73 replies to this topic

[Waser Lave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-19687386

A Pakistani government minister has offered a $100,000 (£61,616) reward for the death of the maker of an anti-Islam film produced in the US.

Railways Minister Ghulam Ahmad Bilour said he would pay the reward for the "sacred duty" out of his own pocket.

A government spokesman condemned the remarks and said it was considering taking action against Mr Bilour.

The comments came a day after at least 20 people died in clashes between anti-film protesters and Pakistani police.

Friday's violence occurred in cities throughout Pakistan, with Karachi and Peshawar among the worst hit.

"I will pay whoever kills the makers of this video $100,000," the minister said. "If someone else makes other similar blasphemous material in the future, I will also pay his killers $100,000.

"I call upon these countries and say: Yes, freedom of expression is there, but you should make laws regarding people insulting our Prophet. And if you don't, then the future will be extremely dangerous."

His ANP party, which is part of the governing coalition, told the BBC this was a personal statement, not party policy, but added that it would not be taking any action against him.

The prime minister's press secretary, Shafqat Jalil, told the BBC that the government absolutely dissociated itself from Mr Bilour's statement.

"He is not a member of the PPP, he is an ANP politician and therefore the prime minister will speak to the head of the ANP to decide the next step. They are not ruling out action against him but say he will stay in his post for now."

Tear gas and batons

The film, denigrating Islam's Prophet Muhammad, has sparked violent protests throughout the Muslim world in recent weeks.

Scores of people were reported to have been injured on Saturday in a clash in Bangladesh's capital Dhaka between police and hundreds of demonstrators.

Police fired tear gas and used batons to disperse stone-throwing protesters who set several vehicles alight, the Associated Press news agency reports.

In Pakistan itself, a peaceful demonstration was held in Islamabad. Protesters marched through the capital and gathered near parliament, chanting slogans against the filmmaker and demanding punishment.

And in Nigeria, tens of thousands of Muslims marched in the northern city of Kano in a protest that passed off peacefully.

Marchers shouted "death to America, death to Israel and death to the enemies of Islam" in a procession several kilometres long. US and Israeli flags were dragged through the dirt.

In hiding

The exact origins of Innocence of Muslims, the low-budget film that has prompted the unrest, are unclear.

The alleged producer of the trailer of the film, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, is in hiding.

Anti-US sentiment grew after a trailer for the film dubbed into Arabic was released on YouTube earlier this month.

US citizens have been urged not to travel to Pakistan and the US embassy has paid for adverts on Pakistani TV showing President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemning the film.

Although US targets have borne the brunt of protests against the film, anti-Western sentiment has been stoked further by caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published this week in the satirical French magazine, Charlie Hebdo.

France shut embassies and other missions in about 20 countries across the Muslim world on Friday.

Discuss.

[Sweeney]

How responsible.

[Nalah]

Create offensive film.
Fake own death.
Claim reward.

[Sweeney]

Create offensive film.
Fake own death.
Claim reward.

Go to prison.

[Nalah]

Create offensive film.
Fake own death.
Claim reward.

Spoiler

yeah, you're right though.

Edited by Nalah, 23 September 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[Turnip]

Oh come on, it's just a film, which doesn't even seem like it's going to be the next Titanic or Avatar or whatever
I think wanting someone dead and willing to pay for them to be dead over a film which is probably really bias and full of dumb shit no one would care about anyways is going a liiiittle bit too far! I mean you can hardly expect everyone to love your religion, and if someone makes a huge hate message/film/protest/whatever about it you can be pretty sure it's by some buttmad kid who has his head too far up his ass to get it back out, so
just
ignore them?? Which is what you would normally do anyways??

Man I don't know ┐(ﾟ∀ﾟ)┌ I guess the most sensible thing to do if you're really that angry is to destroy the film/backups/etc and then sue the film makers, but something tells me sensible actions are prrroobably not gonna happen, heh

[Mishelle]

I really can't see all of this warmongering being over that film. I've seen the film. It's utter shit and for a while I had trouble following what the hell it was even about. It seems to me that extremists are using this film to build fake outrage and whip the people into a frenzy so they can be like "see Americans hate your religion, their government is mocking Muhammad, give us power" Especially since finding out that in Libya a lot of the people in the protest were being paid to protest.

[Turnip]

"see Americans hate your religion

Yeah this is exactly the problem D: Just because one guy with the mentality of a 15 year old decides he's going to make a really bad film about something your average joe isn't going to care about doesn't equal everyone in the country suddenly hates what he hates! It's so dumb! I wonder why/how people started thinking that whole "oh, one single person out of whatever number thinks/says x, that means everyone else does as well!" thing in the first place

I think what they all need to do is calm down a bit and then play some video games~

[Josh]

"I call upon these countries and say: Yes, freedom of expression is there, but you should make laws regarding people insulting our Prophet. And if you don't, then the future will be extremely dangerous."

