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What is your opinion on drugs?


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#51 Syntax

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:19 PM

So carrying weed is a more severe offence than a rape?

 

Crony said it best. Gateway drug. I'm honestly for the "draconian" drug laws that Sg has.

 

So do you agree with its use in this situation. 

 

Do you like the idea of it actually being used, or just like the idea of it as a deterrent for drugs? 

 

I don't particularly like the idea of it, but I like it better than the alternative, which is to imprison him for life. Drain on the economy, high levels of relapse, chance of further addictions, etc. And yes, I do like it as a deterrent for drugs.



#52 Frizzle

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

#53 Tubbz

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:21 AM

The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

 

In this case, it clearly is and is clearly working. 

They have you lowest drug use in the world, because people know getting caught with it will result in death...



#54 redlion

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:46 AM

The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

QFT.

People don't give a shit about what happens after they get caught. They don't plan to get caught. Deterrents would be negative side effects, "bad trips", the habit-forming nature of many drugs, and the not altogether uncommon behavior change after repeated use. Addiction is a cruel mistress.

But don't get me wrong. I'm all for responsible drug use. Prohibition encourages people the way rebel movies do. Legalization is the way forward, of course. But people have to be educated in primary school about their body chemistry, homeostasis, and the processes of life. That is altogether absent (at least in the states) and as a result most people are completely unprepared to introduce not only effective common and simple drugs (tylenol, antihistamines, expectorants) but serious and impairing drugs (painkillers, sleep aides, xanax) let alone the illegal varieties.

I think good resources are the key, but local teachers have to take a role in this more so than a DARE officer or some other fuckwad giving anti-drug lectures in ten states coinciding with his book release. That's a haphazard and uninspired way to wage a war on drugs. A dollar spent on education is 100x more effective than a dollar spent on bullets, but there's no education lobby (besides the teachers unions I suppose) so we're stuck with horrible common knowledge.

My favorite resource has always been Erowid which has basic information (dosing, legality, method of action) but also the infinitely more useful experience vaults. I'll tell you, there are some drugs I've thought about intellectually, like "why would someone try that?" and then I read someone's first hand report and I understand. Plenty of drugs I thought I was interested in, I'm not, just based on reading ten or twenty reports. But the reverse is also true. Two that have held my interest recently are Kava and Kratom, both unscheduled/unregulated in the US.

I'm almost obligated to advocate keeping an open mind about drugs. After LSD, there really isn't a choice. Apparently there are some clinical studies going on in Europe with LSD in terminal patients. Trying to give them the religious experience in old age or something :p

Knowledge is power.

#55 Frizzle

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:09 AM

In this case, it clearly is and is clearly working.
They have you lowest drug use in the world, because people know getting caught with it will result in death...


Then explain why people are still using it and how you cannot account for the missed detections?

Plus there's the downside of killing an innocent person over a joint or a couple of pills.

What message does that send out? "Drugs are bad and will kill you, so stop that we're going to kill you instead"

#56 redlion

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:09 AM

In this case, it clearly is and is clearly working. 
They have you lowest drug use in the world, because people know getting caught with it will result in death...

Not necessarily.

They're also an island nation, where 4/5 of the population lives in public housing. I think at one time, spitting gum out on the sidewalk was punishable by caning (not sure if still the case).

In 2009 Reporters without Borders ranked Singapore 133 of 175 in press freedom, behind the likes of Russia, the Congo, Cambodia, and only just ahead of the illustrious Iraqi press.

On a scale of 1 to 7, 1 being "free" and 7 being "not free" Freedom In the World ranked Singapore 4 and 4 on political and civil rights, getting them the distinguished "partly free" recognition.

I'd say the general political and social atmosphere has more to do with deterring drug use than the death penalty.

#57 Syntax

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:13 AM

People don't give a shit about what happens after they get caught. They don't plan to get caught. Deterrents would be negative side effects, "bad trips", the habit-forming nature of many drugs, and the not altogether uncommon behavior change after repeated use. Addiction is a cruel mistress.

 

Deterrent is anything that discourages you from doing something. If you know you're gonna be prosecuted if you're caught with it, you're likely not going to do it. People who don't give a shit are people who are very far gone. Who the punishment deters are the people who want to "try it" and "see what it's like". It stops them from even going down the road, and that cuts down on victims substantially.

 

Then explain why people are still using it and how you cannot account for the missed detections?

Plus there's the downside of killing an innocent person over a joint or a couple of pills.

What message does that send out? "Drugs are bad and will kill you, so stop that we're going to kill you instead"

 

Nothing's perfect, but it's working better than anything else right now.

 

The message is clearly drugs are bad for you and we think it's a crime. Deal with the consequences if you want to break the law.

