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#326 Mishelle

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 11:02 AM

I'm talking sheer numbers. You brought up #KillAllMen, and asked if it's the same as #KillAllJews, etc. My answer to that is, yes. If you want to systematically kill the whole population of one group of, why would it be any different? It hasn't happened, and never will happen.

 

I didn't know the history behind the word, thank you. I've been using it as a term for the misandrists of today. I'm using the term feminazi to describe radical feminists, nothing more.

 

No that's not what I said. I said that a hashtag is not the same as ACTUAL GENOCIDE OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT HAS HAPPENED. Equating women who shit talk men online to people who systemically killed millions of people is over the top, wrong, and offensive.



#327 Adam

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 11:06 AM

I understand how you've been using it and what you specifically are referencing when you say it. I just wanted to explain why lots of women are offended (and justified in their offense, in my opinion) by the term feminazi. The history of the word has always carried a negative connotation, and it's almost exclusively used to insult women who are just feminists, not radical by any means. Misandrist (it's a word :p) is a much better term to describe a person who hates men and wants to hurt them. 

 

Mmkay. That's my two cents.

 

*poofs*

Thank you once again. That's the 3rd thing I've learned today, and i'll stop using the word out of disgust for what it means to everyone else, and not the way I've been using it.


No that's not what I said. I said that a hashtag is not the same as ACTUAL GENOCIDE OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT HAS HAPPENED. Equating women who shit talk men online to people who systemically killed millions of people is over the top, wrong, and offensive.

I took the point you were trying to make too literally with the whole hashtag thing, and not as historical fact.



#328 Mishelle

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 11:11 AM

I'm just really over people equating everything they don't like to nazis or Hitler. It's lame.



#329 Coops

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 11:13 AM

I'm just really over people equating everything they don't like to nazis or Hitler. It's lame.

Okay I'm back but just to say: Godwin's law.

 

And yes. It's lame.



#330 Daria

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 01:43 PM

How adorable.

The whole notion of 'modern day feminism' is false. 

It's something that has been propagated largely by how the media reports things; if you think that media doesn't have a biased, tilt or otherwise poor history of reporting feminism then I encourage you to educate yourself by looking deeply into it and possibly taking a lot of women's studies classes.

There has always been extreme misandry that is mislabelled as feminism.

There is no 'modern day feminism' as people so eloquently like to call it or the disgusting appalling term of 'feminazi.'

There is feminism.

The social, political, economic and personal equality of the sexes.

If you believe in that, you are a feminist.

If you believe in all of that but just don't like the word, you're still a feminist but also a moron.

An opinion is NOT misdefining an entire movement and grouping extremism with it.

An opinion is a preference, it's never right or wrong, such as whether you think pineapple belongs on pizza. 

This in not an opinionated matter.

Feminism IS equality.

Misandry IS ingrained prejudice towards men.

Equality has not been been reached until all women (Black, Latin American, South Asian, Trans) are equal. 

Equality has not been reached until all men (Gay, Trans, Black, etc) are equal.

I'm not sorry if equality is making some groups of people uncomfortable because they aren't handed all their privilege on a silver platter anymore.

I've noticed and experience it as an overly privileged middle class, white, (seen as) straight woman.

You do a total disservice to all women who need equality (spoiler alert: ALL WOMEN), all the women who fought for equality and all the future women who deserve equality in this world.

You couldn't start a fight if you tried. There is nothing to 'fight' about. 

 

and no, we won't be rave buddies because I won't 'put behind' me something that is the very foundation of who I am. 

I'll stick with all the rave buddies I currently have who don't spout offensive BS and then try to reinforce idiocy. 

 

635814254751080336-1653860312_tumblr_nd3

hey dont know where you got the notion that i dont stand for equality??

and theres no need to abuse or lash out at me and call me a moron lol

call me misinformed, please, because i am. maybe you can educate me as well about the whole movement. but please, dont you DARE call me names. that i will not tolerate.

clearly with my lack of knowledge about terms, when i say "modern day feminism" and give a description about it i DO NOT mean 'feminism', i mean 'misandry'.

i thought with all this knowledge you posses you would be able to tell the difference between something so simple :)

 

 

PS. in relation to your very last sentence.. in case you cant read properly, i never tried to reinforce anything on anyone. perhaps reading in big letters will help you

 

 

 

Not looking to start a fight just simply speaking my opinion don't want to force anyone to believe anything I do haha

 

@Adam basically summarised everything i wanted to say

 

 

anyways this is a never ending topic

adios amigos


Edited by cute, 14 May 2016 - 02:08 PM.


