263 replies to this topic

[Fikri]

good luck to those applying! the requirements seem reasonable. gonna wait another 2/3 months before applying.

[Drakonid]

What this thread is becoming:

I disagree, and this is, in my opinion, one of the current problems with codex, once a discussion starts, people label it as a pissing contest, threads get closed, posts deleted, etc.

[Drakonid]

I don't see any deleted posts.

yet.

It's funny that stating an opinion is considered a problem with Neocodex though.

that's not what I said.

[Fikri]

i knew there was some argument in here when i saw the no. of pages.

[Nymh]

No one asked me, but I'm growing quite bored of this one-dimensional argument so I'm jumping in.

 

In my opinion, and understand that I am the second newest member of Retired (having been promoted just shy of two years ago) so this may be taken with a grain of salt:  Retired doesn't NEED a specific nomination and/or voting criteria.  Yes, it's an elite club.  Yes, no one really understands or can explain how to get in because there isn't a rigid selection criteria.  But that doesn't mean that those of us who are actually active don't consider and discuss people to nominate, that we don't occasionally hold discussions on up-and-comers on the forum, that we don't pay attention to anything going on below us.  We do.  Some of us even hold conversations about members in private among ourselves, discussing members and why or why not they are/were/should be/won't ever be Retired.  No, it's not a constant thing.  No, people don't get promoted very often.  It's mysterious, but not that hard to figure out.  Make friends, cultivate relationships, contribute, stand out, and stick around.

 

Have you ever seen someone in Retired ask, "Who?"  Does that piss you off?  Maybe it shouldn't.  Maybe you should ask yourself, what has that member really done to get noticed?  If all a member is doing is posting a few times a day, doing the same thing everyone else is doing, they kind of blend into the crowd.  It takes a long time for someone like that to become memorable.  You have to keep in mind that the people in Retired have been on this site for YEARS.  Some have been for a decade.  They've seen literally thousands of members come and go.  Ever run into one of your elementary school teachers after 10 years out of their class?  Did they recognize you?  Before you told them what your name was?  They probably did the polite thing and pretended to remember you, but chances are they are pretty practiced at doing so because everyone thinks that they made an impression great enough to be remembered by someone who interacted with them for a few months several years ago.  Simply being here for a while and being nice and contributing to the forum, while promising for future upward mobility, isn't really enough to make the cut... and you can't really clearly define what is when there are so many variables (users) to take into consideration and such a long history of users to compare them to.

 

[Ali]

 

i knew there was some argument in here when i saw the no. of pages. 

 

Drama breeds activity. It's why the boards most active periods coincide with the most nonsense.

No one asked me, but I'm growing quite bored of this one-dimensional argument so I'm jumping in.

NOBODY ASKED YOU.

But yeah, agreed entirely and part of why it would help for Private to be back as an intermediary rank. There are hundreds of members and they come and they go and it is difficult to differentiate between them. Retired folk will tell you most conversations result in me going "Whoooo?! Who ARE they? Why don't I knooow them? I thought that was x" about 5 times. If that pool is whittled down a bit, it's easier to forge friendships, notice who's a really great member and suggest them for retired.

[Nymh]

NOBODY ASKED YOU.

 

Don't make me try to come up with witty retorts!  I'll just awkwardly flirt with you instead, and then it'll get all weird.

[Bone]

Yes, no one really understands or can explain how to get in

 

Make friends, cultivate relationships, contribute, stand out, and stick around.

 

Checkmate.

[Nymh]

Checkmate.

 

 

Suggestions for being noticed, not criteria for being promoted.

[Ali]

 

 

Checkmate.

 

You might do all those things and still not get it though. We're a funny old bunch. You might stand out for the wrong reasons. You might not talk to any of us. It really is just a very subjective selection.

[Bone]

Suggestions for being noticed, not criteria for being promoted.

 

You might do all those things and still not get it though. We're a funny old bunch. You might stand out for the wrong reasons. You might not talk to any of us. It really is just a very subjective selection.

 

Yeah, I'm not even going to claim to know how Retired functions.  

 

I always view/ed Retired as less of a 'goal' or something to work towards than an exclusive, probably overrated country club. Maybe I just lack ambition.

[Nymh]

I always view/ed Retired as less of a 'goal' or something to work towards than an exclusive, probably overrated country club. Maybe I just lack ambition.

 

No, you're pretty much spot-on

[NapisaurusRex]

Yeah, I'm not even going to claim to know how Retired functions.

 

I always view/ed Retired as less of a 'goal' or something to work towards than an exclusive, probably overrated country club. Maybe I just lack ambition.

Same. I think it's just because Random's in there though.

[Ali]

Yeah, I'm not even going to claim to know how Retired functions.

 

I always view/ed Retired as less of a 'goal' or something to work towards than an exclusive, probably overrated country club. Maybe I just lack ambition.

Yeah, pretty much that. And I've spent a good 8 years propped against the bar with a gin and tonic in hand.

[Elindoril]

I'm not old enough to be part of a country club yet. Get me out of here.

[Doomsday]

From what I saw, entry to retired wasn't solely based on time but it was more based on a popularity contest with the active members of retired. Put simply, if they don't like you, chances are you're not getting in.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with the retired members. A majority are no longer active therefor shouldn't really get the benefits of the new rank but I'm sure if they were to return to activity it wouldn't take them long to achieve access to the new Private rank and associated subforums.