 

Not necessarily.

They're also an island nation, where 4/5 of the population lives in public housing. I think at one time, spitting gum out on the sidewalk was punishable by caning (not sure if still the case).

In 2009 Reporters without Borders ranked Singapore 133 of 175 in press freedom, behind the likes of Russia, the Congo, Cambodia, and only just ahead of the illustrious Iraqi press.

On a scale of 1 to 7, 1 being "free" and 7 being "not free" Freedom In the World ranked Singapore 4 and 4 on political and civil rights, getting them the distinguished "partly free" recognition.

I'd say the general political and social atmosphere has more to do with deterring drug use than the death penalty.

 

What has public housing got to do with the death penalty?

 

You're looking at it now. There were many drug users and drug traffickers back then, cause Sg is a busy port and the police wasn't as good as they are now. When the death penalty was implemented for drugs, both using and trafficking, the levels fell yearly. Direct correlation between the implementation of the penalty and the prevalence of drug use. And like Tubbz said, the levels are the lowest in the world. The general political + social atmosphere has little to do with it, I'd wager. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with drug use, and the government is one of the least corrupt in the world. It's more of a long term effect thing, imo. Because there's a decreased amount of drugs going into Sg, there's less to go around. How can you get addicted to drugs if you can't get them or use them? It's not like in some countries where people come up to you on the corner and ask you "do you want to buy this packet of weed" because no-one does that.

 

Edit: Okay I realise we may be on different pages. I'm for the death penalty in Singapore in relation to drugs. The death penalty in another, larger country may be more of a burden than a help, and I don't really have an opinion on the best way to combat drug abuse in a larger country or even if it should be legalised. I'm saying that it works here, and I think that status quo should stay this way. Here.


Edited by Syntax, 24 January 2014 - 06:33 AM.


#58 Dan

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:58 AM

You're looking at it now. There were many drug users and drug traffickers back then, cause Sg is a busy port and the police wasn't as good as they are now. When the death penalty was implemented for drugs, both using and trafficking, the levels fell yearly. Direct correlation between the implementation of the penalty and the prevalence of drug use. And like Tubbz said, the levels are the lowest in the world. The general political + social atmosphere has little to do with it, I'd wager. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with drug use, and the government is one of the least corrupt in the world. It's more of a long term effect thing, imo. Because there's a decreased amount of drugs going into Sg, there's less to go around. How can you get addicted to drugs if you can't get them or use them? It's not like in some countries where people come up to you on the corner and ask you "do you want to buy this packet of weed" because no-one does that.

 

Edit: Okay I realise we may be on different pages. I'm for the death penalty in Singapore in relation to drugs. The death penalty in another, larger country may be more of a burden than a help, and I don't really have an opinion on the best way to combat drug use in a larger country or even if it should be legalised. I'm saying that it works here, and I think that status quo should stay this way.

 

[citation needed]

 

You're absolutely entitled to your own opinion on laws regarding drugs but I really do think you should have a proper look at the health risks for various drugs, round up the facts and formulate your own opinion on what drug laws you think are the most appropriate...

 

Personally I think the biggest mistake made regarding recreational drugs in recent times is how little research has been done into many of the illegal drugs we know about today - and that's an unfortunate side effects of the prohibitive laws we have. If we'd have researched further into the effects of cannabis, LSD, ecstasy, etc when we first prohibited them, we might have a better understanding of the effects (both positive and negative) today and regulate them accordingly. Only now have we figured out that 'reefer madness' isn't a real thing...

 

But regardless of what drugs are legal and illegal, people are always going to have their vices. People are always going to find a way to get high. You see alcoholics and drug addicts in every country... even Singapore...

 

But really... I'd feel pretty bummed out if I knew I lived in a country that would execute me for smoking something I grew in my back yard... 

 

Oh, and you only have to look so far to find evidence that Singapore might be telling fibs about it's drug abuse rates...



#59 Sweeney

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

Crony said it best. Gateway drug. I'm honestly for the "draconian" drug laws that Sg has.
 I don't particularly like the idea of it, but I like it better than the alternative, which is to imprison him for life. Drain on the economy, high levels of relapse, chance of further addictions, etc. And yes, I do like it as a deterrent for drugs.


I am completely flabbergasted that someone can actually approve of killing another person for carrying a half-kilo of plant matter.

I would compare it to the good old days when people got their tongues cut out for lying.

#60 Eilann

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

Hmmm. In my highschool kids really stick to alchohol or marijuana. I dont really smoke but I drink. I think that the side effects of drugs like Molly, Ectasy, etc just completely turn me away from them. Ive never had the desire to do them and hopefully never will. In my opinion the side effects highly outweigh the pluses (If there are any.) Another big deterrent for me is seeing the freshman (Now sophomores) and how some drugs mostly Molly and Shrooms have just completely changed them. Some were nice awesome kids and now its just like. Wow a year and your THAT different. Its really terrifying.



