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Why true anonymity on the internet is fake


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#1 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:19 PM

So lets get right into it. I'm going to show you guys why you can't really be anonymous on the internet. (From the feds) So if your thinking about doing something illegal and stupid, don't.
 
 
Okay, so lets start with how the internet works.
 
Lets say you send a message on skype.
 
 
[You]-> [ISP]-> [Skype]->[Your friend]
 
But that's not it. Guess what your ISP does. That's right, it keeps logs and gives them to the NSA.
 
So a log for the ip range 123.456.22.* may be something like this.
Spoiler
 
Obviously it would be huge, with better data than that.
The NSA currently has the right to search threw every one of those packets and see's whats in them. So, what if we encrypt out internet traffic? Guess what, if they can get a warrant they can crack it! (:
Or maybe you use SSL to connect to facebook and the NSA wants to know what you sent to facebook, they can ask facebook for their key, if they say yes (they most likely will) they can easily decrypt the data.
If facebook does not comply they can get a warrent.
 
"I used a proxy/vpn, so I'm safe, right?", No. Your not. The internet log would look like this.
 
Spoiler
 
The fbi/nsa will go to this datacenter with a warrant and ask to see the logs, of course it they don't have logs even more legal bullshit will go on. They will probably seize and backdoor the proxy/vpn server. You get busted.
 
"Tor is safe isn't it?", nope.
Tor is the same concept as above, but you send a connection to a new server every time, of course that means its harder to find, but they can still catch you since tor nodes are becoming more, and more known.
 
"I go to a coffee shop to hack", guess what, you can get caught too!
You connect at the coffee shop. The coffee shop logs what you do with your mac address. The feds just have to get these logs, contact the manufacturer, find what store your computer was sold to and ask the store (lets say bestbuy) they ask best buy how you bought your computer, lets say you payed with a CreditCard. The feds now know who you are. They find you, and bam you've been caught.
 
So to sum this all up, if you want to know the safest way to hack something and not get caught, it's to not do it. I mean sure the feds may not bother to go down to chain to find you, but if you do something illegal enough and become wanted they will.
 
If you really want to be as safe as possible, I do recommend using an off-shore vpn that doesn't keep logs. I recommend always using SSL, and to not give yourself a name for the feds to search for. For internet browsing tor is nice, even though its getting butt fucked with the 'Tors Hammer' DDoS method and Tor BotNets that have become popular lately.
 
I take no credit for this i just found it interesting and figured i should share it for informational purposes 
Full credit goes to Decision (on a different form)

Edited by MichaelA, 18 June 2014 - 05:42 PM.


#2 Tetiel

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

Yep. Time to get the tinfoil hat going. Thankfully I don't do much the government would care about. I think.



#3 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:32 PM

Even the NSA has trouble with people using the Tor network :)

Yes it makes them finding you more expensive but in the end if they are looking for you the will find you :D

Moral of the story don't think that just because your using a vpn or proxy that you can go and try and ddos microsoft or google and they wont find you


Edited by MichaelA, 18 June 2014 - 05:33 PM.


#4 Grimley

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:57 PM

Hey it's not like any of this should be a surprise, or considered something that avoidance ever even had a chance with since it all began on Day 1; after all, the internet was largely (if not pretty fucking close to entirely) started by DARPA...sure, I'll Google that federal agency for you:zen:

 

For damn sure, it wasn't invented by this dude though:

 

al-gore-internet-thumb.jpg



#5 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:59 PM

Hey it's not like any of this should be a surprise, or considered something that avoidance ever even had a chance with since it all began on Day 1; after all, the internet was largely (if not pretty fucking close to entirely) started by DARPA...sure, I'll Google that federal agency for you:zen:

 

For damn sure, it wasn't invented by this dude though:

 

al-gore-internet-thumb.jpg

ya lol but every once in a while you get those people who think they are invincible behind a vpn or proxy



#6 Elindoril

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:04 PM

Shoot I better stop hacking the FBI now.

#7 Grimley

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:05 PM

ya lol but every once in a while you get those people who think they are invincible behind a vpn or proxy

 

That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, I replied off the cuff (perhaps because I'm a federal contractor and thus have a pretty large awareness of how electronic interactions of any sort are 10,000% scrutinized with ease and regularity), but in no way do I consider the topic unimportant! Quite the contrary, it's something everyone should know more about.



