277 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

I'm sure the commandments were in place even before Sinai Covenant. Since you are using the context of the bible, Sin is "the transgression of the law".(1st John 3:4) This means that where there is no law there is no transgression.(Romans 4:15) God says "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?" (Exodus 16: 28) This means that the law as already existing and in force well before He listed the Ten Commandments verbally at Mt. Sinai

So you're saying that killing is wrong because God says so, even before He told us? Ok.

What about if God changed his mind?
In other words, is killing wrong just because God says so? Or does God say it is wrong because it is, according to a moral arbiter external to himself?

One more plus for religion, if it didn't exist the world would never have had Life of Brian.

Well, that's more it's only plus... but it is a good one. Now I'm torn

[luvsmyncis]

Well, that's more it's only plus... but it is a good one. Now I'm torn

Hallelujah!

[Progoo3]

So you're saying that killing is wrong because God says so, even before He told us? Ok.

What about if God changed his mind?
In other words, is killing wrong just because God says so? Or does God say it is wrong because it is, according to a moral arbiter external to himself?

You must understand that when God created man in the beginning, He created them in His own image-we knew God and His will and laws.
But after the entrance of sin, man's understanding of God's holy will and law became darkened. Thus, we need the law to know that killing is wrong.


He won't change his mind. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the law to fail." Luke 16:17
I'm going to catch some sleep..talk to you tomorrow!

[Sweeney]

You must understand that when God created man in the beginning, He created them in His own image-we knew God and His will and laws.
But after the entrance of sin, man's understanding of God's holy will and law became darkened. Thus, we need the law to know that killing is wrong.


He won't change his mind. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the law to fail." Luke 16:17
I'm going to catch some sleep..talk to you tomorrow!

First of all, that's bullshit. Man was created innocent of Evil, according to the Christian mythos, therefore unable to know the difference between right and wrong. How can you logically have a concept of law, if you don't have a concept of wrong?

And you've completely failed to grasp the import of the question.

[Waser Lave]

Well, that's more it's only plus... but it is a good one. Now I'm torn

There would also be no Dogma (literally) and we'd lose a significant part of History of the World, Part I.

(I can't really think of any more. )

[trizzle]

I didn't think about all the art and literature faith has inspired, that is a very good point. I've been to my fair share of art galleries (in Spain, Hungary, London, Italy, USA, France) and in my opinion the most beautiful and breathtaking pieces tend to depict religious scenes and images. Places of worship themselves are often sites of beauty too, which leads me to think I should have maybe chosen 'better with religion'

However, saying, that people can obviously be inspired to create beautiful things for reasons other than faith (I mean look at the Taj Mahal) but it seems to me that belief and faith (in any religion/deity) provides many with security, happiness and for some, a drive to create wonderful things to honour their religion.

The temples in Egypt are another fantastic example of faith driving humanity to build something magnificent. Abu Simbel is jaw-droppingly incredible and dedicated to egyptian gods (and his wife, but that's beside the point). I think the world would be a less interesting place without faith, and the wonders of architecture it has inspired man to build.

[Romy]

You must understand that when God created man in the beginning, He created them in His own image-we knew God and His will and laws.
But after the entrance of sin, man's understanding of God's holy will and law became darkened. Thus, we need the law to know that killing is wrong.

He won't change his mind. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the law to fail." Luke 16:17
I'm going to catch some sleep..talk to you tomorrow!

Define sin.
What do you mean by it?

[cronus]

i think its good with it tbh
its just the people that take the teachings the wrong way ?? kinda.

some people are easily led to believe certain things
like how homosexuality is wrong
if they read it and believe its from the god they worship, theyll believe its right to treat homosexuality as a sin

but there are other texts they can live by. the bible and... other such books contradict themselves a lot im sure

its good to have faith in some higher power, but all it really takes is a few nutters to think 'hey i gotta spread the word' and proceed to hurt other people on the grounds of 'my god told me to' that makes it a little problematic

wow what am i trying to say here ??? maybe that
religion is good, it always has been, but only when you keep it to yourself?
i see too many athiests telling christians theyre wrong and vice versa, and it always leads to a fight

so maybe if people kinda learned that telling people theyre wrong for their beliefs is Not Okay then wed have less of a monumental issue here.

although what are the chances of that happening ha ha :')

[btw im probably really bad at wording things here for that im sorry u_u
also ive pretty much read like 2 passages from the bible for school so i have pretty much no idea whats in them, sorry if i offend, im just blissfully unaware?? ha ha]

[Ladida]

Define sin.
What do you mean by it?

Everyone who has pre-marital relations has lived in sin and are going to Hell! Unless they pray really hard and then God will forgive because this one loves everyone. Except gays.

[iargue]

My opinion on this discussion is that it will go on forever, and nothing will change at all.

Religious has existed since recorded history, its existed in hundreds of thousands of different forms, from believing that earth is a living create, to believing in a single god, to believing in mythology. Religion has always been a part of human nature. Its impossible to determine anything about how life would be without religion. Some people say that Hitler wouldn't have killed everyone without religion. But Hitler would never have existed without religion. None of us would. Somewhere thousands of years ago, something would have happened that created an entire new point of reality, forever changing how the entire planet developed.

Religion has brought a lot of bad things, and brought a lot of good things. Its caused a lot of wars, and its won a lot of wars. Its created and destroyed. Determining if its bad or good is impossible though. Simply because its far to big for anybody to measure.

