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Athletic Scholarships for LoL Gamers!

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#51 Romy

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:25 PM

That's just the emotional value you choose to place on these things. There's no inherent/intrinsic value in any of these things, feel free to prove me wrong.

There technically isn't any kind of inherent or intrinsic value in anything...



#52 DonValentino

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:27 PM

That's just the emotional value you choose to place on these things. There's no inherent/intrinsic value in any of these things, feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Well considering intrinsic value is generally known to mean "inward value"  as in, what value these things hold for me (emotional value), and the answer being a lot, these things have tremendous intrinsic value.

Perhaps you meant instrumental value, as in what do they actually contribute to society, and I'd argue that the answer is again, a lot. The music and film industries are enormous, and some art sells for millions of dollars. People make livings off of writing novels and plays. I could get more in depth with my answer, but I think you get the picture. 



#53 seraph

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:37 PM

People misunderstood me because they did not read my posts, and you are misunderstanding me because you did not read this thread. 

I never said football or chess or more worthwhile to society than e-sports, nor did I use the words disgusting or wrong in that context. 

My opinion is that sports scholarships in general shouldn't exist for higher education and learning.. so of course I would have a similar opinion for e-sports.

 

I don't have some sort of strange grudge against people who play video games or those who play LoL.. considering I play the game, myself.  :rolleyes: I just don't think playing video games should be rewarded by colleges/considered an accomplishment in life, or a worthwhile career choice. My opinion is my own to have and it's the same across the board. 

 

I did read the thread but yeah I confused some posts of another blue person with yours. My bad~ :sorry:  Consider my posts redirected to the likes of DonWhatever and Keil. I actually agree with you on that, sports scholarships should not exist but since they do and there's no chance of them going away anytime soon, it's only fair that e-sports scholarships exist too. I find hypocrisy and inconsistency repulsive. The "MUH SPORTS" attitude reeks of extreme stupidity, I don't know how deluded you have to be to think these things aren't equally worthless and get all worked up about them receiving equal treatment.


 

Well considering intrinsic value is generally known to mean "inward value"  as in, what value these things hold for me (emotional value), and the answer being a lot, these things have tremendous intrinsic value.

Perhaps you meant instrumental value,

 

No. I meant intrinsic value. That is not even close to what intrinsic value means. 

 

"Intrinsic value is an ethical and philosophic property. It is the ethical or philosophic value that an object has "in itself" or "for its own sake", as an intrinsic property. An object with intrinsic value may be regarded as an end or (in Kantian terminologyend-in-itself.[1]

It is contrasted with instrumental value (or extrinsic value), the value of which depends on how much it generates intrinsic value."

 

 

 

The music and film industries are enormous, and some art sells for millions of dollars. People make livings off of writing novels and plays. I could get more in depth with my answer, but I think you get the picture. 

 

Literally everything you said applies to e-sport and video games.

 

 

 

There technically isn't any kind of inherent or intrinsic value in anything... 

 

Correct, everything is equally worthless and feverishly judging things based on your personal preference acting like it's a fact is silly n_n


Edited by seraph, 02 October 2014 - 01:40 PM.


#54 Batori

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:40 PM

Echoing the general sentiment that academic scholarships would be better. It's interesting how games are becoming more accepted as sports, though.



#55 Kat

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

No problem.

 

 I actually agree with you on that, sports scholarships should not exist but since they do and there's no chance of them going away anytime soon, it's only fair that e-sports scholarships exist too. I find hypocrisy and inconsistency repulsive. The "MUH SPORTS" attitude reeks of extreme stupidity, I don't know how deluded you have to be to think these things aren't equally worthless and get all worked up about them receiving equal treatment.

 

 

I think it's because video games and e-sports are so new compared to sports. Most of the general public have zero idea about video games or e-sports.. so it's not stupidity, just ignorance, and your current attitude does not help in convincing them that these things are worthwhile. Just my two cents.



#56 Romy

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:03 PM

Correct, everything is equally worthless and feverishly judging things based on your personal preference acting like it's a fact is silly n_n

Then your argument (as well as everyone else's) is irrelevant.

 

That's the problem with taking that stance. Literally nothing matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

What exactly is it you're debating then? lol



#57 DonValentino

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:16 PM

Ouch, DonWhatever. I'm sorry that Valentino has one too many letters for you to type out. Let me applaud you on your outstanding ability to copy and paste from wikipedia. Maybe next time you'd like to try and define it in your own words. "Something is said to have intrinsic value if it is good ``in and of itself,'' i.e., not merely as a means for acquiring something else. Happiness might be an example of an intrinsic value, because being happy is good just because it's good to be happy, not because being happy leads to anything else." So for example, art could be said to have intrinsic value because art is something we do in life, for no specific reason, we just do it because it's there to be done. Do you ever sing in the shower, or just dance around the house? We do these things, not to entertain others, or make money, but because we naturally crave these things. Sometimes I will write just to write, because writing has intrinsic value to me.

#58 seraph

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:44 PM

No problem.