#8 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:08 PM

That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, I replied off the cuff (perhaps because I'm a federal contractor and thus have a pretty large awareness of how electronic interactions of any sort are 10,000% scrutinized with ease and regularity), but in no way do I consider the topic unimportant! Quite the contrary, it's something everyone should know more about.

Exactly how i feel, i feel like people should understand they can never be 100% anonymous on the internet



#9 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:25 PM

Well, Tails might be the answer to this "dilemma". The world's most secure operating system, it's unlikely that the NSA would be able to access a computer with Tails installed. http://www.theverge....you-ll-ever-own

"There’s a long list of computers that can’t run the OS, and it includes most of the computers made by Apple."



#10 Bone

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:35 PM

"There’s a long list of computers that can’t run the OS, and it includes most of the computers made by Apple."

 

Okay?



#11 Sweeney

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:00 PM

The real lesson here is not to use a credit card to buy hacking tools.

#12 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:04 PM

Okay?

it also leads to a list of issues which could leak stop it from being anonymous

 

The real lesson here is not to use a credit card to buy hacking tools.

The truth :D



#13 anewvision

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:23 PM

Which is precisely why I do all of my terrorist organizing at the local Starbucks :thumbsup:

 

I'll wait for the feds now :lol2:



#14 Elindoril

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:27 PM

Any fool that leaves a trace deserves to get arrested.

Of course real hackers hack websites within an incognito window. No cookies or browsing history means no proof. :cool:

#15 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:45 PM

Any fool that leaves a trace deserves to get arrested.

Of course real hackers hack websites within an incognito window. No cookies or browsing history means no proof. :cool:

Attached File  lol.png   144.63KB   0 downloads



#16 Elindoril

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:53 PM

attachicon.giflol.png


It was a joke.

#17 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:53 PM

It was a joke.

ik :D



#18 Frizzle

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:31 PM

You seriously think the Kremlin, China, the FBI/CIA/NSA and SIS/Mi5 cannot track you? They have billion/trillion dollar systems in tracking down the most wanted people and terrorists. Surprisingly they don't give a shit about your internet dating messages or cat pictures.

#19 MichaelA

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:34 PM

You seriously think the Kremlin, China, the FBI/CIA/NSA and SIS/Mi5 cannot track you? They have billion/trillion dollar systems in tracking down the most wanted people and terrorists. Surprisingly they don't give a shit about your internet dating messages or cat pictures.

Thank you :D



#20 CaptainDantes

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 05:40 AM

I second that thank you.



#21 Boggart

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:06 AM

So I should delete my CP?



#22 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:21 AM

So I should delete my CP?

Just eat the cheese pizza... no need for deletion.



#23 Stephen

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:47 PM

There are a few things I wanted to say:

 

Using a public WiFi hotspot is a 100% surefire way to not get caught, so long as you take the appropriate precautions. The MAC address of your NIC is easily spoofed via software, meaning that you can conceal the true hardwire ID of your NIC.

 

Facebook don't give the NSA an SSL key so they can 'decrypt' your data -- your chat logs are stored in a plain text format in their databases. The only time the data is in an encrypted form is during the time it's travelling to and from the webserver. When you or the facebook servers recieve the information, it's in plain text. This is why you are able to see your chat history in your message windows.

 

For anyone who is not aware, there isn't a mandatory data retention law for ISP's in the US, meaning that no ISP has a legal requirement to log or store data about your internet usage.

 

Numerous VPN services exist that advertise storing no information about you at all, having all forms of logging disabled, and sharing a single IP address with many people. This is completely legal. These services exist in many countries, meaning that it's extremely easy for you to choose a service hosted in a country that either doesn't acknowledge the laws in your country, or wont respond to a petty 'warrant', should you be concerned. On the event that a warrant is presented and the company complies -- if they have no logs or data stored about you, the warrant achieves next to nothing.

 

At any case, I wouldn't advise of performing illegal tasks online, but for the purposes of online security, hiding your actions online and being 'anonymous' for petty purposes such as copyright piracy, as an example, a VPN is a sure way to protect yourself.




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