47 replies to this topic

[Dazz]

Don't commit crimes, don't get tested on. Simples.

 

What about people who are incorrectly prisoned? There was a story about one guy who was finally freed from jail after spending 25 years in there for a murder he didn't commit, i know it's rare but it happens. Would suck to be imprisoned for something you didn't do, and then be tested on to add insult to injury.

[Magical]

Don't commit crimes, don't get tested on. Simples.

 

The Guide to Life!

[Waser Lave]

What about people who are incorrectly prisoned? There was a story about one guy who was finally freed from jail after spending 25 years in there for a murder he didn't commit, i know it's rare but it happens. Would suck to be imprisoned for something you didn't do, and then be tested on to add insult to injury.

 

Don't get incorrectly imprisoned then...

[Kaddict]

Ok, how can you be more of an animal lover than a people lover? And there are too many variables and unknowns that you can't do human treatment before animals. You cant factor in enough things.

[Tetiel]

For the folks saying there's ways around it, I'm sorry, but as it sits right now, there's not. What you guys aren't getting is that research done on animals for human gain is not JUST drug research. Much of the research is actually genetic testing and manipulation. This is one of the reasons we use mice and rats for the research. They are exceedingly prolific and grow to adult stage quickly. Therefore, it is much easier to breed certain genetic traits into them.

I'll use a study I read recently as an example. They took male rats bred to have different levels of oxytocin receptors. The rats with more oxytocin tended to have higher levels of paternal behaviors whereas the rats without the high levels of oxytocin refrained from social behavior. You CANNOT breed humans like that. It takes too long and it's severely unethical. Is it unethical to do this to rats and mice? Ehhhhh maybe kinda sorta, but it's needed to understand things which are not easily measured such as the effects of neurotransmitters on psychology.

We need studies such as that to give us clues on where to look for cures for certain deficiencies. Because of studies such as the one referred to above, some scientists have started to look at a lack of receptivity to oxytocin as a cause for some Autism Spectrum Disorders. It also explains a link to using drugs like pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) and having autistic children because the sudden influx of oxytocin may cause oxytocin resistance and change the epigenetics of the child. 

This is important and as it sits, we don't have any other way to do it. So I'm sorry. I love animals. I work with them every day I go to work. I clean their cages. I care for them when they are ill. But I have no qualms about using them for research when it potentially saves human lives or dramatically increases the quality of life.

I also have no qualms about using them to research make up. Because I would much rather something which would cause cancer after 10 years of use be found out on an animal such as a rat which presents cancer much more quickly due to their metabolism than on a human. By 10 years that product would probably already be on those shelves and then congratulations, you now have a cancer epidemic.

[Dazz]

This is important and as it sits, we don't have any other way to do it. So I'm sorry. I love animals. I work with them every day I go to work. I clean their cages. I care for them when they are ill. But I have no qualms about using them for research when it potentially saves human lives or dramatically increases the quality of life.

 

This ^^. I know the army used to shoot/wound pigs to train their medics to treat combat wounds, as harsh as people may see this it was the best way to train the medics to save human lives actually out on the frontlines. Now they have simulators for this, but animals are still used to test chemical weapons and such which as much as i would love that they use taliban instead, it's still the best way to test the effects of chemical weapons without actually using humans imo.

[Kaddict]

Totally agree with two posts above me. Because essentially, if we don't use lab animals, we are going to stop progressing, or turn in to nazi scientists. Thinking about research done during the holocaust versus animal cruelty...it is an obvious decision. Which should lead to our next question, was the holocaust real? Just kidding.

Also, that is an interesting finding regarding the oxytocin in mice. What is especially interesting is that some studies have shown increased serum oxytocin levels with sexual stimulation (especially self stimulation). So, after masturbation, time to go play with the kids?

[Bone]

I'm assuming Waser's suggestion to test on the incarcerated wasn't intended to be taken seriously, but it still disturbs me that three people repped it. 

[Romy]

We should just test on 4chaners.

[Turnip]

We should just test on 4chaners.

 

Heyyy, not all of us are horrible and go on /b/.... ;_;

[Magical]

Ok, how can you be more of an animal lover than a people lover? And there are too many variables and unknowns that you can't do human treatment before animals. You cant factor in enough things.

 

I guess in my situation ignorance is bliss! (One time this cliche actually works! o.O)

[Cass]

A lot of things were invented through human testing during WWII in the concentration camps, it worked great. I'm not vouching to round up some jews again but I think it'd be a great idea if prisoners locked up for life (for whichever crime; if you're locked up for life it's probably severe enough) were used for testing. 

 

Until that day arrives, I agree with Sweeney; it's a necessary evil to use animals.

(Okay before people are going to blow up about my post, it's obviously intended to read it with a grain of salt)

[Kau]

A lot of things were invented through human testing during WWII in the concentration camps, it worked great. I'm not vouching to round up some jews again but I think it'd be a great idea if prisoners locked up for life (for whichever crime; if you're locked up for life it's probably severe enough) were used for testing. 

 

Until that day arrives, I agree with Sweeney; it's a necessary evil to use animals.

 

This. I'm planning to go into vet science and love animals, however for necessary things such as vaccinations etc., that animal testing is a vital thing. (I know that I'd never want to go through testing as a human). 

I don't have much to add as everything has pretty much been said, but, it should be used with consideration.

[evoheyax]

We have to test new drugs some how before we stuff it into to humans, so yes, we need it. But it should be done in a way that minimizes suffering to the animals.

[ssssssssss]

I think we can test products without testing in animals... they can do this in prisioners in death row

[Sweeney]

I think we can test products without testing in animals... they can do this in prisioners in death row

No.

[talbs]

I think we can test products without testing in animals... they can do this in prisioners in death row

 

I wouldn't be opposed to that. At least give them an opportunity to contribute to society.

[Eagles]

Definitely allow the testing to be done on death row inmates. If you don't think that is morally correct, then that sucks for you. Because I would certainly allow them to potentially make a contribution to society than just pay for them to live in a jail for their whole lives

[Sweeney]

Definitely allow the testing to be done on death row inmates. If you don't think that is morally correct, then that sucks for you. Because I would certainly allow them to potentially make a contribution to society than just pay for them to live in a jail for their whole lives

Death row inmates are not suitable test subjects for early trials.

[Eagles]

I guess that is possible... But you know, that's part of the fault on our legal system. I am considering more sane testing. Not pumping something totally unknown into an inmate and seeing how they react. But rather things that are assumed to be safe after extensive research. 

[Eagles]

I don't really think they have any rights anymore. They have a debt to pay back to society.

[Nymh]

I don't really think they have any rights anymore. They have a debt to pay back to society.

 

You think they lose their basic human rights by being on death row?

[jinq]

I don't really think they have any rights anymore. They have a debt to pay back to society.

Says the biology major ...

 

Anyways, yes to animal testing until we are sure it's safe to test on volunteers.