#331 Frizzle

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 02:35 PM

Feminism. A single word brings up much debate, heated discussion and for some, is one of their main ideologies and how they self-identify. But what is feminism, what is a feminist and how do the actions of feminists and feminism affect the way we live our lives? Now, I have purposely made the question open ended and vague for two reasons; one being that such a complex and diverse issue isn't easy to summarise and two, it's up to each individual to make their own assertions on the topic at hand. Now let's begin.

 

Disclaimer: The vast majority of this opening post will be a mixture of sources/evidence found online due to the fact that 99% of people will not go out and purchase books purely for this conversation alone. Also, the vast majority of references will be about Western cultures/incidents/people etc., mainly concentrated on the UK and USA. If my theories/ideas or evidence don't match up or back up claims to other cultures/countries, well fuck you for being inferior to the grand British Empire. Rule Britannia.

 

WHAT IS FEMINISM?

 

Feminism is a range of political movementsideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. Feminists typically advocate or support the rights and equality of women. (Cheers Wikipedia)

 

Right, so basically a feminist believes that a woman is equal to a man in forms of equality, pay, rights, treatment and sports (ha-ha just kidding, women can’t compete in sports!). Which is a fair enough point and I would find it many to disagree with. Here’s a link to highlight that the majority of people believe women are equal to men, or should be:

 

 http://www.debate.or...-women-be-equal

 

I couldn’t find many more, but I think from anecdotal experience and common sense, the vast majority of people believe women are, or should be, equal to men.

 

Which means everyone’s a feminist and feminism is a force for good right? WRONG.

 

To exemplify why my opinion for feminism being a force for good is an incorrect statement, we have to delve into the history of feminism and women/gender rights.

 

Now let’s take a trip back to memory lane:

 

THE SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT

 

Now I will be summarising the suffrage/suffragette movement to save time and because it’s not entirely important to list all the details. What is important is the reason and impact the suffrage movement had on women’s right.

 

The main purpose of the suffrage movement was to gain the right for women in the UK and US to vote. The most basic of human rights, the ability to cast a vote and influence your country’s rulers/leaders is parallel to none (bar the right to life/not being tortured in my opinion), which shows that pre 19th Century, women were about as equal to men as a handjob is to a blowjob (no-one likes handjobs, just use your mouth).

 

Now, many suffragettes were imprisoned, fined and even beaten purely for protesting the right to vote and be treated as equals, some even died (Emily Davidson famously ran onto a race track and was trampled to death underneath the King’s Horse).

 

Sources: http://mashable.com/...n/#qwBl85.OPkqx

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia...k_Friday_(1910)

 

Source: http://www.theguardi...-strike-protest

 

But, with much bravado and enthusiasm, women were given the right to vote in 1918. Well, women over 30. This was lowered to 21 for men and women in 1928 which was then lowered to 18 in 1969.

 

Source: http://assets.parlia...n_and_the_vote# (trust me, it’s a pretty nifty source, have a gander).

 

So all’s well that ends well right? Wrong again, women and men weren’t equal so feminism had to evolved, adapt and fight again for equality. This meant that feminism is a force for good right? I mean, they’re fighting for equality?

 

But here’s the kicker, we’re talking about modern day feminism, so let’s go forward in time again.

 

FIRST WAVE FEMINISM

 

Now first wave feminism overlaps the suffragette movement, as first wave feminism was a political ideology that ranged from the late 19th to the early 20th Century. Whilst the suffragette movement focused mainly on the right to vote for women, there were many different movements, ideas and incidents aimed at further gender equality.

 

Some examples include The Married Woman Property Association set up in Sweden in 1873 which effectively abolished coverture in Sweden. (Coverture is the legal concept that upon marriage, all decisions were made by the husband. Essentially women were property).

 

Source: http://www.ub.edu/ti...rlsson 5thS.pdf

 

Virginia Woolfe wrote A room of one’s own in 1929 which was based around the advancement of women in literature and independence. Virginia Woolfe is regarded as a prominent feminist

 

Source: I went to fucking school

 

The Married Women’s Property Act 1860 was introduced that gave women more power into their financial and economic status as well as giving them more power in regards to their children’s health, wills etc. Many other acts were introduced in both the UK and USA.

 

Source: http://herstoria.com/?p=473

 

But, women still obviously had to fight for better pay, conditions and socio-economic affects to bring them up to par with men, which leads to..

 

SECOND WAVE FEMINISM

 

Second wave feminism moved on from suffrage and voting rights and focused more on societal effects on women and how society views gender equalities. These include sexuality, family, the workplace, reproductive rights, de facto inequalities, and official legal inequalities.