#61 Galadriel

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:09 PM

Death penalty is good for population problems and stress on natural resources.

I believe you should all check of the Church of Euthansia- Save the Planet, Kill Yourself.

 

Its 4 pillars are:

  • Suicide
  • Abortion
  • Sodomy
  • Cannibalism

Greetings.
We are not of this planet.
We do not understand
Your strange customs.
Your planet's ecosystem
Is failing.
Your leaders deny this.
Explain.

Your leaders deny this.
Your leaders deny this.
Your leaders deny this.
Your leaders deny this.

Why
Do your leaders lie to you?
Why
Do so many of you believe these lies?
Explain
Your strange customs.
Why
Believe these lies?

Save the planet.
Kill yourself.
Save the planet!
Kill yourself.



#62 redlion

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:35 PM

Death penalty is good for population problems and stress on natural resources.
I believe you should all check of the Church of Euthansia- Save the Planet, Kill Yourself.

That's my reference :p

Hmmm. In my highschool kids really stick to alchohol or marijuana. I dont really smoke but I drink. I think that the side effects of drugs like Molly, Ectasy, etc just completely turn me away from them. Ive never had the desire to do them and hopefully never will. In my opinion the side effects highly outweigh the pluses (If there are any.) Another big deterrent for me is seeing the freshman (Now sophomores) and how some drugs mostly Molly and Shrooms have just completely changed them. Some were nice awesome kids and now its just like. Wow a year and your THAT different. Its really terrifying.

You might also consider the other things that impact freshmen, like the change in social situations, the dating scene, the increased stress levels from school, etc. I'm not saying it's the drugs and I'm not saying it isn't, but if you're observing someone you only know casually, you may not know the full story.

But those types of drugs, MDMA, Ecstasy, MDA - they're episodic in a way I don't really enjoy.

They take you right up the emotional rollercoaster, right to the top. And you hang out there for a few hours, and then you spend the next few days in pain wondering if you would feel better trying various things, like a) killing yourself, b) taking drugs again, or c) some cureall or panacea that never works.

Generally, the greater the high, the greater the low.

#63 Galadriel

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:39 PM

But those types of drugs, MDMA, Ecstasy, MDA - they're episodic in a way I don't really enjoy.

They take you right up the emotional rollercoaster, right to the top. And you hang out there for a few hours, and then you spend the next few days in pain wondering if you would feel better trying various things, like a) killing yourself, b) taking drugs again, or c) some cureall or panacea that never works.

Generally, the greater the high, the greater the low.

 

The come down is definitely manageable. By that I mean, it is made less through eating certain foods and exercise. People have a tendency to sit around by themself when they are coming down and then get caught in the come down.



#64 Eilann

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:42 PM

Well yes we dont know the full story. But its not like peoples lives are that private in highschool. You generally know who does drugs during school and who doesnt lol. And you can see the change. It most likely isnt JUST the drugs but im sure they play a part in it :c



#65 redlion

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

The come down is definitely manageable. By that I mean, it is made less through eating certain foods and exercise. People have a tendency to sit around by themself when they are coming down and then get caught in the come down.

In my experience it made the depressed even more depressed, and the healthy consider whether they were depressed.

My experience with MDMA was limited to a handful of times, but the comedown was the same each time for me. It didn't matter if there were people around or not, I felt like shit for 48 hours at least. Obviously results may vary :p

I think this would be a good point to mention that whatever is in your pills, it likely isn't the same as the next batch of pills, so comparing experiences with this sort of drug is sort of an exercise in futility. Were they cut with caffeine? heroin? chalk? meth? The better pill databases have gone down (because identifying pills is encouraging drug use, right) so it's hard to know what you're putting in your body.

You're looking at it now. There were many drug users and drug traffickers back then, cause Sg is a busy port and the police wasn't as good as they are now. When the death penalty was implemented for drugs, both using and trafficking, the levels fell yearly. Direct correlation between the implementation of the penalty and the prevalence of drug use. And like Tubbz said, the levels are the lowest in the world. The general political + social atmosphere has little to do with it, I'd wager. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with drug use, and the government is one of the least corrupt in the world. It's more of a long term effect thing, imo. Because there's a decreased amount of drugs going into Sg, there's less to go around. How can you get addicted to drugs if you can't get them or use them? It's not like in some countries where people come up to you on the corner and ask you "do you want to buy this packet of weed" because no-one does that.

Forget I mentioned anything but that Singapore is an island nation. A small island nation.

