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#51 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:37 AM

No, go on. What issues do men face?

(And I'm not getting heated... are you feeling heated?)

 

I am feeling there is some heat here. Forgive me, but that's what I'm picking up from your comments at the moment.

 

The fact that you've decided to say 'what issues do men face?' is revealing that there is no equality in your thinking. Men face issues, albeit in a much more sheltered way. Generally (yes, not all males! O.o) men tend to bottle issues up. Sexual abuse towards males is as prevalent as towards females. Men (once again, generally) carry a great deal of responsibilities (thanks to society's anti-feminist views on gender-roles) leading to depression, increased anxiety. Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.

 

This is one example. You cannot say men do not suffer. We all do.

 

(and yes, you type WAY too fast)


Because I listen.

 

So far you haven't. You've argued with me.


Not at all.

 

I'm glad, because that sure sounded like what you were implying. So, tell me, as a man, you are not exempt from discrimination, are you?



#52 Nymh

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.

 

This is one example. You cannot say men do not suffer. We all do.

 

How does this issue only apply to men?



#53 Sweeney

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

I am feeling there is some heat here. Forgive me, but that's what I'm picking up from your comments at the moment.
 
The fact that you've decided to say 'what issues do men face?' is revealing that there is no equality in your thinking. Men face issues, albeit in a much more sheltered way. Generally (yes, not all males! O.o) men tend to bottle issues up. Sexual abuse towards males is as prevalent as towards females. Men (once again, generally) carry a great deal of responsibilities (thanks to society's anti-feminist views on gender-roles) leading to depression, increased anxiety. Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.
 
This is one example. You cannot say men do not suffer. We all do.
 
(and yes, you type WAY too fast)


I asked you to explain the issues that men face, in your opinion. That doesn't reveal anything about my thinking beyond that I wanted to read your answer to that question.

Yes, men face issues. Issues related to not fitting in with the societal ideal of men and masculinity which was perpetuated by a patriarchal culture. These things are not special or separate from the aims of feminism - they are a part of the problem that feminism is attempting to address.
 

So far you haven't. You've argued with me.


So far, you have not demonstrated that you are worth listening to.

#54 Trichomes

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

Well, this is frustrating.

 

I am a feminist, of course, but the internet has left me somewhat jaded.



#55 Rocket

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

 Men (once again, generally) carry a great deal of responsibilities (thanks to society's anti-feminist views on gender-roles) leading to depression, increased anxiety. Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.

 

What. The. Fuck. 

 

Seriously dude, just stop. Stop talking please.



#56 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:45 AM

Yes, men face issues. Issues related to not fitting in with the societal ideal of men and masculinity which was perpetuated by a patriarchal culture. These things are not special or separate from the aims of feminism - they are a part of the problem that feminism is attempting to address.

 

Thank the lord you mentioned this!!

 

But seriously, this 'load' men carry is one of the foremost issues in our patriarchal society. And as you've said, I don't fit into this category, I'm quite feminine in behaviour, but this concept is greatly burdensome, and I'm glad that I have met men who do open up about this. It's a social expectation, yes. I don't know why you have a problem with it?



#57 Speedracer

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:48 AM

I am feeling there is some heat here. Forgive me, but that's what I'm picking up from your comments at the moment.
 
The fact that you've decided to say 'what issues do men face?' is revealing that there is no equality in your thinking. Men face issues, albeit in a much more sheltered way. Generally (yes, not all males! O.o) men tend to bottle issues up. Sexual abuse towards males is as prevalent as towards females. Men (once again, generally) carry a great deal of responsibilities (thanks to society's anti-feminist views on gender-roles) leading to depression, increased anxiety. Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.

 
If you used actual statistics or gave sources for information you might be a little bit better recieved

"About 1 in 5 women develop depression at some point in life. Women are nearly twice as likely as men to have depression." - Mayo Clinic



#58 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:51 AM

Feeling quite ganged up on. I'm going to leave, as my opinions are not welcome here. It's sad to think that someone can be so unrelenting on an opinion. Anyway, so I'll tell Sweeney what he wants to hear - You're right.


 
If you used actual statistics or gave sources for information you might be a little bit better recieved

"About 1 in 5 women develop depression at some point in life. Women are nearly twice as likely as men to have depression." - Mayo Clinic

 

Agree with you here, but I've had enough.



#59 Jess

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:54 AM

But seriously, this 'load' men carry is one of the foremost issues in our patriarchal society. And as you've said, I don't fit into this category, I'm quite feminine in behaviour, but this concept is greatly burdensome, and I'm glad that I have met men who do open up about this. It's a social expectation, yes. I don't know why you have a problem with it?

Sorry. I've been trying to stay out of this. (I'm a woman, just in case it's not clear)

Is the male load one of the foremost issues? More women work today than ever before, there are more two-income families than any other time in history, there are even stay-at-home dads. I am looked down on by my family and others because I stay at home and don't bring in cash money bi-weekly. It is cheaper for one of us to stay at home than it is for us to both work and I am still pressured to leave my children with strangers and go spend all my time (and money) doing something I hate. I don't see the 'male load of a family' as a foremost issue, when there's an article every month about how more and more men are living with their parents to save money and women aren't getting married until they establish a career. This isn't the 30s where men have 9 mouths to feed. We live in a world where people expect you to be done baby-making at two kids.