 

Source: http://www.britannic...womens-movement

 

Multiple examples of women’s protests, movements and challenges to societal treatment and views of women are evident. Let’s take a look:

 

In 1961, the Presidential Commission on the status of women found that women faced inequality in all aspects of life

 

Source: http://www.uic.edu/o...t/timeline.html

 

This lead to many various incidents across Western societies in hopes of achieving equality between the sexes. These include the introduction of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EECC) which allowed people to complain directly the government about inequality in the workplace and recorded over 50,000 complaints in its first years.

 

Source: http://www.iq-tests....system-910.html (don’t ask, it’s right at the very end)

https://www.eeoc.gov/

 

Also, abortion was made legal in the UK for women (under certain circumstances). Unfortunately, N.I still only allows women to have abortions if the birth could harm them, in the incidents of rape/incest, or severe medical issues for the foetus (down’s syndrome, heroin withdrawal, MS etc.)

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...line/1960.shtml

 

In 1966, the National Organisation of Women (NOW) was set up. It’s aims were to establish further equality via protests, marches and demonstrations across the country to influence legislations to help gender equality. It is now the largest women’s union in the US.

 

Source: http://now.org/about/

 

The equal pay act 1970 was introduced and implemented in 1975, making it illegal to pay less or more to an individual based on their gender.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...line/1960.shtml (same source, but it’s BBC and interactive. Sue me)

 

In 1978 the Pregnancy Discrimination Act was introduced to ensure that women cannot be discriminated against for being pregnant.

 

Source: https://www.eeoc.gov...s/pregnancy.cfm

 

Plus, there’s a whole load of shit that happened that was probably important at the time, but I can’t be arsed to mention here. Basically, important shit happened was necessary to set up the building blocks for where we are today.

 

Now on to…

 

THIRD WAVE FEMINISM (oh for fuck sake, so many fucking waves. It’s like a shitty version of Bloons)

 

Third wave feminism  broadened its goals, focusing on ideas like queer theory, and abolishing gender role expectations and stereotypes.[5] Unlike the determined position of second wave feminists about women in pornography, sex work, and prostitution. Thanks Wikipedia.  

 

Third wave feminism was once of the most recent waves to affect gender equality up until around 2010 before “fourth wave feminism” hit. (This part is my own opinion). It focused mainly on reproductive rights, sexuality and gender roles whilst challenging the political infrastructure of both the UK and US political establishments.

 

A few key movements/incidents include:

 

Marital rape was outlawed by the CJPO Act 1994. Just because she’s married to you, doesn’t mean you can always stick your ding dong in her.

 

Source: http://www.legislati...ontents/enacted

 

The March for Women’s right in 2004 was held to highlight the inequality in regards to abortions, child care and child welfare resulting in over hundreds of thousands of protesters marching upon Washington DC

 

Source: https://www.guttmach...ch-womens-lives

 

The Gender Equality Act was introduced in 2006 meaning all statutory bodies (I.E any state organisations such as the police, government, NHS, councils etc.) had to treat all people with equality and made special provisions to ensure that protected characteristics (such as gender, age, race, nationality, disabilities etc.) were not discriminated against.

 

Source: http://www.legislati...uk/ukpga/2006/3

 

In 1998, the Vagina Monologues was set up by Eve Ensler that has so far raised over 75$ million for anti-violence groups, as well as pushing violence against women into the forefront of the national attention, even if it was short lived.

 

Source: http://qsanantonio.com/vday2.html

 

Now up until this point, up until around 2005-2010, I would have argued that yes, feminism is a force for good, but wait, what’s that around the corner? It’s…

 

FOURTH WAVE FEMINISM

 

The fourth wave of feminism is a recent development within the feminist movement. Jennifer Baumgardner identifies fourth-wave feminism as starting in 2008 and continuing into the present day. Kira Cochrane, author of All the Rebel Women: The Rise of the Fourth Wave of Feminism defines fourth wave feminism as a movement that is connected through technology. Researcher, Diana Diamond, defines fourth wave feminism as a movement that "combines politicspsychology, and spirituality an overarching vision of change."  Thank you Wikipedia for allowing me to be such a lazy bastard.

 

 

Now some feminist bird on the fourth wave feminism Wikipedia page states that is began in 2008 and is iconic for its use of technology in its aims of gender equality.

 

Now here’s my main crux of the argument, I will be posting multiple incidents and examples of what feminism has devolved into, which an overall summarisation at the end. If anyone can provide legitimate examples that are iconic and prove that feminism is still a force for good, I would appreciate it. Unfortunately, I cannot find any (I’m talking about massive examples, like Roe v Wade etc., not smaller and less important examples).