Wait ... what?

[Cript]

Our country is about freedom of and freedom from religion. I'm a Christian and accept that others have the right to despise and mock my beliefs. That our government apologized for and denounced this film told me that they're ok with mocking every religion except for Islam which I believe sends a terrible message that we're going to appease one group by not protecting the free speech of another.

The best way I've seen it put - A film mocks Islam for being a peaceful religion whose followers are hateful and kill innocents. Muslims then react by being hateful and killing innocents. Irony much?

[Mew]

The best way I've seen it put - A film mocks Islam for being a peaceful religion whose followers are hateful and kill innocents. Muslims then react by being hateful and killing innocents. Irony much?

This 1000%.

[Mishelle]

Our country is about freedom of and freedom from religion. I'm a Christian and accept that others have the right to despise and mock my beliefs. That our government apologized for and denounced this film told me that they're ok with mocking every religion except for Islam which I believe sends a terrible message that we're going to appease one group by not protecting the free speech of another.

The best way I've seen it put - A film mocks Islam for being a peaceful religion whose followers are hateful and kill innocents. Muslims then react by being hateful and killing innocents. Irony much?

The denounced the video because Muslim extremists are trying to say that the American government was a part of it and that they condoned it. They cannot fathom a government where everyone has the freedom to express themselves in any way they see fit because they've never had a government run as such. They believe that anything that's put out there is because the government encouraged it when that's not true. That's why they came out and publicly denounced the video.

And as for the last part, you can say that about many religions. There are many extremists. Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful and loving religion but there are a few extremists who beat gay people to death and bomb abortion clinics in the name of God. They have to keep in mind that not every American hates Islam and condones everything one American says, and we have to keep in mind that not ever Arab Muslim hates America and is going to go off and bomb every person who says anything bad about Muhammad. There are many civilians in Libya who protested the attacks against the US embassy and the death of our ambassador. We all need to wage a war against groupthink.

Edited by Mishelle, 23 September 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Cript]

The denounced the video because Muslim extremists are trying to say that the American government was a part of it and that they condoned it. They cannot fathom a government where everyone has the freedom to express themselves in any way they see fit because they've never had a government run as such. They believe that anything that's put out there is because the government encouraged it when that's not true. That's why they came out and publicly denounced the video.

And as for the last part, you can say that about many religions. There are many extremists. Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful and loving religion but there are a few extremists who beat gay people to death and bomb abortion clinics in the name of God. They have to keep in mind that not every American hates Islam and condones everything one American says, and we have to keep in mind that not ever Arab Muslim hates America and is going to go off and bomb every person who says anything bad about Muhammad. There are many civilians in Libya who protested the attacks against the US embassy and the death of our ambassador. We all need to wage a war against groupthink.

You can't compare Christianity which is mocked daily to Islam which kills over any visual representation of their prophet. I think back to the South Park episode where despite the creators writing it into their show, Comedy Central still censored him. Insane dual standard.

[Mishelle]

You can't compare Christianity which is mocked daily to Islam which kills over any visual representation of their prophet. I think back to the South Park episode where despite the creators writing it into their show, Comedy Central still censored him. Insane dual standard.

Not every Muslim does that. Islamists do that. Just like not every Christian bombs abortion clinics, fundamentalists do that.

[Adam]

That's always nice, a foreign leader is inviting terrorism on U.S soil. That's exactly what we need, if something does happen because of what he said guess who's on our bombing list next?
Just sayin'

[Casilla]

They should have never had a public holiday for the protests. Just like any other riot, when people got nothin' else to do, they tend to get violent. They made the situation much, much worse.

That our government apologized for and denounced this film told me that they're ok with mocking every religion except for Islam which I believe sends a terrible message that we're going to appease one group by not protecting the free speech of another.

And the US ad in Pakistan did not apologize for the video. They said, and I quote, "We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others." "Let me state very clearly...that the United States government had nothing to do with this video. We absolutely reject its content and message." That's not an apology in any sense of the word. It's diplomacy. The administration did the best thing it could do in this situation.

God, you're making me defend Obama and Clinton, Cript. And there's PLENTY of Christian violence out there in the world, Cript. Even here in America (as Mishelle pointed out). India has a Christian terrorist group who kidnaps and mutilates women. There's Breivik in Norway. There's the Lord's Resistance Army in Ugunda, who kidnaps and mutilates children. Unfortunately, there's gay people in Africa who get horribly killed by Christians.

Any time you give people something to believe in, something that separates them from others, the crazy comes out of the woodwork. That's not the entire religion, just a few. That's just humanity.

[Cript]

They should have never had a public holiday for the protests. Just like any other riot, when people got nothin' else to do, they tend to get violent. They made the situation much, much worse.



