I asked for a definition of murder as a starting point about a hundred years ago, too... And that went nowhere.

[Adam]

Damn you guys are so far off topic it isn't even funny.

[Sweeney]

Damn you guys are so far off topic it isn't even funny.

Conversations develop organically.

If you like, though, we could go back to talking about how you think gays shouldn't be able to marry, and stick to that?
Well, that and how you're ok with gays as long as they don't hit on you.

[Trichomes]

Damn you guys are so far off topic it isn't even funny.

Hmm, wonder whose fault that is...

[luvsmyncis]

Oh right, I forgot to answer back to your waste of sperm and egg troll looking ass.

Yeah, you're right. He totally should have been aborted.

[Sweeney]

Yeah, you're right. He totally should have been aborted.

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

Edit: I wonder how many of those reps were from people who didn't understand the post xD

[trizzle]

Yeah, you're right. He totally should have been aborted.

[ShadowLink64]

I know there are people who "make a choice" to be gay or to be bi. It was like, the hottest thing to do when I was in middle school. Goddamn, everyone wanted me to be their girlfriend, and all I wanted to do was be left out of it. Gays can be dishonest too. There are closeted gays too worried about persecution, or who have been taught homosexuality is wrong, and they enter a marriage with a partner they will never be sexually attracted to. They have families and live this lie until they find the strength to be truthful. Homosexuality needs to stop being so taboo so that everyone can finally just be honest and live their lives without all this shit getting in the way.

+1

It would be nice if the tolerance was there so people could just be honest with themselves and other people, and actually feel like they are living the life they want to live. The man feels awful enough, but imagine how the wife would feel if the husband was like "oh by the way, I am actually gay, and am not sexually attracted to you. I'm living this way to feel accepted in society.". What a revelation that would be. You'd think that some clues would have popped up along the way.

I have two pretty close friends that are gay (one male, one female who is technically bisexual). If heterosexuals think they have it hard trying to find someone and to define themselves, they mustn't have any gay friends to give them some perspective. I bet people like Rick Santorum (yeah, that jackass ) have never had any gay friends and lived in a bubble their whole lives.

I personally put the blame on religion (not to say that some aspects of religion aren't "good" and that people that follow religion are all aware of this -- following doctrine is what works in their lives). It's just unfortunate that religion imposes itself on unwilling subjects via these 'societal norms'. I'm glad my country legalized same-sex marriage because we're acknowledging legally that sure, it's ok. Among my circle of friends, homophobic talk is frowned upon because chances are, we all know someone whom this affects. The tolerance will hopefully build up soon.

[luvsmyncis]

Edit: I wonder how many of those reps were from people who didn't understand the post xD

3 of the reps are from people who agreed that you should have been murdered before you were born.

I personally put the blame on religion (not to say that some aspects of religion aren't "good" and that people that follow religion are all aware of this -- following doctrine is what works in their lives). It's just unfortunate that religion imposes itself on unwilling subjects via these 'societal norms'. I'm glad my country legalized same-sex marriage because we're acknowledging legally that sure, it's ok. Among my circle of friends, homophobic talk is frowned upon because chances are, we all know someone whom this affects. The tolerance will hopefully build up soon.

The good aspects of religion get completely overshadowed by the bad. Instead of focusing on loving one another and being honorable, kind, and humble, people use their religion to control women, persecute homosexuals and people of other religions, and believe themselves higher and mightier than everyone. I swear, everyone with a "WWJD" bracelet completely forgets that our main man Jesus loved and cherished his fellows who were scumbags, whores, hobos, and *shudders* tax collectors. And I think we can all agree that tax collectors are totally worse than sodomites.

[Drakonid]

3 of the reps are from people who agreed that you should have been murdered before you were born.



The good aspects of religion get completely overshadowed by the bad. Instead of focusing on loving one another and being honorable, kind, and humble, people use their religion to control women, persecute homosexuals and people of other religions, and believe themselves higher and mightier than everyone. I swear, everyone with a "WWJD" bracelet completely forgets that our main man Jesus loved and cherished his fellows who were scumbags, whores, hobos, and *shudders* tax collectors. And I think we can all agree that tax collectors are totally worse than sodomites.

I think you forgot to mention those bad aspects you were talking about...

[NapisaurusRex]

3 of the reps are from people who agreed that you should have been murdered before you were born.

Because of this article about after-birth abortion, I use the word 'abort' to mean things like dead, murdered, kill, and all variations thereof. (can you abort the lights, please?)



And we are obviously all soul-less here, gay or not.