37 replies to this topic

[redlion]

Any other Texans see some crazy shit out on the highways and in the cities? Oh my gato, it's like the mexican-american war! People are yelling out remember the alamo and shit. (okay not really).

Thoughts on the issue you guys?

For those not in the know, read about our Governor and some context for the greater issue.

Edit: Lest I be taken the wrong way, it isn't actually a war or anything. It's a bunch of Central Americans (many children) who are crossing the border illegally because they've heard that when (not if) they are caught, they'll be put on a bus to big cities where they can fade into the system.

[Fikri]

what a stark contrast with the border with canada. malaysia is having the same problem too with people from poorer asian countries travel long distances to reach here. this year we were dropped into tier 3 in the annual human trafficking report released by the US - the same rung as some war-torn countries lol. the more adventurous ones will go to australia but they already stop accepting all immigrants via "stop the boats" policy.

 

why are there are so many children tho? i'm quite symphathetic with the immigrants but i'm sure by accepting them all it will deprive US resources. tough situation.

[NapisaurusRex]

why are there are so many children tho? i'm quite symphathetic with the immigrants but i'm sure by accepting them all it will deprive US resources. tough situation.

Their parents believe the children will be granted citizenship and have better lives. There's also been suspicion that some of the children are orphans of drug 'lords' and want to either continue the legacy or find haven here. 

[talbs]

The kids are getting shipped all over the place. They and/or their relatives know the US is lax on immigration, especially regarding children, so why not come on over and live the American Dream. Homeland security normally issues them an immigration hearing date after they are rounded up but the immigration courts are backlogged with hundreds of thousands of cases so the ones who aren't being held in detention facilities don't even get a date for sevaral months if not years. By the time their date rolls around, they fail to appear because they are already blending in with the rest of society and there's no incentive to show up anyway if it is just going to lead to deportation. There are even buses of them arriving in big cities in my home state (North Carolina) thousands of miles from the border, but people around here love to employ cheap labor, albeit often illegal.

 

Edited by talbs, 22 July 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[luvsmyncis]

I don't even know what to think. Imagine sending your child away, out into the unknown, because the unknown is better than what you got. 

 

The only solution I can think of is to send North American children into those Central American countries to even things out.

[NapisaurusRex]

I don't even know what to think. Imagine sending your child away, out into the unknown, because the unknown is better than what you got. 

 

The only solution I can think of is to send North American children into those Central American countries to even things out.

ooooorrrrrr take the kids and ship out some prisoners. Free up some space. Save some money.

[talbs]

ooooorrrrrr take the kids and ship out some prisoners. Free up some space. Save some money.

 

I can get behind that idea. For every child we bring in, a criminal is deported to a country of our choosing.

[NapisaurusRex]

I can get behind that idea. For every child we bring in, a criminal is deported to a country of our choosing.

That's not logical. It'd be to the country of the child's origin.

[KaibaSama]

Honestly, I agree with deporting them/ actually enforcing the border: You're breaking US law. Breaking a law should be punished.
Why do you get to break US law, and then later on just start demanding stuff? I feel bad for those who went the legal route and had to do a lot of work to get their green cards. What would happen to me if I tried illegally crossing into Mexico to live there? I doubt they'd be as welcoming as the US is sometimes.
The US right now has enough problems to deal with (economy, unemployment, healthcare, budget, debt, upcomming congressional elections, over crowded jails, ect.....). In my opinion, the US isn't really in too good of a position to be dealing with these people right now (in terms of what we'd have to do if we actually let them come in).

[NapisaurusRex]

Here's some info about the costs, children, and deportation options.

[talbs]

That's not logical. It'd be to the country of the child's origin.

 

True but neither is accepting illegals into our country and providing them with shelter, healthcare, education, etc. while the deficit approaches $18,000,000,000,000.

[luvsmyncis]

If we start executing them and throwing their bodies into the Gulf of Mexico, maybe they'll take their chances in their home countries that are plagued with drugs and violence.

