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Disgusting pigs

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#26 DonValentino

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:40 AM

Reasons their actions were justified:

#1: Man (appearing unstable) is advancing towards them with no intention to stop with a DEADLY WEAPON

#2: Given the incidents that have been occurring recently with law enforcement, and the fact that Ferguson is only 20 minutes away from St. Louis, they had good reason to be fearful. This man could have wanted retribution against police for what he might have thought were hate crimes, wanting to punish these cops or cause them harm.

 

If you were in their shoes, given recent events, and a man was coming at you with a knife, I think you would act in self defense as well. It's not an easy situation to be in, and they made the call they thought best to protect themselves and others. Also, I think taser/pepper spray is used more in situations where the assailant is unarmed, but dangerous. This man was armed, and was dealt with accordingly. Not to say that this isn't very sad, and I wish things like this wouldn't happen, but I think this is one of those times where you cannot blame the police.



#27 talbs

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:12 AM

I just question whether shooting him to death was the only or best option available to the officers. I'm not presuming to know anywhere close to enough information about the situation, law enforcement protocol, options to officers, etc to have an answer, but I think in any situation where is anyone is shot down for being a "threat" it's prudent to review what happened, both within the law enforcement system and publically. No, I don't expect cops to be infallible, but that doesn't absolve them of culpability for their actions.

 

I can agree with you there for sure. The amount of times they pulled the trigger may have been excessive, but maybe he would have died anyway. It's definitely impossible to say how anyone here on these forums would have reacted. I don't think either of those cops went to work that morning thinking they would kill someone, but it worked out that way. I think the Michael Brown case has far more likelihood of an officer being held accountable than this one however. 


If you were in their shoes, given recent events, and a man was coming at you with a knife, I think you would act in self defense as well. It's not an easy situation to be in, and they made the call they thought best to protect themselves and others. Also, I think taser/pepper spray is used more in situations where the assailant is unarmed, but dangerous. This man was armed, and was dealt with accordingly. Not to say that this isn't very sad, and I wish things like this wouldn't happen, but I think this is one of those times where you cannot blame the police.

 

This is how I feel as well. I am not a cop so I don't have any taser, batons, etc. for a second line of defense. I do however carry a legal concealed firearm just about everywhere I go. Tonight if I am out to dinner with my girlfriend and a man with a knife approaches me, it's going to be the last attempted robbery he ever commits. 


Edited by talbs, 22 August 2014 - 10:12 AM.


#28 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:24 AM

This is how I feel as well. I am not a cop so I don't have any taser, batons, etc. for a second line of defense. I do however carry a legal concealed firearm just about everywhere I go. Tonight if I am out to dinner with my girlfriend and a man with a knife approaches me, it's going to be the last attempted robbery he ever commits.

You don't have to be a cop to have a backup taser. Go buy one on Amazon.

#29 talbs

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:38 AM

You don't have to be a cop to have a backup taser. Go buy one on Amazon.

 

I don't need one because I carry a firearm. I am just saying that because people want to chastise the police for not using a secondary weapon to neutralize the threat but I feel that if you or I were approached on the street in the same manner and elected to shoot, no one would say "Why didn't they use a taser" because we likely wouldn't have had one to rely on anyway.


Edited by talbs, 22 August 2014 - 10:39 AM.


#30 luvsmyncis

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

Sucks to be a cop. When they do something wrong, it's a pretty big fuckin' deal. When they do what they thought was best, but a lot of people think it was wrong, it's a pretty big fuckin' deal. When they do what's best and everything goes right, no one even gives a shit.

If you're American, I suggest you buy a long range taser and try it out on someone a few times.


Wait, what will happen? I don't want to kill someone, I just want to cause them a decent amount of physical pain.

#31 Frizzle

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:18 AM

That's generally what happens with a taser. As soon as you pull your finger off the trigger, all pain stops immediately.

#32 redlion

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:24 AM

How can you form an opinion on the matter if by your own admission, you don't know all the available information?

That's a dishonest riposte.

What that statement equates to, is that unless you're a police officer, it's impossible to form an educated opinion on the matter. How could anyone ever say anything about a job they don't personally do, according to your standards of forming an opinion?

I don't need ALL the facts to look at that video and see that suicide by police isn't the same as mentally unstable. That guy is clearly not in his right mind. If the cops had approached with a bit more caution, and perhaps stood in the vicinity for more than fifteen seconds before discharging their firearms, they could have come to the same conclusion that the cameraman did - "he crazy!"

#33 Frizzle

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:33 AM

It's the same reason I don't comment on how surgeons, scientists, CEOs, managers and sports players do their jobs. All the information you need to know (within reason) is readily available at your local police department or on the internet.

If you can't be bothered to actually research the topic at hand then you're ignorant of the matter and your opinion is nullified by that fact. Doesn't mean to say you can't have opinion, but it's just white noise.

"The guy is clearly not in his right mind". What does that mean? Does that mean he's mentally unstable? How do you know he didn't want to die by cop seeing as he kept repeating "shoot me"?

You suggest taking a little more time, maybe tried to have reason with him, before shooting? This is why you're not a cop. Because your decision making skills lack judgement and you, as well as your partner, would be dead.

I suggest you watch the video on this site

http://www.ijreview....e-wont-believe/

It demonstrates perfectly the kind of incidents have to deal with and how a split second decision can result in life or death.

It all shows you not make judgements from your nice comfy armchair. You have no academic, personal or professional experience in these situations so your opinion is not valid.

#34 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

I don't need one because I carry a firearm. I am just saying that because people want to chastise the police for not using a secondary weapon to neutralize the threat but I feel that if you or I were approached on the street in the same manner and elected to shoot, no one would say "Why didn't they use a taser" because we likely wouldn't have had one to rely on anyway.