I'm not sure how the admins feel about it as a solution but it would be possible to assign Private access as a secondary usergroup under Retired to those Retired members who are still actually active without the requirement for a 'demotion'. Just being retired shouldn't be taken as a reason that you get into Private and in any case you should still be required to apply.

redlion is the Private leader, so I'm sure discussions between him and the staff will be taken to finalise further details once as the system undergoes more changes and refining. Not sure why everyone needs to kick a big fuss when something new is trying to be introduced into the forums to once again bolster activity with newer members who have at this stage reached the pinnacle of their advancement on the forums because there's no clear goal to get into an upper usergroup over Advanced+

Another question that is actually on topic and not made to derail the topic;
Will members who are promoted to the Private rank be demoted if they do not continue to contribute to the forums (and by contribute I mean stay active and continue to post, as it's not always possible to keep up the same level of activity such as contribution to programming or art forever due to time constraints based on real life chances)?

Edited by Doomsday, 14 April 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[redlion]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with the retired members.  A majority are no longer active therefor shouldn't really get the benefits of the new rank but I'm sure if they were to return to activity it wouldn't take them long to achieve access to the new Private rank and associated subforums.
 
I'm not sure how the admins feel about it as a solution but it would be possible to assign Private access as a secondary usergroup under Retired to those Retired members who are still actually active without the requirement for a 'demotion'.   Just being retired shouldn't be taken as a reason that you get into Private and in any case you should still be required to apply. 
 
redlion is the Private leader, so I'm sure discussions between him and the staff will be taken to finalise further details once as the system undergoes more changes and refining.  Not sure why everyone needs to kick a big fuss when something new is trying to be introduced into the forums to once again bolster activity with newer members who have at this stage reached the pinnacle of their advancement on the forums because there's no clear goal to get into an upper usergroup over Advanced+
 
Another question that is actually on topic and not made to derail the topic;
Will members who are promoted to the Private rank be demoted if they do not continue to contribute to the forums (and by contribute I mean stay active and continue to post, as it's not always possible to keep up the same level of activity such as contribution to programming or art forever due to time constraints based on real life chances)?

Most Retired members were voted into Private back in the day. There are maybe ten Retireds that have been voted into Retired outright since Private was decommissioned, but they've still been awarded our highest user rank, Retired. Waser Lave is neither, yet both. Quite the paradoxical kinda guy.

We've been discussing all of the options you mentioned (secondary userclass, activity demotions) among others both among the staff and with the Retired members. At this point, we're keeping our options open.

Right now I just want to hold a sign up that says "Go apply!" so we can talk about the applications happening right now instead of what may happen down the road.

[Frizzle]

From what I saw, entry to retired wasn't solely based on time but it was more based on a popularity contest with the active members of retired. Put simply, if they don't like you, chances are you're not getting in.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with the retired members. A majority are no longer active therefor shouldn't really get the benefits of the new rank but I'm sure if they were to return to activity it wouldn't take them long to achieve access to the new Private rank and associated subforums.

I'm not sure how the admins feel about it as a solution but it would be possible to assign Private access as a secondary usergroup under Retired to those Retired members who are still actually active without the requirement for a 'demotion'. Just being retired shouldn't be taken as a reason that you get into Private and in any case you should still be required to apply.

What's the issues with non-active members of retired having automatic access to private. They won't be able to use any of the perks and if they do become active, they can use them due to the fact that they earned it.

Bare in mind most of the inactive retired members are ex-moderators, ex-super moderators, ex-admin, ex-programming team, ex-graphics team etc

They're the ones you need to thank for bringing you this site and you agree with excluding them from a section if they ever came back?

Retired is a rank above private. End of. A retired user should get all the benefits or a private member and more, not the other way around. The fact the administration team wants to go around that seems counter productive and quite ridiculous really.

It's the equivalent of getting a members of the admin team to apply for advanced...

[Doomsday]

I know exactly what the retired rank is. And yes I stand by the fact they shouldn't receive automatic entry into a new rank simply because they are in that user group. IMO retired shouldn't really be the highest rank but that's not the discussion here. If you retire from a large company even if you were CEO or on the board, you don't retain all your company privileges that you may have spent 20-30 years working for do you?

And if I recall correctly, with the dissolving of the previous private rank, these people were automatically moved to retired as well so. There no point going back and moving them all to private again because there's plenty of them that aren't still active.

I don't disagree with allowing them to apply to private whilst retaining their retired moniker but having an old title shouldn't generate a bit of self entitlement. I don't disagree with previous contributions to the forums being taken into account either which means that for those retired members who are current, they should still gain access to private but they should still follow the application process (it's just more likely your application will go through sooner)

[NapisaurusRex]

Ler's delete everyone's account and start over.

[redlion]

Ler's delete everyone's account and start over.

Believe it or not, we've actually tried that.

On at least one occasion, the entirety of the private member pool was demoted. It was done in an effort to keep the rank for active members, but when not everyone who re-applied was voted back in, chaos ensued.

I tend to have a "once earned, always kept" attitude with ranks. I think each rank recognizes your contribution, and it'd be kind of mean to say you no longer deserve the rewards for those contributions. Plus it's just a pain to demote people.

[Fikri]

can someone explain to me why some members have "private" as their last login status? eg. @Kordelia. is she private too?