 

True but neither is accepting illegals into our country and providing them with shelter, healthcare, education, etc. while the deficit approaches $18,000,000,000,000.

 

They are refugees.

[talbs]

They are refugees.

 

Fingers crossed more illegals don't discover this loophole.

Edited by talbs, 23 July 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[luvsmyncis]

I sort of wish the Natives had thought to build a wall when the Puritans started showing up on their shores.

[NapisaurusRex]

I sort of wish the Natives had thought to build a wall when the Puritans started showing up on their shores.

Isn't that what Plymouth Rock was supposed to be?

[Waser Lave]

Clearly need to break out the old smallpox blankets again...

[NapisaurusRex]

Clearly need to break out the old smallpox blankets again...

Funny you mention that...

[luvsmyncis]

Clearly need to break out the old smallpox blankets again...

 

Hmmmm... I WAS going to send some crocheted blankets and hats to the shelter and processing center, but they're only taking monetary donations. This is probably exactly why.

[Waser Lave]

Hmmmm... I WAS going to send some crocheted blankets and hats to the shelter and processing center, but they're only taking monetary donations. This is probably exactly why.

 

I imagine smallpox riddled dollars are probably just as effective tbh.

[redlion]

Honestly, I agree with deporting them/ actually enforcing the border: You're breaking US law. Breaking a law should be punished.

Yes, but.
 

Why do you get to break US law, and then later on just start demanding stuff?

People do this all the time. Like asking to speak to a lawyer.

Human rights are supposed to be universal, as embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If these people are refugees, which they are, we're obliged to follow the conventions and treat them decently. They don't get citizenship necessarily, but I think the humane thing to do would be to give them resident worker visas or something.

[Waser Lave]

If these people are refugees, which they are

 

How do we know they're refugees? Mexico isn't thaaaat bad.

[redlion]

How do we know they're refugees? Mexico isn't thaaaat bad.

They're not coming from Mexico. At least, the majority aren't. They travel through Mexico, sure, but most originate in Honduras, Guatemala, etc. Central American countries.

Edit: From the US State Department's travel advisory:

The Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens that the level of crime and violence in Honduras remains critically high. This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning dated December 24, 2013, and includes additional information on crime and security in Honduras, as well as updated contact information.

Tens of thousands of U.S. citizens visit Honduras each year for study, tourism, business, and volunteer work without incident. However, crime and violence are serious problems throughout the country, and the Government of Honduras lacks the resources to address these issues. Since 2010, Honduras has had the highest murder rate in the world. The Honduran Ministry of Security recorded a homicide rate of 75.6 per 100,000 people in 2013, while the National Violence Observatory, an academic research institution based out of Honduras’ National Public University, reports that the 2013 murder rate was 79 murders per 100,000 people.

[talbs]

How do we know they're refugees? Mexico isn't thaaaat bad.

 

Right. They are refugees dependent upon who you ask it seems. If the consensus is as long as you're a refugee, you're welcome to relocate, then suddenly there are no more immigrants, just refugees.

Edited by talbs, 23 July 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Waser Lave]

They're not coming from Mexico. At least, the majority aren't. They travel through Mexico, sure, but most originate in Honduras, Guatemala, etc. Central American countries.

 

So why can't they stop in Mexico then? If they're genuine refugees fleeing serious danger or persecution then Mexico should have been acceptable to them without them having to travel hundreds of miles further than necessary. We're in the same position in Europe, a lot of migrants travel through several European countries before reaching the French coast and attempting to come over to the UK despite any other European country being perfectly acceptable alternative.

[NapisaurusRex]

So why can't they stop in Mexico then? If they're genuine refugees fleeing serious danger or persecution then Mexico should have been acceptable to them without them having to travel hundreds of miles further than necessary. We're in the same position in Europe, a lot of migrants travel through several European countries before reaching the French coast and attempting to come over to the UK despite any other European country being perfectly acceptable alternative.

If given the choice between the US and Mexico, I'd choose the US.

 

There's still serious danger/persecution in Mexico that we don't have here yet.