The biggest issue is that this topic is 100% based on the people who use religion to promote their own personal feelings, and not that of god. The Bible doesn't speak about thousands of subjects, but people choose to preach about them anyways, saying that god is against them, simply because they are against them. They are no different then Hitler, using the Aryan race as his reasoning for taking over the world. When people see a group of people, they will always see to control the group. Its no different then a government, or a cult, or celebrity following. Anywhere that anyone follows a single belief, there will be someone who uses it to their advantage. That is when religion causes a negative impact. Religion as its own basis does not cause any harm. Religion teaches that killing is bad, and thus you should not start wars. But people subvert religion to create wars. Religion teaches to help others, but people subvert religion to force others to their opinion.

Humanity would be better without humans, not without religion. As long as humanity exists, all of the issues that plague us, will always plague us.

[Waser Lave]

Humanity would be better without humans, not without religion.

Humanity would be in quite a bit of trouble without humans.

[trizzle]

Everyone who has pre-marital relations has lived in sin and are going to Hell! Unless they pray really hard and then God will forgive because this one loves everyone. Except gays.

I am a christian...but that made me chuckle

[Yung]

But seriously I am pretty sure that homosexuality has been documented in animals. I sure do wish we had a zoologist to confirm these things

Homosexuality is a common place in several different animal societies none being so obvious as the Bonobo. Bonobos openly have sex with other Bonobos, both male and female as a common place usually multiple times a day.

Homosexual sex is frequent in bonobos and is an important social tactic for females, who form strong bonds with each other and protect themselves against male aggression (which is frequent and extreme in their cousins, the chimpanzees, who are not female-bonded). In part because female bonobos can fight back, the rewards of aggression for the males decrease and the group becomes more peaceful.

SOURCE: Harvard Independent

Some species of Dolphins are also a common example of an animal species that actively participates in homosexuality.

An "unprecedented study" of bottlenose dolphins conducted by the University of Massachusetts has discovered that dolphins -- or at least this particular group of dolphins -- swings both ways. They are bisexual, sometimes gay, and fiercely polyamorist.

SOURCE: TOWLEROAD

Surprisingly enough over 130 different species of birds have been documented as being in homosexual relations with others of their species.

More than 130 bird species are known to engage in homosexual behavior at least occasionally, a fact that has puzzled scientists.

SOURCE: Live Science

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo, were a couple for about six years, during which they nurtured a fertilized egg together (given to them by a zookeeper) and raised the young chick that hatched.

SOURCE: Live Science

[Bone]

Homosexuality is a common place in several different animal societies none being so obvious as the Bonobo. Bonobos openly have sex with other Bonobos, both male and female as a common place usually multiple times a day.


SOURCE: Harvard Independent

Some species of Dolphins are also a common example of an animal species that actively participates in homosexuality.


SOURCE: TOWLEROAD

Surprisingly enough over 130 different species of birds have been documented as being in homosexual relations with others of their species.


SOURCE: Live Science


SOURCE: Live Science

She was talking about Sweeney, but we can never have too many zoologists

[Romy]

Everyone who has pre-marital relations has lived in sin and are going to Hell! Unless they pray really hard and then God will forgive because this one loves everyone. Except gays.

I fail to see how this answers the question I made.

I asked for a definition, not an example.

[NapisaurusRex]

I fail to see how this answers the question I made.

I asked for a definition, not an example.

Transgression against divine law. That's why sins vary according to religion.

[cornymikey]

I don't think religion clouds judgement at all. I mean I think without religion, especially in like the 1400s or some other century a long time ago, religion was what made people cooperate and act as a society/civilization and less like individual humans. Religion is a unifying institution, and even though I don't personally have one, i can see the value of it both practically and ideologically.

[Bone]

I don't think religion clouds judgement at all. I mean I think without religion, especially in like the 1400s or some other century a long time ago, religion was what made people cooperate and act as a society/civilization and less like individual humans. Religion is a unifying institution, and even though I don't personally have one, i can see the value of it both practically and ideologically.

I don't mean to be rude, but are you Hitler?

[Ladida]

I fail to see how this answers the question I made.

I asked for a definition, not an example.

I wasn't trying to answer your question.

I'm an atheist, I don't do the whole sin thing, I answer to myself. You'd probably want to focus on getting the answer from the dude you originally asked.

I am a christian...but that made me chuckle

Bahah I like you

[Drakonid]

I don't mean to be rude, but are you Hitler?

I don't mean to be rude, but do you know who Hitler was?

[Bone]

I don't mean to be rude, but do you know who Hitler was?

I do.

That's why I question our friend cornymikey's celebration of the use of religion to control and manipulate populations.


Next time I'll go with Ferdinand.

[Romy]

I wasn't trying to answer your question.

I'm an atheist, I don't do the whole sin thing, I answer to myself. You'd probably want to focus on getting the answer from the dude you originally asked.

Atheist or not...I was looking for a definition of sin.
Not your personal views on who/what you answer to.

Edited by Pikachuu, 17 April 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[NapisaurusRex]

I do.

That's why I question our friend cornymikey's celebration of the use of religion to control and manipulate populations.


Next time I'll go with Ferdinand.

Yeah, I bet everyone would've gotten it if you went with Ferdinand instead.

Atheist or not...I was looking for a definition of sin.
Not your personal views on who/what you answer to.

That was a pretty intense edit.

Anyway, even if atheists answer to themselves, wouldn't they still be doing committing transgressions against divine law? They just believe that the divinity is themselves/mind/whatever instead of a higher power?

Edited by Napiform, 17 April 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Bone]

Yeah, I bet everyone would've gotten it if you went with Ferdinand instead.

Everyone who matters would have gotten it in the first place or taken the initiative to do a Google search.

[Ladida]

That was a pretty intense edit.

Anyway, even if atheists answer to themselves, wouldn't they still be doing committing transgressions against divine law? They just believe that the divinity is themselves/mind/whatever instead of a higher power?

Darn it, now I'm curious to see what he raged