334 replies to this topic

[Adam]

Holy fucking shit.

[Mishelle]

Sexism and racism isn't some kind of card we dole out like yu-gi-oh. The reason women call out sexism is because we experience sexism. The reason women of color call out sexism and racism is because we experience both sexism and racism. It's funny to me how (usually cishetero white men, I'm just calling it like I see it) are the first to bring up videos of radical feminists shaming men or acting ~crazy~ but have nothing to say about the feminists who are out there in these streets working hard as hell every day for sex workers rights, immigrants rights, trans women's rights, prisoners rights, the rights of poor women to keep their children, and equal access to healthcare, No. Not every feminist is just out here trying to free the fucking nipple or silence the free speech of poor unsuspecting white men. There are legitimate feminist issues that are still affecting the most marginalized women of society (aka trans women, undocumented women, women of color, women under the poverty line, incarcerated women, etc) that feminists are out here fighting for every day. That's why I don't feel the need to argue with men who are clearly not working in feminist discourse circles or feminist activist circles who like to say that "modern day feminism is bad" because you can tell by the way they speak that they get most of their information from reddit, tumblr, or wikipedia.

 

Edit: AND FURTHERMORE

 

If I had $100 for every time a man tried to discount my experiences with sexism or a white person discounting my experiences with racism I wouldn't even be here right now. I'd be in my mansion on my private island using $100 bills as tampons.

 

It's not biased against YOU to point out how your privilege is likely to affect how you come at us when we try to speak out about our direct experiences. The fact of the matter is men, especially white ones, have always had their thoughts and feelings represented everywhere. That's not true for women, especially women of color, especially LBT women, especially impoverished women. And honestly the reason we bring that up is because never have I had someone who’s trying to discount my experiences with racism or sexism ever tell me something I haven’t heard before. They usually repeat the same canned excuses. “Feminism isn’t about equality because it doesn’t represent men and our struggles” why are you even asking us to fight for you if you don’t see our movement as valid in the first place? The reason people don’t take MRAs seriously is because they blame women for shit that’s perpetuated institutionally because of patriarchy. Instead of deconstructing and unpacking how patriarchy shapes and affects masculinity, they turn around and blame women for patriarchy slapping them in the face too.

 

The reason male rape is used as a punchline isn’t the fault of women. It’s the fault of patriarchy perpetuating misogyny and femmephobia to the point where the very idea of a man who can’t fight off a rape takes away a man’s perceived masculinity and demotes them to the place of a woman. They have created a very fragile form of masculinity to where it doesn’t matter how a person perceives their own masculinity, all that matters are how OTHER men perceive their masculinity. How is it women’s fault that men are constantly shaming other men for not being big enough, not being strong enough, not fucking enough women or not being a stereotypical douchebro?  They blame women for receiving primary custody when AGAIN that’s not womens’ fault. We didn’t create that shit. That is the fault of engrained patriarchy constantly painting women as natural mothers, claiming that that we’re naturally supposed to be child-rearers even when there’s an entire movement of childfree women who claim otherwise. The majority of judges awarding custody aren’t women, they’re men, so how is this women’s fault? That’s why MRAs aren’t taken seriously, because they’re more concerned with shit talking women than actually getting out here in these streets and trying to dismantle unfair institutions (do you see us calling them meninazis? Nope.) Furthermore I have yet to see a single MRA step up to the plate and address the right of a Black man to not be profiled and brutalized by the police.

 

 

Women were often told that we're overreacting, being hysterical, and women of color have been told that we're just being angry, or that we're just bringing race into everything. It's gas lighting to try to claim that our perceptions of racism and sexism aren't valid because you can't see it or understand it. And it's really not up to us to have to explain our experiences to you and have you validate them in order for them to truly be valid. That's the epitome of privilege.

Edited by Mishelle, 14 May 2016 - 04:17 PM.

[Padme]

hey dont know where you got the notion that i dont stand for equality??

and theres no need to abuse or lash out at me and call me a moron lol

call me misinformed, please, because i am. maybe you can educate me as well about the whole movement. but please, dont you DARE call me names. that i will not tolerate.

clearly with my lack of knowledge about terms, when i say "modern day feminism" and give a description about it i DO NOT mean 'feminism', i mean 'misandry'.

i thought with all this knowledge you posses you would be able to tell the difference between something so simple 

 

 

PS. in relation to your very last sentence.. in case you cant read properly, i never tried to reinforce anything on anyone. perhaps reading in big letters will help you

 

 

 

 

@Adam basically summarised everything i wanted to say

 

 

anyways this is a never ending topic

adios amigos

 

Wow. Crying laughing right now.

