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Minimum Wage? Raise it or nah?


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#1 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:23 AM

What do all of you think? My personal opinion is to not raise the minimum wage. Companies could not afford to hire as many workers as they currently do if the minimum wage went up, leading to higher unemployment. People earning minimum wage are above the poverty line, so it could be worse. If we raise the minimum wage and it causes the loss of even a million jobs, guess who will be there to support them. The government. I shouldn't even say government because who will be paying for their safety net programs? Us. So why would it make sense to raise the minimum wage? Wouldn't it just cause more issues? And will the slight increase really make all the difference in that person's life, at the cost of destroying another persons? There is so much to talk about on this topic and am curious to debate with others. I dont know if this topic has been posted about yet but... if it is then my apologies. 

 

 

Ah, i see this topic has been posted. But it has been 7 years since a post on that thread. I am sure the majority of the users here are different, so feel free to put your input in. 


Edited by Neopetsaddict123, 17 September 2014 - 10:24 AM.


#2 talbs

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:30 AM

Absolutely not. I feel like anyone who pickets and protests wanting an increase in minimum wage has little to no idea how the economy works. It would just further devalue our currency. The cost of all the other commodities would rise, people would lose their jobs to compensate for the increased wages of others, etc. Once you raise the minimum wage, everyone else will need to be adequately compensated across the board. The solution isn't to give people more money for doing a job that anyone can do, it's to encourage them to better themselves and develop a skill set that may eventually lead to a job that provides more money, and hopefully a better quality of life.

 

I am speaking more towards the fast food workers that like to strike demanding $15 per hour, not particularly increasing the minimum wage by .10 or .25 or whatever anyone else would like to propose. With that said, I am not exactly a proponent of ANY minimum wage increase.


Edited by talbs, 17 September 2014 - 10:35 AM.


#3 Bone

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:47 AM


Absolutely not. I feel like anyone who pickets and protests wanting an increase in minimum wage has little to no idea how the economy works. It would just further devalue the currency. The cost of all the other commodities would rise, people would lose their jobs to compensate for the increased wages of others, etc. 

 

Uninformed feelings have no place in this section. ;) Requiring private employers to pay their employees a higher minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or put more currency into the system. Instead, it would bolster the economy by increasing private spending and reducing income inequality. In the end, there would be more being spent in the private sector by minimum wage earners, and lessened need for government welfare for those who work.

 


The solution isn't to give people more money for doing a job that anyone can do, it's to encourage them to better themselves and develop a skill set that may eventually lead to a job that provides more money, and hopefully a better quality of life.

 

For the foreseeable future, there will always be a need for jobs "that anyone can do." Why should people who choose that path (or have to take it for whatever life circumstance) be paid literally unlivable wages?

 

Anyways, increases in productivity (and inflation) have far outpaced increases in minimum wage. Even a $15 minimum wage wouldn't be equivalent to minimum wage in the 60s, taking into account productivity increases:

 

fig3_scenarios.jpg

 

I am speaking more towards the fast food workers that like to strike demanding $15 per hour, not particularly increasing the minimum wage by .10 or .25 or whatever anyone else would like to propose. With that said, I am not exactly a proponent of ANY minimum wage increase.

 

What?



#4 Waser Lave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:55 AM

All it would take is to redistribute some of the wealth from the very richest and minimum wage increases to a living wage standard would be perfectly affordable.

 

Uninformed feelings have no place in this section. ;) Requiring private employers to pay their employees a higher minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or put more currency into the system. Instead, it would bolster the economy by increasing private spending and reducing income inequality. In the end, there would be more being spent in the private sector by minimum wage earners, and lessened need for government welfare for those who work.

 

Indeed, the lower paid spend a far greater proportion of their earnings than the wealthy do so most of any increase is going to go straight back into the wider economy.



#5 Rocket

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:56 AM

Steal from the Rich and give to the Poor!



#6 talbs

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:27 AM

Uninformed feelings have no place in this section. ;) Requiring private employers to pay their employees a higher minimum wage doesn't cause inflation or put more currency into the system. Instead, it would bolster the economy by increasing private spending and reducing income inequality. In the end, there would be more being spent in the private sector by minimum wage earners, and lessened need for government welfare for those who work.

 

 

For the foreseeable future, there will always be a need for jobs "that anyone can do." Why should people who choose that path (or have to take it for whatever life circumstance) be paid literally unlivable wages?

 

Not going to address all of that at the moment because I only have a brief break in the afternoon. First off, my opinions or feelings as you call them have a place wherever I wish to publish them, so get over it. And the second point about there always being a need for those jobs is exactly why raising the pay isn't the answer. If their job doesn't pay enough, quit and get a better one. There will always be someone who can fill the void. With unemployment as high as it is, cheap labor is a dime a dozen.

 

Another question for the OP, are you questioning whether or not there should be an increase in the federal minimum wage, or just an increase in our own respective states/localities?

 

I'll add more later. Feel free to attack the OP in the meantime as it appears his "uninformed feelings" also differ from yours.


