274 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

I have three. I guess I don't really understand what you feel the alternatives are then. Most of the things I do (time out, early bedtime, keeping them too busy to be bad, and leading by example) either don't work or could turn into a physical punishment.

 

Sounds like you need to do some reading.

I recommend "How to talk so kids will listen" as a starting point.

[Frizzle]

Or best option for an immediate, temporary and ultimately damaging effect.

 

Why would it necessarily be a damaging affect?

[Waser Lave]

But there is never a situation where it is the best option in the long term.
Easiest option, sure.
Or best option for an immediate, temporary and ultimately damaging effect.

Damaging? I don't really think a light, occasional slap on the arse or leg is going to permanently scar a person emotionally.

[NapisaurusRex]

Sounds like you need to do some reading.
I recommend "How to talk so kids will listen" as a starting point.

Any defense I give to that will be an excuse, so...

I am reading The No-cry Discipline Solution though.

[Sweeney]

Why would it necessarily be a damaging affect?

Damaging? I don't really think a light, occasional slap on the arse or leg is going to permanently scar a person emotionally.

 

It's teaching them an inappropriate lesson. That's all.

There are always better ways to resolve a problem than with violence.

[Waser Lave]

There are always better ways to resolve a problem than with violence.

Just to be facetious and because you've doing those overarching statements again, how would you resolve a situation where somebody is repeatedly punching you in the face?

[Sweeney]

Just to be facetious and because you've doing those overarching statements again, how would you resolve a situation where somebody is repeatedly punching you in the face?

 

Probably pass out.

[Waser Lave]

Probably pass out.

That's not an appropriate lesson.

[Sweeney]

That's not an appropriate lesson.

 

Anyone who was in my care wouldn't get to that stage.

[Waser Lave]

Anyone who was in my care wouldn't get to that stage.

Because you'd beat them mercilessly before they had the chance?

[Sweeney]

Because you'd beat them mercilessly before they had the chance?

 

No, they'd be restrained.

Which, by the way, isn't a punishment

[Frizzle]

I'm so glad you weren't in political power in 1939...

 

"Guys, guys, Hitler just took over Poland"

 

"Let's put him on the naughty step"

[Nymh]

I was raised in what I (and I believe anyone) would classify as an abusive household both physically and emotionally.  Do I hit my children?  No.  Do I think I would have been better off if I had not been hit?  Yes.

 

I think part of the problem with children being impossible twats nowadays stems from two things:

 

A) Parents who spank their children so much that they become desensitized to it

B) Parents who use ineffective forms of non-physical punishment which belittle and demean the children instead of teaching them in more uplifting, respectful and supportive ways

 

I can't believe how many times I have been out and heard a parent speak disrespectfully to their child.  Name-calling, belittling, emotionally manipulating; all of these things are seen by some parents as "better" than spanking the child, but they can be just as harmful.

 

I will admit, I used to spank my children.  Their father still hits them.  I stopped spanking when I realized that they were viscerally afraid of being spanked in a way that made me uncomfortable.  I have not hit them in years, but when they think they are in trouble they still react in a frightened way, recoiling and asking if they're going to be spanked.  I think part of this is because their father and several people on his side of the family still hit them.  Once, after my stepmother had been babysitting the girls for a day, I came home to find that my older daughter had been spanked.  She cried when she told me about it, and explained that she felt betrayed because I had left her with someone that would hit her.  That, my friends, is a horrible feeling as a parent.

 

Hitting my children does not teach them that what they did was wrong.  It makes them feel hurt, helpless and abused.  I don't want my children to feel that way ever, and that is not how valuable lessons are taught.

 

If I tell them that I am disappointed in them, the reaction is frankly amazing.  They absolutely hate disappointing me.  I save it for very rare occasions, because it gets the point across so clearly and when I have gotten to the point of stating my disappointment, they are very motivated to figure out what they need to do to make things right.

[Waser Lave]

Which, by the way, isn't a punishment

It would be if you did it properly. I worry about the next generation sometimes, not out of concern for their well being (I don't really care about that), but because I recognise that they and their kids are probably going to be responsible for looking after us in our old age and a lot of them are already complete and utter spoiled bastards because of this namby-pamby parenting lark.

[Sweeney]

I'm so glad you weren't in political power in 1939...

 

"Guys, guys, Hitler just took over Poland"

 

"Let's put him on the naughty step"

 

Isn't that basically what appeasement was?

It would be if you did it properly. I worry about the next generation sometimes, not out of concern for their well being (I don't really care about that), but because I recognise that they and their kids are probably going to be responsible for looking after us in our old age and a lot of them are already complete and utter spoiled bastards because of this namby-pamby parenting lark.

 

No, it wouldn't.

The problem is with shitty parents, not with parents that don't hit their kids, as Nymh outlined.

[NapisaurusRex]

No, they'd be restrained.
Which, by the way, isn't a punishment

So I can tie my kids up and it's ok, but spanking isn't...

[Nymh]

It would be if you did it properly. I worry about the next generation sometimes, not out of concern for their well being (I don't really care about that), but because I recognise that they and their kids are probably going to be responsible for looking after us in our old age and a lot of them are already complete and utter spoiled bastards because of this namby-pamby parenting lark.

 

I wonder what they'll do to old senile people who basically act like children.  Will they flip them over and spank them if they refuse their afternoon Jell-o cup?  If they spit their medicine out instead of swallowing it, will they get a smack in the face?

[Waser Lave]

Isn't that basically what appeasement was?

 
Chamberlain needed a good smacking for that at the time (with hindsight).
 

No, it wouldn't.
The problem is with shitty parents, not with parents that don't hit their kids, as Nymh outlined.

Some shitty parents would probably benefit from mild physical chastisement themselves.

[NapisaurusRex]

I wonder what they'll do to old senile people who basically act like children.  Will they flip them over and spank them if they refuse their afternoon Jell-o cup?  If they spit their medicine out instead of swallowing it, will they get a smack in the face?

No, they'll just neglect them still.

Edited by Napiform, 23 April 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Sweeney]

So I can tie my kids up and it's ok, but spanking isn't...

 

*sigh* No.

 

Restraint is to prevent immediate harm, not for use as a punishment. I'm talking about holding (not technically, but for simplicity's sake) a kid's hand to stop them punching you in the face, or putting them in a full-body hold to stop them jumping out of a third storey window.

 

Not tying them to a radiatior with the belt of your bathrobe.

 Some shitty parents would probably benefit from mild physical chastisement themselves.

 

Or just a pre-parenting assessment of suitability.

[NapisaurusRex]

*sigh* No.
 
Restraint is to prevent immediate harm, not for use as a punishment. I'm talking about holding (not technically, but for simplicity's sake) a kid's hand to stop them punching you in the face, or putting them in a full-body hold to stop them jumping out of a third storey window.
 
Not tying them to a radiatior with the belt of your bathrobe.

I wouldn't do that. Radiators get hot.

[Waser Lave]

Or just a pre-parenting assessment of suitability.

Are you suggesting that people who failed such an assessment would be forbidden from having/raising children?

[Sweeney]

Are you suggesting that people who failed such an assessment would be forbidden from having/raising children?

 

Only until they retook the assessment and passed. It'd only be fair.

[Waser Lave]

Only until they retook the assessment and passed. It'd only be fair.

That smells a bit close to eugenics and it's difficult to see how you could come up with an assessment which wouldn't be biased by the people composing it.