 

Go read your initial responses. By saying that 'modern day feminism' is a JOKE that's where the 'notion' that you don't stand for equality.

Instead you stand for following ignorant notions.

I'm so not the one who needs help reading but thanks for making things big for me.

Using the form IF _________ THEN ________ means that should you follow what comes after the IF you are THEN _____. SO I did NOT call you any name. 

You want to wear that shoe? Go for it. 

You thinking I should be able to decipher that you mean 'misandry' when you say 'modern day feminism' is the same BS as saying I should know you mean 'KKK' when you call someone a 'Christian.' 

Oh and I used misandry in the first response I EVER wrote so if you chose not to know what the term meant and then continue to respond and USE modern day feminism as an appropriate term and propagate your misinformation that is YOUR issue not mine.

 

You did and continue to keep pushing it. You responded to my post initially by basically reiterating what you said before and slapping a 'but i believe in equality' label on it. Doesn't work that way. None of this is opinion based. You don't get to decide what a ideological system is or isn't. 

Touting something as your opinion doesn't make it anymore an opinion based topic than it was/wasn't before.

I am over this I posted this because I refuse to let it be thought that I'm okay or agree with anything you said above.

I'm gonna go take 'all my knowledge' aka basic reading comprehension and try to spread common sense. 

 

 

 

TOOTLES 

[Frizzle]

MUH FEELINGS

[Kaddict]

Hot damn @ Frizzle . Did you write that or copy and paste lots of it? Because that is like a wiki page. I really appreciated the tl;dr and the only part I read was that and whatever came later. I have tons of free time now, but not that much free time.

In any case, the uses of sources deserves a bravo for damned sure

[Frizzle]

Nah I wrote it all out myself (other than the links of course). Someone claimed it was an old essay for uni, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't threaten your professor with dick pics.

[Kaddict]

Nah I wrote it all out myself (other than the links of course). Someone claimed it was an old essay for uni, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't threaten your professor with dick pics.

damn. I think you win the debate thread. 

[Jozie]

Feminism to me is not what it should be. Feminism to me means equality no matter what sex/gender you are. We all have the right to be treated equally, given the same opportunities. Feminism today has turned into sexism. I refuse to call myself a feminist because of the bad rep some feminist give the name. I consider myself a equalist! And I do not have the time to try and go out into the world a fix the view of feminism. I have other more important things to advocate for.

[hotcoldyay]

Feminism from back then has changed so much. Its concept, and particularly perception, has basically become girls over guys and let's rise up and empower! Destroy the patriarchy! (Yeah, that's extreme, and I'm sorry if it offended).

 

However, I believe in the old concept, that all genders are equal, and men, women, and those who have yet to make up their minds have equal rights in the eye of the state.

 

I support feminism, and anyone can support feminism. You don't have to be female to do so. Plus, not allowing men to join in on a movement about equal rights because they are men is sexist in itself. And that's just not feminist at all. The only people who aren't supporting feminism are those who are indifferent, those who don't support equal rights, or any other tiny exception out there.

[kbexx]

^ you know that saying 'destroy the patriarchy' doesn't mean the same as saying destroy men or that women are superior, right? It means destroy the framework in which men have more power, privilege etc and hold that over women. Why would you want to destroy the patriarchy? idk maybe so there can be gender equality? all those things that men complain about in regards to gender equality, like high male suicide rates, not being allowed to how feelings etc are all things that are improved when you take away the patriarchy. men are impacted by it too. bleh 

 

Anyway, yes, women in the western world have it a lot better than impoverished women in africa. that doesn't mean there isn't sexism that impacts us. Just like men generally have more privilege than women, but still have problems. Funny how things can have layers. There are big things, like inequality in the workplace (which happens), reproductive rights, et al, and then there are smaller things, like getting taxed on tampons (considered a 'luxury' good here, but condoms and lube are considered necessary health products... no fucking joke), mansplaining etc. We can still want to work towards greater equality in the western world while doing things to help improve the situations of people in less fortunate parts of the world.

 

I'm all for men being a part of the conversation, but I do think it is very important that men listen to the opinions and experiences of women, rather than jumping in and talking over us, especially regarding issues that specifically impact women. It's just like white people are welcome in conversations about race, but are encouraged not to presume to speak for POC, or over them. 

 

I may have read like half this thread because it was more than a little entertaining, so I have a lot of things in my head right now.