#60 Sweeney

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:03 AM

Thank the lord you mentioned this!!
 
But seriously, this 'load' men carry is one of the foremost issues in our patriarchal society. And as you've said, I don't fit into this category, I'm quite feminine in behaviour, but this concept is greatly burdensome, and I'm glad that I have met men who do open up about this. It's a social expectation, yes. I don't know why you have a problem with it?


What part of "yes, men face issues" indicates that I have a problem with the idea that men have issues?
The fact is that the societal pressures on both men and women alike come from the same source, and women have far more numerous and far more harmful things to deal with than men do. I am currently a stay-at-home father. My career is in a female-dominated field. I have dealt with clinical depression that I felt unable to talk about. I think there are bigger problems in the world than that, but that in working towards solving the bigger problems, it will help alleviate the problems that I have faced also.

It's sad that you feel you have to leave. We haven't even gotten onto your opinions on abortion yet. That was going to be fun.
Thank you for facetiously acknowledging my correctness, though. It goes a long way toward making you look like a petulant child.

#61 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:05 AM

It's sad that you feel you have to leave. We haven't even gotten onto your opinions on abortion yet. That was going to be fun.

 

 

 

Tomorrow. Too late today.



#62 Sweeney

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:06 AM

It's sad that you feel you have to leave. We haven't even gotten onto your opinions on abortion yet. That was going to be fun.
 
 
 
Tomorrow. Too late today.


So... you're not leaving?

#63 Trichomes

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:08 AM

The fact that you've decided to say 'what issues do men face?' is revealing that there is no equality in your thinking. Men face issues, albeit in a much more sheltered way. Generally (yes, not all males! O.o) men tend to bottle issues up. Sexual abuse towards males is as prevalent as towards females. Men (once again, generally) carry a great deal of responsibilities (thanks to society's anti-feminist views on gender-roles) leading to depression, increased anxiety. Carrying a load as big as a family is hard.

 

This comment is just oozing with ignorance. It's already been picked apart, but I'd also like to point out that about 1 in 10 sexual assault victims is male (RAINN). Ten percent is hardly "as prevalent." Don't make generalizations if you expect others to do the same.



#64 Frizzle

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:10 AM

 
If you used actual statistics or gave sources for information you might be a little bit better recieved

"About 1 in 5 women develop depression at some point in life. Women are nearly twice as likely as men to have depression." - Mayo Clinic

 

That's because depression in men is highly, highly unreported. Men have the social stigma of "being strong" and ideas like not crying in public etc.. We're supposed to have the strong upper lip. If men are committing suicide roughly three times more than women, doesn't that suggest more men are suffering from depression then originally thought? (Source: Royal College of Psychiatrists). 



#65 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:10 AM

So... you're not leaving?

 

Yes. People have to sleep.

 

 

This comment is just oozing with ignorance. It's already been picked apart, but I'd also like to point out that about 1 in 10 sexual assault victims is male (RAINN). Ten percent is hardly "as prevalent." Don't make generalizations if you expect others to do the same.

 

Oh, so RAINN knows every sexual assault that's ever happened.

 

It's 2am here, and I'm tired, but I just cannot seem to leave. :lol2: :lol2:



#66 Frizzle

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

This comment is just oozing with ignorance. It's already been picked apart, but I'd also like to point out that about 1 in 10 sexual assault victims is male (RAINN). Ten percent is hardly "as prevalent." Don't make generalizations if you expect others to do the same.

 

Most likely due to under reporting again and the social construct that men are supposed to enjoy. Or it could be due to the fact that men don't really care as much as women. That's not to trivialize the matter but I can't count the amount of times I was sexually assaulted in my previous job as a bar tender and even in my current job. It just doesn't affect me so I wouldn't report it, but a women is more likely to. 



#67 Sweeney

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

Yes. People have to sleep.


But... you're going to bed. Not leaving because your "opinions aren't welcome here".

#68 Trichomes

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

Oh, so RAINN knows every sexual assault that's ever happened.

 

It's 2am here, and I'm tired, but I just cannot seem to leave. :lol2: :lol2:

 

Obviously statistics only apply to reported cases. Go to bed.

 

Most likely due to under reporting again and the social construct that men are supposed to enjoy. Or it could be due to the fact that men don't really care as much as women. That's not to trivialize the matter but I can't count the amount of times I was sexually assaulted in my previous job as a bar tender and even in my current job. It just doesn't affect me so I wouldn't report it, but a women is more likely to. 

 

I realize men are a lot less likely to report sexual assault for a variety of reasons, and I wasn't trying to argue that the statistics are totally accurate. Heck, they're from 2003. Still, there's a huge gap between 90% and 10%. Taking that into consideration, I'm going to assume that even though cases are under-reported, the number of male victims is not the same as the number of female victims, which is what Magical implied.