And the US ad in Pakistan did not apologize for the video. They said, and I quote, "We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others." "Let me state very clearly...that the United States government had nothing to do with this video. We absolutely reject its content and message." That's not an apology in any sense of the word. It's diplomacy. The administration did the best thing it could do in this situation.

God, you're making me defend Obama and Clinton, Cript. And there's PLENTY of Christian violence out there in the world, Cript. Even here in America (as Mishelle pointed out). India has a Christian terrorist group who kidnaps and mutilates women. There's Breivik in Norway. There's the Lord's Resistance Army in Ugunda, who kidnaps and mutilates children. Unfortunately, there's gay people in Africa who get horribly killed by Christians.

Any time you give people something to believe in, something that separates them from others, the crazy comes out of the woodwork. That's not the entire religion, just a few. That's just humanity.

The government rejects videos that denigrate religious beliefs? Have you seen such a response for any media attacking Christianity? How about the fact that our government ENDORSES "Piss Christ"

[Casilla]

The government rejects videos that denigrate religious beliefs? Have you seen such a response for any media attacking Christianity? How about the fact that our government ENDORSES "Piss Christ"

Piss Christ is art that offends. This director cast people for a movie and then deliberately dubbed over them, and doesn't claim his work is art. In fact, he claims the entire POINT of the video is offend.

And this is foreign relations. Had this outrage been internal, of course this would not happen. But sometimes, in diplomacy, you say things to other countries, because it protects and promotes your interests. Which is why a lot of people were shocked at some of the contents of the diplomatic cables that WikiLeaks leaked, but of course, no diplomat was.

[Mishelle]

The government rejects videos that denigrate religious beliefs? Have you seen such a response for any media attacking Christianity? How about the fact that our government ENDORSES "Piss Christ"

The government did not go on record and say "we endorse offending Christians" they used funding to endorse art. They went on record to denounce the video because like it's been said over and over already Muslim extremists were telling people that the American government was responsible for the video when they aren't.

[Cript]

Piss Christ is art that offends. This director cast people for a movie and then deliberately dubbed over them, and doesn't claim his work is art. In fact, he claims the entire POINT of the video is offend.

And this is foreign relations. Had this outrage been internal, of course this would not happen. But sometimes, in diplomacy, you say things to other countries, because it protects and promotes your interests. Which is why a lot of people were shocked at some of the contents of the diplomatic cables that WikiLeaks leaked, but of course, no diplomat was.

So what you're saying is that we should apologize to people we offend in other countries but not our own? It's acceptable for our citizens to offend other citizens but we should spend money to run ads in other countries if such content offends their citizens?

The government did not go on record and say "we endorse offending Christians" they used funding to endorse art. They went on record to denounce the video because like it's been said over and over already Muslim extremists were telling people that the American government was responsible for the video when they aren't.

So, it's our government's job to correct misconceptions that Muslim extremists have? I think we're going to be busy.

[Mishelle]

So, it's our government's job to correct misconceptions that Muslim extremists have? I think we're going to be busy.

It wasn't a misconception just by extremists, it was a misconception by the entire Muslim population. Muslims all over the world were protesting this video because they thought the US Gvt had a hand in it. This misconception could have put even more American lives at risk overseas. They were trying to use this video to coerce more Muslims into extremism by blaming the US government for the video. Had they said nothing it would've perpetuated more violence.

Edited by Mishelle, 23 September 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[Cript]

Yes it is when this misconception puts American lives at risk overseas. They were trying to use this video to coerce more Muslims into extremism by blaming the US government for the video. Had they said nothing it would've perpetuated more violence.

How much money do you believe we should spend on such endeavors? There were already Muslim extremists planning these attacks before the video.

[ShadowLink64]

Why don't they just leave the punishment of the US and its "belligerents" in the hands of Allah?

Not every Muslim does that. Islamists do that. Just like not every Christian bombs abortion clinics, fundamentalists do that.

When you have foreign officials condoning the killing, it really diminishes the view that it's only extremists taking part in this.

"I call upon these countries and say: Yes, freedom of expression is there, but you should make laws regarding people insulting our Prophet. And if you don't, then the future will be extremely dangerous."

I think that this statement by the minister shows some ignorance about the essence behind freedom of expression. Why should the line be drawn at stopping people from insulting their Prophet? Who else will get special exceptions from being insulted? No one's deity should get special protection under any kind of law.

It wasn't a misconception just by extremists, it was a misconception by the entire Muslim population. Muslims all over the world were protesting this video because they thought the US Gvt had a hand in it.

That's pretty ignorant of them, that's all I can say. There are independent film makers all over the continent who don't necessarily get the government's permission to create productions.

[Sweeney]

When you have foreign officials joining in though, it really diminishes the view that it's only extremists taking part in this.

You've seen the guys who are running for the American presidency this year, right?

[Frizzle]

Which is why people who believe in religion, should not be in any position of power.