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YU3vcvGpALQ

“You’re a fucking white male”

 

Skip to 04:00 minutes in. To summarise, anti-Trump protesters devolve the feminism argument into regarding Caucasian and male opinions on matters as wrong. Ironically there’s actually a few good points made, but to back it up with an inherently racist and sexist argument is stupid, but this is just one incident, right?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=M2KPeMcYsuc

 

“Fat red-head feminist talks bullshit”

 

Evidence of a feminist rally pulling fire alarms in an attempt to shut down and silence a Men’s Right Association. So much for equality and free speech right?

 

 

“Ronda Rousey shuts down feminist”

 

MMA fighter Ronda Rousey counter-argues against a feminist who indicates that women’s soccer player’s in Australia are paid less than men. Ronda’s argument is simple: sports athletes get paid on how much revenue and income they help bring in. A further example of how feminists will push an agenda in regards to equality, yet can’t use cognitive thinking to establish said agenda.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=MNK-e6nnFGY

 

“Suey Park uses racism and sexism to fight racism and sexism”

 

Another exemplification of how the modern day feminist movement resorts to divisive and ironic tactics of using racism and sexism against other people who critique her.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=x64cy3Bcr98

 

 Bill Maher on Feminism: “We're becoming a feminine society. Feelings are more important than facts. Sensitivity is more important than truth. Children are more important than people. Commitment is more important than individuality. And safety is more important than fun. Women say that's good because married men live longer. Well yeah, but so does an indoor cat.”

 

Quite an interesting look on how feminism has helped change the cultural values of America for the worse. This is shining example of how priorities and goals of the feminist movement has essentially devolved into an overtly sensitive society instead of focusing on the empowerment of women. It now focuses on bringing down men instead of raising the standards of women.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=VCaEO6ue_io

 

“Based god rejects feminist ideals”

Milo Yiannopoulos rejects the notions of the feminist argument that purely rejects the biological and chemical differences between the genders.

 

 

MANSPLAINING

 

Mansplaining is a portmanteau of the words man and explaining, defined as "to explain something to someone, typically a man to woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing. Lily Rothman of The Atlantic defines it as "explaining without regard to the fact that the explainee knows more than the explainer, often done by a man to a woman, and author and essayist Rebecca Solnit ascribes the phenomenon to a combination of "overconfidence and cluelessness."

The very sexist notion that when a man explains something to a female counterpart, it’s believed to be condescending and patronising. A focus for the modern day feminist that men are constantly belittling women based purely on their sex. The very idea that if a man explains something he is inherently wrong or sexist himself, is ironically sexist. Feminists who use this term tend to be of little substance and cannot use their own cognitive thought process to come up with compelling arguments. They are usually inherently sexist/racist themselves, so should be disregarded in terms of any form of discussion or argument (personally I believe they should be disregarded as human beings, but that’s another story).

 

Author Cathy Young called it "a pejorative term for supposedly obtuse and arrogant male arguments on gender, apparently now also applied to female dissent."

 

Source: http://reason.com/ar...patriarchy-dead

https://www.youtube....h?v=ZOXh5repOWI

Senator Mitch Fifield counters argument of women who uses term mansplaining by pointing out that it’s a double standard.

 

“Imagine if someone used the term womansplaining”…. Now, imagine if someone used the term “blacksplaining” in which a black individual talks down to a white person. Or use any other form of protected characteristics.

 

Manspreading

 

The idea that men intentionally sit on public transport with legs apart in attempts to take up more than one space. The very idea that feminism has adopted this as a “fight against the patriarchy” is laughable at best. An inherently sexist idea that only men take up more than one space and the disregard to basic human biology. Men have testicles (Source: my skid-marked underwear) which occasionally are crushed by men’s own legs and sometimes they stick to your upper (or lower ;) ) thigh. But biology doesn’t matter in this regard because all that matters is “muh feelings” and a general anti-male prerogative.

 

“The criticism and campaigns against manspreading have been counter-criticized for not addressing similar behaviour by women, such as taking up adjacent seats with bags, or "she-bagging". The controversy surrounding manspreading has been described by libertarian Cathy Young as "pseudo feminism—preoccupied with male misbehaviour, no matter how trivial".

Source: http://www.newsday.c...young-1.9776186

 

The Canadian Association for Equality (CAFE), a Canadian men's rights group, has been critical of campaigns against manspreading by transit authorities. The CAFE has argued that it is "physically painful for men to close their legs" and that campaigns against manspreading is comparable to "[forcing] women to stop breast feeding on busses (sic) or trains".