Edited by Trichomes, 11 April 2014 - 08:24 AM.


#69 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:14 AM

Both, hun, both. But if you want to pick a fight, then go ahead.


Obviously statistics only apply to reported cases. Go to bed.

 

Obviously @[email protected]



#70 luvsmyncis

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:15 AM

Feeling quite ganged up on. I'm going to leave, as my opinions are not welcome here. It's sad to think that someone can be so unrelenting on an opinion.

You are not hearing what people who understand feminism are saying to you.

Wow, this is a mess.

Men are always holding some doors open for us, expecting a thank-you while simultaneously slamming other doors in our faces. Not all men. Some men understand what's going on.

I had a feeling Magical was thinking Sweeney was a female. The use of the word "hun" in an argument gave it away. Hey girls, raise your hand if you've been called 'hun' or 'darling' or 'sweetie' by someone trying to make a point of why you are wrong. Now raise your hand if you feel like when they called you that, what they really meant to call you was 'stupid'.
I would just like to reiterate the point I made early on that people get really upset and make excuses and denials when you ask them acknowledge the divide. This topic is supposed to be about feminism, but instead it's become a clusterfuck of someone trying to validate the feelings and pain of people who are not women.

It is totally stressful to provide for your family, especially if you are the breadwinner. Guess what makes it harder and even more stressful? Getting paid less simply because you are female. Not being taken seriously because of your gender. Everyone suffers, that's right. But some people suffer more than others. Once you realize that, you can acknowledge you're 'lucky', and try to do your best to be a better, smarter person.
 

[/i]I am looked down on by my family and others because I stay at home and don't bring in cash money bi-weekly. It is cheaper for one of us to stay at home than it is for us to both work and I am still pressured to leave my children with strangers and go spend all my time (and money) doing something I hate.

Well, that's just great. I bet if you had a job you'd be demonized for not caring about your kids.

We're supposed to have the strong upper lip.

That's a big problem. If society didn't view women as the weaker sex, men would no longer have to pretend to be stronger.

#71 MissToad

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:17 AM

To be fair and I don't know if this is a "man's problem" but you can look at the situation where the man stays home to care for children aka John Lennon.  Society does consider this unusual and a huge mark on a resume that a man took time to care for his children.   My father took a year off when I was 1-2.

 

Vukzb5Q.png



#72 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

You are not hearing what people who understand feminism are saying to you.

Wow, this is a mess.

Men are always holding some doors open for us, expecting a thank-you while simultaneously slamming other doors in our faces. Not all men. Some men understand what's going on.

I had a feeling Magical was thinking Sweeney was a female. The use of the word "hun" in an argument gave it away. Hey girls, raise your hand if you've been called 'hun' or 'darling' or 'sweetie' by someone trying to make a point of why you are wrong. Now raise your hand if you feel like when they called you that, what they really meant to call you was 'stupid'.
I would just like to reiterate the point I made early on that people get really upset and make excuses and denials when you ask them acknowledge the divide. This topic is supposed to be about feminism, but instead it's become a clusterfuck of someone trying to validate the feelings and pain of people who are not women.

It is totally stressful to provide for your family, especially if you are the breadwinner. Guess what makes it harder and even more stressful? Getting paid less simply because you are female. Not being taken seriously because of your gender. Everyone suffers, that's right. But some people suffer more than others. Once you realize that, you can acknowledge you're 'lucky', and try to do your best to be a better, smarter person.


Well, that's just great. I bet if you had a job you'd be demonized for not caring about your kids.

 

 

Lol, I don't agree. And sure, you only know me from what I've said here, but don't tell me to be a better smarter person. It's just dumb.



#73 Speedracer

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

That's because depression in men is highly, highly unreported. Men have the social stigma of "being strong" and ideas like not crying in public etc.. We're supposed to have the strong upper lip. If men are committing suicide roughly three times more than women, doesn't that suggest more men are suffering from depression then originally thought? (Source: Royal College of Psychiatrists). 

Just an example of using statistics to support an argument, most statistics are misleading. I'm a guy, I'm fully aware of the don't express emotions pressure.



#74 Magical

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:23 AM

Just an example of using statistics to support an argument, most statistics are misleading. I'm a guy, I'm fully aware of the don't express emotions pressure.

 

Lol, then they obviously don't support it...



#75 Dita

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:25 AM


 

The use of the word "hun" in an argument gave it away. Hey girls, raise your hand if you've been called 'hun' or 'darling' or 'sweetie' by someone trying to make a point of why you are wrong. Now raise your hand if you feel like when they called you that, what they really meant to call you was 'stupid'.

 

Santana_raising_hand.gif


Also... Sexual abuse of men is not as prevalent. Sorry, but it's just not :/ (Not to diminish the men who have been sexually abused, I'll make that clear...)


Edited by lozpoz, 11 April 2014 - 08:24 AM.



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