Yeah, I misunderstood. Sorry!

#35 Emily

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:02 PM

What if the man had stabbed them? What would the topic of conversation be then? Probably about why they didn't use their own weapons to protect themselves. Cops are human and it's normal for a human being to react to something that puts their own survival in danger. 



#36 Romy

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

I don't need ALL the facts to look at that video and see that suicide by police isn't the same as mentally unstable. That guy is clearly not in his right mind. If the cops had approached with a bit more caution, and perhaps stood in the vicinity for more than fifteen seconds before discharging their firearms, they could have come to the same conclusion that the cameraman did - "he crazy!"

Just bear in mind that within 8-9 feet, a knife is just as deadly as a gun.

If someone lunges and you miss your shot, it's too late to get them in your sights and fire again.



#37 Kaddict

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:08 PM

Just bear in mind that within 8-9 feet, a knife is just as deadly as a gun.

If someone lunges and you miss your shot, it's too late to get them in your sights and fire again.

Absolutely. And using a taser for someone who is armed, dangerous, and clearly has no regard for his life is a terrible idea for many reasons. First, tasers miss and/or don't work fairly frequently. If you miss you 1 shot, thats it, game over. Kid with the knife takes your life. Even if it works, with adrenaline, many people can still function while being tased. Also, they had their guns out, they couldn't reach for the taser in time. And you can't shoot him in the leg. First of all, he was charging. Aiming for a moving, thin leg, is tough, especially when half of your brain is focusing on dodging a weapon yourself. 

 

I don't need ALL the facts to look at that video and see that suicide by police isn't the same as mentally unstable. That guy is clearly not in his right mind. If the cops had approached with a bit more caution, and perhaps stood in the vicinity for more than fifteen seconds before discharging their firearms, they could have come to the same conclusion that the cameraman did - "he crazy!"

Crazy or sane doesn't matter when a man is coming at you with a knife. And how should they have handled it? A man commits a crime. They walk up to him, hand him a note saying what he did was bad, and he should turn himself in? But maybe you are right. I am sure in that situation they should have called a psychotherapist and found out that he  is stuck in the oral phase, and we could have read freud together and all been safe and happy.

 

 

Why is this even an issue? Crazy man tries to kill cop. Cop does his job and eliminates threat in the only possible way.  



#38 luvsmyncis

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

Why is this even an issue? 

 

They shot at him like 10 times at close range, cuffed him as he was dying/dead, and it was caught on video. 



#39 Frizzle

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:57 AM

As opposed to what? Give him a foot rub whilst he stabs them to death?



#40 Kaddict

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:57 AM

They shot at him like 10 times at close range, cuffed him as he was dying/dead, and it was caught on video. 

I think I heard 6 gun shots, how many of those hit, and how many of those did anything to stop his approach is probably why 6ish were needed. Even a shot to the heart wont stop someone who has little regard for his life immediately (it will stop really, really quickly, but his forward momentum at least is still a problem). Cuffing him, if he was dead, that was dumb. But if he was alive, (I'm not talking about barely alive) then they still had to neutralize the threat. I think it is ridiculous of us to say "these cops put their life on the line, but they should make it even more dangerous for them." Will you be happy if the cops die 50% of the time? If that is the case, we are going to have to triple what we are currently paying police officers.



#41 luvsmyncis

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

There were more than 6 shots fired. 

 

As opposed to what? Give him a foot rub whilst he stabs them to death?

 

A foot rub sounds pretty good, honestly.

 

I don't claim to know much about guns or police work, but it seems odd, to the ignorant spectator, for an officer of the law to continue shooting after the perpetrator is on the ground, having already been shot 4 or 5 times. 

 

This is probably what some people have issues with. 



#42 Kaddict

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:18 AM

No what is weird to me? How calm those people were after that guy was shot and killed. Like, what? If the same dude would have been filming a magic show, he wouldve been screaming bloody murder. 



#43 Frizzle

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:51 AM

Did you watch the video? They shot a volley of shots in seconds. You can't take a risk that one or two shots hit and put the suspect down. You shoot until the suspect is down and/or the threat is extinguished.

#44 luvsmyncis

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:02 PM

Of course I watched it. I'm morbid.



#45 Mishelle

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:21 PM

No what is weird to me? How calm those people were after that guy was shot and killed. Like, what? If the same dude would have been filming a magic show, he wouldve been screaming bloody murder. 

 

You truly are tasteless. 



#46 Kaddict

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:22 PM

Did you watch the video? They shot a volley of shots in seconds. You can't take a risk that one or two shots hit and put the suspect down. You shoot until the suspect is down and/or the threat is extinguished.

This is what I am saying. You can't shoot once, and check if he is advancing. You have to shoot until he is down. And ya, he probably wouldve gone down with 3-4, but maybe not. Can't take that chance. It was all within probably 2 seconds.



#47 Bone

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

No what is weird to me? How calm those people were after that guy was shot and killed. Like, what? If the same dude would have been filming a magic show, he wouldve been screaming bloody murder. 

 

This is not the time or place for an unfunny, racist joke.



#48 Kaddict

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

This is not the time or place for an unfunny, racist joke.

When is? But seriously, this vine gets me every time.

 

Then why is it ok to generalize all cops as disgusting pigs? The one cop saying "I kill everyone, I don't discriminate" could be called a pig, but not all of them.



#49 Mishelle

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:34 PM

Yes let's deflect your racism by changing the topic to #notallpolice I'm interested in seeing how this goes.



#50 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

Then why is it ok to generalize all cops as disgusting pigs? The one cop saying "I kill everyone, I don't discriminate" could be called a pig, but not all of them.

Are you comparing race to an occupation?



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