Source: http://www.theatlant...ng-sexy/475728/

 

Shutting down free speech

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=iARHCxAMAO0

“Double mutherfucking standards”

 

Feminist movement attempts to shut down a MRA meeting by physically assaulting audience members and blocking their freedom of movement. Shouting sexual and gender slurs at people queuing to get in.

 

If there’s one video out of all the one’s I’ve posted, this is the one to watch. It really, really angers me that men who wanted ‘to see a prominent Men’s Right Activist in regards to suicide and why it’s the biggest killer of men under 50 were subjected to abuse and stigmatised by feminists. Equality aye?

 

 

SIDESWIPE

 

This part you can probably ignore if you’re susceptible to confirmation bias. It’s basically a long list of video’s that critique feminists and the feminist movement. All have valid points, but they are long and only back up what I’ve said (or vice versa).

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=3bv6wRRqWZw

Laci Green doesn’t understand feminism

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=91Hc0lrbsO0

Male feminists don’t understand feminism.

https://www.youtube....h?v=UtAByXu_U-I

Onision doesn’t understand feminism

 

https://www.youtube....yEj4eN&index=14

Laci Green doesn’t understand Marketing

 

BONUS VIDEO

https://www.youtube....h?v=ifH998pT7pU

Black Lives Matter (Nothing to do with feminism, but BLM is a load of bullshit as well.)

 

https://www.youtube....pAfrnyX&index=2

Ghostbusters most disliked video on youtube

 

https://www.youtube....pAfrnyX&index=9

Teaching babies not to rape.

 

https://www.youtube....AfrnyX&index=19

Sexual objectification.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=l9Ju-1I1DTU

Anita Sarkeeshian (sp) destroyed.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=PD1bAz07SsY

Feminist attacks prolife protester

 

 

 

Myths and Legends/Counter arguments

 

1.     WOMEN ONLY GET PAID 77% THE SAME AS MEN

 

Ok, this is one of the most common argument for the necessity for feminism and gender equality. Except it’s based on misinformation and manipulation. How so? Let’s see

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=3TR_YuDFIFI

 

“The top five feminist myths”

 

Christina Sommers accurately represents all that statistical errors and manipulation of the “pay gap”

 

http://www.aauw.org/.../2013/02/gra...
http://ec.europa.eu/...ce/gender-eq...
http://www.bls.gov/o...ed/2008/jun/...
http://www.bls.gov/o...ed/2006/oct/...
http://www.consad.co...tent/reports...

 

Various documentation proving that men, on average do not get paid more than women.

 

Let’s summarise this point nice and easily shall we. A study was conducted in the USA in the 1970s which added up all the money earned by women that year, and all the money earned by men that year as well. This equated that men made approximately 23% more money than women. (Source: Couldn’t find that particular study, but there have been many, many, many, many since).

 

This study did not take into account the following circumstances:

 

Men generally work longer than women. This is still true today. Source: http://www.bls.gov/n...se/atus.nr0.htm

 

Men generally work more overtime. Source: http://www.ons.gov.u...visionalresults

 

Men are generally (up until recent years) more educated than women. Source: http://inequality.st...er_research.pdf

 

Men do more dangerous jobs. (Warren Farrell, 2005. It’s a book, go buy it I guess).

 

Men are more willing to negotiate pay. Source (s): http://www.womendontask.com/stats.html

http://www.washingto...2900827_pf.html

http://chronicle.com...-if-they-do/181

 

Men are more awesome. Source: Me

 

Men don’t take as much child leave as women. Source (Pretty much every fucking source for this is a book. There’s sources out there, I just CBA to find them at this time)

 

And so forth.

 

TL:DR, Men generally work longer, negotiate salaries, work in either dangerous or more academically/physically difficult jobs and don’t take off as much time for the kids. Men earn more, but get paid the same. That’s the key difference. It is illegal in both the US and UK to pay women less than men based on sex, and has been for almost 50 years. Source: http://www.legislati...19700041_en.pdf and https://en.wikipedia...Pay_Act_of_1963

 

2.     WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

 

This is actually a true point, but it’s overinflated and used by the Feminist movement to shut down any mention of violence against men. Let’s have a look at the stats

 

1 in 4 women will be affected, 1 in 6 men. Source: http://www.lwa.org.u.../statistics.htm

 

More than 40% of men are victims of domestic abuse. Source: http://www.theguardi...mestic-violence

 

Men and women suffer Inter-partner violence (IPV) at roughly the same amount as women. Women slightly more. Source: http://pubpages.unh....olence-Book.pdf

 

But it’s in self-defence most of the time? Wrong. Only about 20% for women. Source: http://www.batteredm...om/carrgeo1.htm

 

TLDR: Yes, it’s actually at true point, but is minimised by the amount that men suffer from domestic violence.
40-70% of domestic violence is against men however less than 1% of domestic violence shelter spaces are for men. Source: http://www.realsexism.com/

 

3.      BUT THOSE WOMEN/MEN ARE REAL FEMINISTS, THEY’VE DILUTED WHAT FEMINISM ACTUALLY MEANS.

 

Cannot be bothered to source this once since it’s mainly opinion based. Sue me.