 

 

I think it's because video games and e-sports are so new compared to sports. Most of the general public have zero idea about video games or e-sports.. so it's not stupidity, just ignorance, and your current attitude does not help in convincing them that these things are worthwhile. Just my two cents.

 

Ignorance is worse than stupidity imo. In a world where all human knowledge is a few clicks away there's really no excuse for it. My intention isn't really to convince them as I don't really gain anything from it, I'm mostly just expressing my annoyance.

 

Then your argument (as well as everyone else's) is irrelevant.

 

That's the problem with taking that stance. Literally nothing matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

What exactly is it you're debating then? lol

 

Yes, everything is irrelevant and nothing matters, if you're a nihilist that is (and I am). I don't see it as a problem, it's just how things are. That doesn't mean I'm not free to amuse myself with meaningless debates, if anything it means I'm even more free to do that or whatever else I feel like doing. I already stated what I was debating, there is no intrinsic value in anything therefore claiming something has 'unfathomably more value' is incorrect.

 

Ouch, DonWhatever. I'm sorry that Valentino has one too many letters for you to type out. Let me applaud you on your outstanding ability to copy and paste from wikipedia. Maybe next time you'd like to try and define it in your own words. "Something is said to have intrinsic value if it is good ``in and of itself,'' i.e., not merely as a means for acquiring something else. Happiness might be an example of an intrinsic value, because being happy is good just because it's good to be happy, not because being happy leads to anything else." So for example, art could be said to have intrinsic value because art is something we do in life, for no specific reason, we just do it because it's there to be done. Do you ever sing in the shower, or just dance around the house? We do these things, not to entertain others, or make money, but because we naturally crave these things. Sometimes I will write just to write, because writing has intrinsic value to me.

 

Sorry, I'm lazy. I don't see how me wasting time typing it out changes anything. Personally I wouldn't say happiness has intrinsic value (why is it good? what is good? objectively it's just a chemical reaction with fleeting effects) but from a utilitarian/hedonistic view point it does. I don't think humans craving things necessarily gives them value but going by your argument video games have the same amount of value because people naturally crave to play them. But anyway the reason I don't think that works is the "value to me" part. It can't be intrinsic if it relies on something else existing. For example I like to eat chocolate just to eat chocolate because it pleases me. Therefore chocolate has value to me but if I didn't exist this value would also cease to exist as it isn't intrinsic, chocolate doesn't possess it in and of itself. Something would basically have to have value in a vacuum for it to be intrinsic.


Edited by seraph, 02 October 2014 - 02:46 PM.


#59 Romy

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:49 PM

Yes, everything is irrelevant and nothing matters, if you're a nihilist that is (and I am). I don't see it as a problem, it's just how things are. That doesn't mean I'm not free to amuse myself with meaningless debates, if anything it means I'm even more free to do that or whatever else I feel like doing. I already stated what I was debating, there is no intrinsic value in anything therefore claiming something has 'unfathomably more value' is incorrect.

 

Then isn't debating against you kinda pointless? If you view everything as valueless, isn't arguing whether something has value kind of a moot point?

 

It's like arguing whether God exists with a Christian. They (by definition) believe there is.



#60 seraph

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:57 PM

Then isn't debating against you kinda pointless? If you view everything as valueless, isn't arguing whether something has value kind of a moot point?

 

It's like arguing whether God exists with a Christian. They (by definition) believe there is.

Just as pointless as everything else in the world.  :D  It's not like one can only debate over whether or not something has value though. Also I disagree with that example, unlike a Christian I don't believe anything. Every opinion I have is a product of rational arguments and logic. If you can prove me wrong by using these tools I will be happy to accept it and enjoy the process - isn't that what debate is supposed to be about anyway?



#61 Romy

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:23 PM

Just as pointless as everything else in the world.  :D  It's not like one can only debate over whether or not something has value though. Also I disagree with that example, unlike a Christian I don't believe anything. Every opinion I have is a product of rational arguments and logic. If you can prove me wrong by using these tools I will be happy to accept it and enjoy the process - isn't that what debate is supposed to be about anyway?

 

You can't disagree.

 

I w as just stating that believe everything is valueless is a KEY characteristic of nihilism. You cannot be a nihilist if you believe that something has value.

(In the same way that believe God exists is a key characteristic of being a christian. You cannot be a christian if you don't believe in god.)

 

Proving something has value to a nihilist is impossible. lmao



#62 seraph

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:39 PM

You can't disagree.

 

I w as just stating that believe everything is valueless is a KEY characteristic of nihilism. You cannot be a nihilist if you believe that something has value.

(In the same way that believe God exists is a key characteristic of being a christian. You cannot be a christian if you don't believe in god.)

 

Proving something has value to a nihilist is impossible. lmao

 

Well, it's mostly an existential thing for me, objects can still have subjective value but in the end it's all contrived. I don't think it's impossible because it's usually not something these people hold dearly like religion, it's not an irrational belief but rather a logical conclusion. In fact most nihilists I've found routinely try to find ways to prove themselves wrong, because they find the conclusion they've come to depressing, but fail to do so. Perhaps it's just impossible, with the current state of human knowledge anyway




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