Now, you have asserted that there is a direct correlation between capital punishment and the decrease in trafficking. I would probably have to agree, were I to look into the numbers.

But correlation does not imply causation.

There are a myriad of reasons that trafficking might have decreased. Perhaps they simply shifted their operations to go through Malaysia instead. I'm not going to waste everyone's time listing every possible reason, but your mistake is thinking that because two things happened at approximately the same time that they were necessarily linked causally.

Dan's link = QED.

#66 Syntax

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

[citation needed]

 

You're absolutely entitled to your own opinion on laws regarding drugs but I really do think you should have a proper look at the health risks for various drugs, round up the facts and formulate your own opinion on what drug laws you think are the most appropriate...

 

Personally I think the biggest mistake made regarding recreational drugs in recent times is how little research has been done into many of the illegal drugs we know about today - and that's an unfortunate side effects of the prohibitive laws we have. If we'd have researched further into the effects of cannabis, LSD, ecstasy, etc when we first prohibited them, we might have a better understanding of the effects (both positive and negative) today and regulate them accordingly. Only now have we figured out that 'reefer madness' isn't a real thing...

 

But regardless of what drugs are legal and illegal, people are always going to have their vices. People are always going to find a way to get high. You see alcoholics and drug addicts in every country... even Singapore...

 

But really... I'd feel pretty bummed out if I knew I lived in a country that would execute me for smoking something I grew in my back yard... 

 

Oh, and you only have to look so far to find evidence that Singapore might be telling fibs about it's drug abuse rates...

 

Again, I never said that it was a perfect solution, only that I support this solution. There's hardly going to be a one-size-fits-all panacea when it comes to thorny issues like abortion, drug use, prostitution and the like. The fact remains that the drug abuse rates are far lower than most countries, and that, imho, is good. It's not straight to the gallows for abusers too; you get a chance at rehabilitation first. It's the drug traffickers that gets the death penalty, because they're the ones distributing it.

 

Also I don't know how to give a citation for this cause this was taught in social studies. The materials are all lost somewhere. ;-;

 

Forget I mentioned anything but that Singapore is an island nation. A small island nation.

Now, you have asserted that there is a direct correlation between capital punishment and the decrease in trafficking. I would probably have to agree, were I to look into the numbers.

But correlation does not imply causation.

There are a myriad of reasons that trafficking might have decreased. Perhaps they simply shifted their operations to go through Malaysia instead. I'm not going to waste everyone's time listing every possible reason, but your mistake is thinking that because two things happened at approximately the same time that they were necessarily linked causally.

Dan's link = QED.

 

Okay. So a law that specifically aims to decrease and stop drug trafficking and use through the stick of the death penalty... wasn't the reason that drug trafficking/abuse rates decreased every year. I understand what you're saying about c=/=c but to say that the punishment (deterrent) didn't play a part in the falling rate is just silly. The fact is, if they even had to move to Malaysia to shift the goods is a sign that the law worked.



#67 Frizzle

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

The fact is, if they even had to move to Malaysia to shift the goods is a sign that the law worked.


That further proves the point that it isn't a deterrent.

#68 L33T

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:20 PM

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA DOOOOO ITTTTTTTT



#69 Drakonid

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:22 PM

LEGALIZE MARIJUANA DOOOOO ITTTTTTTT

I lied, you're dead



#70 Guest_Sarah_*

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:05 PM

My sister is a complete pot head, her inability to give a fuck about anything but herself almost cost me my marriage visa. I actually ended up beating the living shit out of her. It's her choice to do it, but forcing it on others by way of passive smoking is fucking retarded. 

 

As for other drugs, if people want to do them let them. They are free to kill themselves as they wish. Keeps the population down, 



#71 Sweeney

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 01:29 PM

Well it takes a lot more time and effort to move drugs into Malaysia


How can you possibly claim to know that?

#72 Sweeney

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

I'm pretty sure that moving drugs in Singapore (without the police cracking down on drug dealers) versus moving drugs from Singapore to Malaysia to Singapore(?) is a lot easier.


Oh, I see. You misunderstood the premise. That makes sense.

Carry on.

#73 jinq

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:39 PM

Never tried it and hope it stays that way



#74 Frizzle

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 10:17 PM

I'm pretty sure that moving drugs in Singapore (without the police cracking down on drug dealers) versus moving drugs from Singapore to Malaysia to Singapore(?) is a lot easier.


The it's still not a deterrent as the deviant behaviour is still be conducted, albeit displaced.

#75 MeowMeowMaryJane

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

I had a little bit of a problem with opiates at one point in my life but am happy to say I've been weed-only for about 4 years now and I like it that way! lol




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