 

As stated before, someone who believes the in equality of men and women on all social, sexual and financial standards are regarded as feminists. That means if you believe in that statement you are a feminist. Kinda.

 

That means for every negative feminist attack, physical altercation, censorship, disregard and blatant disregard for other people is still a feminist ideal and a feminist is the one who carries it out. Those who disassociate radical feminists from feminism and say they are not feminists are wrong, and this argument makes it impossible to truly understand their motives and objectives. However, the other side, which argues that all feminists share these motives and objectives, are also wrong. The real answer lies somewhere in the middle.

 

4.      I’m not going to lie; I really cannot be bothered to find more counter arguments at this stage. I’ve spent more time on this than my actual degree.

 

 

Bonus round.

 

Feminism focuses on the equality of sexes on economic, social and sexual standings, but modern day feminism doesn’t focus anywhere near the time and energy it does on men. It is almost purely female dominated and does nothing to address issues that affect men more than women. When MRAs are set up to address this, they are torn down and ridiculed as misogynistic

 

Men are 97% of combat fatalities: http://www.avoicefor...t-men-and-boys/

 

Men pay 97% of child welfare: http://www.wsj.com/a...505700448957522

 

Men lose 84% of child custody cases: http://www.avoicefor...t-men-and-boys/

 

Suicide is 80% men: http://www.avoicefor...t-men-and-boys/.

 

Men make up 77% of murder victims:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1635092

 

Men are 165% more likely to face a custodial sentence than women (pussy pass): http://permutationof...it-probably-has

 

Women’s cancer charities receive 16 times more funding than men: http://mjperry.blogs...gender-gap.html

 

Men are twice as likely to be assaulted or victimised by a stranger: http://www.bjs.gov/c...df/vvcs9310.pdf

 

Now, it would be quite nice if feminist movements concentrated a little bit of some equalities that affect mainly men. It would be nice to be included in a fight for equality, but the current feminist movement does its best to disregard ol’ Mr White male, doesn’t it? Surely an equality movement will need all the help and support it can get, especially from those who are directly affect by inequality?

 

 

I won’t mention the whole Western bias ideal in which feminist movements focus purely on Western ideals. The feminist movement has basically forgotten it’s middle eastern, Asian and African sisters (and men) and focuses on manspreading and mansplaining instead of epidemic rape crises in the Sudan or female genital mutilation in Nigeria and Gambia. But I’ll admit, as I’ve purposely focused on Western incidents and movements, I will let that slide. A different story for a different time.

 

 

SUMMARY

 

Ok, I’ve missed out quite a lot of information that could be used against my argument, and even that could be used for my argument. There is simply too much information out there to include it all.

 

I will summarise my point quite nicely though. Feminism was a force for good when women focused on essential rights like the right to vote, to be treated as individual and to receive the same benefits as a man, but unfortunately this has changed in the modern day sense. Feminists are more likely to use the argument of sexism and racism against opponents in an ironic twist of fate for equality purposes. They will focus more on banal ideas like mansplaining and supermodels in bikinis than, objectively, more important ideals.

 

There are some positives from the current feminist movement, the constant battle for sexual identification and health (Birth control, abortion, prostitution and porn etc.), but in my eyes these are overlooked by systematic racial and sexual discrimination.

 

 

TL: DR feminism was good, now bad. Grr bad feminists.

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER:

 

Again, this is a mixture of source based information and my own opinion, I am trusting you people to be smart enough to decipher which is which.

 

All the source has some form of critique. Smaller participant rate, bias etc., this is obvious in all forms of studies. Don’t point this out, it’s essentially a moot point.

 

If you make a claim and cannot back it up with a source, I will send you a picture of my penis. If this doesn’t scare you, I will constantly send you pictures of kittens being stamped on until you apologise. Don’t dirty my thread up.

 

For obvious reasons I have only linked the youtube videos and hope they don’t pre-load for the sake of people’s computers.

 

 

Done. Seriously. That’s the end.



#332 Adam

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 03:19 PM

Holy fucking shit.

#333 Mishelle

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 03:36 PM

Sexism and racism isn't some kind of card we dole out like yu-gi-oh. The reason women call out sexism is because we experience sexism. The reason women of color call out sexism and racism is because we experience both sexism and racism. It's funny to me how (usually cishetero white men, I'm just calling it like I see it) are the first to bring up videos of radical feminists shaming men or acting ~crazy~ but have nothing to say about the feminists who are out there in these streets working hard as hell every day for sex workers rights, immigrants rights, trans women's rights, prisoners rights, the rights of poor women to keep their children, and equal access to healthcare, No. Not every feminist is just out here trying to free the fucking nipple or silence the free speech of poor unsuspecting white men. There are legitimate feminist issues that are still affecting the most marginalized women of society (aka trans women, undocumented women, women of color, women under the poverty line, incarcerated women, etc) that feminists are out here fighting for every day. That's why I don't feel the need to argue with men who are clearly not working in feminist discourse circles or feminist activist circles who like to say that "modern day feminism is bad" because you can tell by the way they speak that they get most of their information from reddit, tumblr, or wikipedia.

 

Edit: AND FURTHERMORE

 

If I had $100 for every time a man tried to discount my experiences with sexism or a white person discounting my experiences with racism I wouldn't even be here right now. I'd be in my mansion on my private island using $100 bills as tampons.

 

It's not biased against YOU to point out how your privilege is likely to affect how you come at us when we try to speak out about our direct experiences. The fact of the matter is men, especially white ones, have always had their thoughts and feelings represented everywhere. That's not true for women, especially women of color, especially LBT women, especially impoverished women. And honestly the reason we bring that up is because never have I had someone who’s trying to discount my experiences with racism or sexism ever tell me something I haven’t heard before. They usually repeat the same canned excuses. “Feminism isn’t about equality because it doesn’t represent men and our struggles” why are you even asking us to fight for you if you don’t see our movement as valid in the first place? The reason people don’t take MRAs seriously is because they blame women for shit that’s perpetuated institutionally because of patriarchy. Instead of deconstructing and unpacking how patriarchy shapes and affects masculinity, they turn around and blame women for patriarchy slapping them in the face too.

 

The reason male rape is used as a punchline isn’t the fault of women. It’s the fault of patriarchy perpetuating misogyny and femmephobia to the point where the very idea of a man who can’t fight off a rape takes away a man’s perceived masculinity and demotes them to the place of a woman. They have created a very fragile form of masculinity to where it doesn’t matter how a person perceives their own masculinity, all that matters are how OTHER men perceive their masculinity. How is it women’s fault that men are constantly shaming other men for not being big enough, not being strong enough, not fucking enough women or not being a stereotypical douchebro?  They blame women for receiving primary custody when AGAIN that’s not womens’ fault. We didn’t create that shit. That is the fault of engrained patriarchy constantly painting women as natural mothers, claiming that that we’re naturally supposed to be child-rearers even when there’s an entire movement of childfree women who claim otherwise. The majority of judges awarding custody aren’t women, they’re men, so how is this women’s fault? That’s why MRAs aren’t taken seriously, because they’re more concerned with shit talking women than actually getting out here in these streets and trying to dismantle unfair institutions (do you see us calling them meninazis? Nope.) Furthermore I have yet to see a single MRA step up to the plate and address the right of a Black man to not be profiled and brutalized by the police.

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

Women were often told that we're overreacting, being hysterical, and women of color have been told that we're just being angry, or that we're just bringing race into everything. It's gas lighting to try to claim that our perceptions of racism and sexism aren't valid because you can't see it or understand it. And it's really not up to us to have to explain our experiences to you and have you validate them in order for them to truly be valid. That's the epitome of privilege.


Edited by Mishelle, 14 May 2016 - 04:17 PM.


#334 Padme

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 11:08 PM

hey dont know where you got the notion that i dont stand for equality??

and theres no need to abuse or lash out at me and call me a moron lol

call me misinformed, please, because i am. maybe you can educate me as well about the whole movement. but please, dont you DARE call me names. that i will not tolerate.

clearly with my lack of knowledge about terms, when i say "modern day feminism" and give a description about it i DO NOT mean 'feminism', i mean 'misandry'.

i thought with all this knowledge you posses you would be able to tell the difference between something so simple  :)

 

 

PS. in relation to your very last sentence.. in case you cant read properly, i never tried to reinforce anything on anyone. perhaps reading in big letters will help you

 

 

 

 

@Adam basically summarised everything i wanted to say

 

 

anyways this is a never ending topic

adios amigos

 

Wow. Crying laughing right now.

 

Go read your initial responses. By saying that 'modern day feminism' is a JOKE that's where the 'notion' that you don't stand for equality.

Instead you stand for following ignorant notions.

I'm so not the one who needs help reading but thanks for making things big for me.

Using the form IF _________ THEN ________ means that should you follow what comes after the IF you are THEN _____. SO I did NOT call you any name. 

You want to wear that shoe? Go for it. 

You thinking I should be able to decipher that you mean 'misandry' when you say 'modern day feminism' is the same BS as saying I should know you mean 'KKK' when you call someone a 'Christian.' 

Oh and I used misandry in the first response I EVER wrote so if you chose not to know what the term meant and then continue to respond and USE modern day feminism as an appropriate term and propagate your misinformation that is YOUR issue not mine.

 

You did and continue to keep pushing it. You responded to my post initially by basically reiterating what you said before and slapping a 'but i believe in equality' label on it. Doesn't work that way. None of this is opinion based. You don't get to decide what a ideological system is or isn't. 

Touting something as your opinion doesn't make it anymore an opinion based topic than it was/wasn't before.

I am over this I posted this because I refuse to let it be thought that I'm okay or agree with anything you said above.

I'm gonna go take 'all my knowledge' aka basic reading comprehension and try to spread common sense. 

 

 

 

TOOTLES  :shit:



#335 Frizzle

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 01:48 AM

MUH FEELINGS

#336 Kaddict

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 08:06 PM

Hot damn @ Frizzle . Did you write that or copy and paste lots of it? Because that is like a wiki page. I really appreciated the tl;dr and the only part I read was that and whatever came later. I have tons of free time now, but not that much free time.


In any case, the uses of sources deserves a bravo for damned sure



#337 Frizzle

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:39 AM

Nah I wrote it all out myself (other than the links of course). Someone claimed it was an old essay for uni, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't threaten your professor with dick pics.

#338 Kaddict

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 11:01 AM

Nah I wrote it all out myself (other than the links of course). Someone claimed it was an old essay for uni, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't threaten your professor with dick pics.

damn. I think you win the debate thread. 



#339 UnicornSoul

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 12:19 PM

Feminism to me is not what it should be. Feminism to me means equality no matter what sex/gender you are. We all have the right to be treated equally, given the same opportunities. Feminism today has turned into sexism. I refuse to call myself a feminist because of the bad rep some feminist give the name. I consider myself a equalist! And I do not have the time to try and go out into the world a fix the view of feminism. I have other more important things to advocate for.



#340 hotcoldyay

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 01:12 PM

Feminism from back then has changed so much. Its concept, and particularly perception, has basically become girls over guys and let's rise up and empower! Destroy the patriarchy! (Yeah, that's extreme, and I'm sorry if it offended).

 

However, I believe in the old concept, that all genders are equal, and men, women, and those who have yet to make up their minds have equal rights in the eye of the state.

 

I support feminism, and anyone can support feminism. You don't have to be female to do so. Plus, not allowing men to join in on a movement about equal rights because they are men is sexist in itself. And that's just not feminist at all. The only people who aren't supporting feminism are those who are indifferent, those who don't support equal rights, or any other tiny exception out there.



#341 kbexx

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:24 PM

^ you know that saying 'destroy the patriarchy' doesn't mean the same as saying destroy men or that women are superior, right? It means destroy the framework in which men have more power, privilege etc and hold that over women. Why would you want to destroy the patriarchy? idk maybe so there can be gender equality? all those things that men complain about in regards to gender equality, like high male suicide rates, not being allowed to how feelings etc are all things that are improved when you take away the patriarchy. men are impacted by it too. bleh 

 

Anyway, yes, women in the western world have it a lot better than impoverished women in africa. that doesn't mean there isn't sexism that impacts us. Just like men generally have more privilege than women, but still have problems. Funny how things can have layers. There are big things, like inequality in the workplace (which happens), reproductive rights, et al, and then there are smaller things, like getting taxed on tampons (considered a 'luxury' good here, but condoms and lube are considered necessary health products... no fucking joke), mansplaining etc. We can still want to work towards greater equality in the western world while doing things to help improve the situations of people in less fortunate parts of the world.

 

I'm all for men being a part of the conversation, but I do think it is very important that men listen to the opinions and experiences of women, rather than jumping in and talking over us, especially regarding issues that specifically impact women. It's just like white people are welcome in conversations about race, but are encouraged not to presume to speak for POC, or over them. 

 

I may have read like half this thread because it was more than a little entertaining, so I have a lot of things in my head right now.




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