Edited by talbs, 17 September 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#7 Elindoril

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

Not going to address all of that at the moment because I only have a brief break in the afternoon. First off, my opinions or feelings as you call them have a place wherever I wish to publish them, so get over it..


Welcome to the debate section. Posts facts, not opinions.

#8 Jess

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:34 AM

People earning minimum wage are above the poverty line, so it could be worse.

I can't think of a single person who makes minimum wage and is also above the poverty line. (It might be because of my area though, I live in a pretty poor region.)

Here is the poverty level chart and, if I mathed right, minimum wage would bring in 15,288 a year, assuming the worker got 40 hours all 52 weeks of the year. So for a single, childless person, it's possible to do it, I guess.



#9 talbs

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:37 AM

I'm confused as to why his chart makes his a fact and mine is an opinion. It's a political issue. Have either of you ever heard of the free market, or is familiarity with such limited to non Commies/Liberals?


An increase in the federal minimum wage would reduce the incentive for low-wage workers to get an education and move up to a higher-paying job. The lower the minimum wage, the more eager a minimum wage worker would be to enroll in a community college course at night, improve his or her skills, and apply for a higher-paying job. Making the entry-level jobs higher paying increases the risk that workers will get stuck in them for longer instead of moving on to something more rewarding.

 

If two free people (boss/employee) want to enter into a voluntary, consensual agreement that doesn't infringe on anyone else’s rights, why should the government stop them? If someone wants to work for $5 an hour, and someone wants to hire that person for that much with no one forcing either one of them into the agreement, by what authority does government step in and stop them?

 

The costs of living vary from state to state and city to city. If the point of raising the minimum wage is to provide a “living wage,” why should the minimum wage in areas such as Billings, Montana and Laramie, Wyoming be the same as areas such as Manhattan, New York or San Francisco, California?



 


Edited by talbs, 17 September 2014 - 11:41 AM.


#10 Waser Lave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:43 AM

If two free people (boss/employee) want to enter into a voluntary, consensual agreement that doesn't infringe on anyone else’s rights, why should the government stop them? If someone wants to work for $5 an hour, and someone wants to hire that person for that much with no one forcing either one of them into the agreement, by what authority does government step in and stop them?

 

Nobody in any developed country wants to work for $5 an hour. ;)



#11 talbs

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:46 AM

Nobody in any developed country wants to work for $5 an hour. ;)

 

I agree wholeheartedly. However when providing for your family, I assume it's more about needs and less about wants.


Edited by talbs, 17 September 2014 - 11:46 AM.


#12 Waser Lave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:47 AM

I agree wholeheartedly. However when providing for your family, I assume it's more about needs and less about wants.

 

So if somebody needs to work for $5 an hour and someone else wants to hire that person for that much then the first person is effectively forced to agree to that contract. :p



#13 Mizk

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:22 PM

As someone who seems doomed to forever work for minimum wage or near minimum wage (for 6 ****ing years), I believe it should be raised, but I'm of course biased. My personal belief is that "minimum wage" and "living wage" should be synonymous instead of the grossly different numbers that they currently are. I can't understand why the 2 are even different things. If 7.25/hr is indeed above the poverty line, it is only because the poverty line is created around 7.25/hr being minimum wage; it would be because you started with 7.25/hr and then worked your way towards finding the poverty line, rather than working backwards starting at a predetermined poverty line. I can't support this with facts, and there may not be any to support it, but that is how I feel

 

To the people claiming that "hurr durr people don't know how economy works" -- there is no evidence to support the claim that raising the minimum wage would have a negative impact on the economy. In fact, economists widely agree that raising the minimum wage would have little to no effect on job growth, unemplyment, or inflation, while simultaneously decreasing poverty. I don't believe this takes into account raising minimum wage to = living wage, but any little bit would help when it has no effect on anything.

Spoiler


I also don't think that "the 1%" should get tax breaks just because they have more money and that it would fix some money problems if they paid the same % that everyone else pays, but that's not the topic of discussion.


Edited by Mizk, 17 September 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#14 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:49 PM

 

 

All it would take is to redistribute some of the wealth from the very richest and minimum wage increases to a living wage standard would be perfectly affordable.

How would you plan on redistributing the wealth? Taxing the rich? All that would do would take away the incentive for people to advance and further their careers. Why work harder when I'm just going to get a larger portion of my money taken away from me?



#15 talbs

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:53 PM

How would you plan on redistributing the wealth? Taxing the rich? All that would do would take away the incentive for people to advance and further their careers. Why work harder when I'm just going to get a larger portion of my money taken away from me?

 

Socialism 101. 



#16 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:56 PM

Kinda off topic: Why do americans measure they salary in hours/years instead of 1 month?



#17 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:02 PM

 

 

Why do americans measure they salary in hours/years instead of 1 month?

How do you measure salary?



#18 Frizzle

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:09 PM

Yearly

#19 Waser Lave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:09 PM

How would you plan on redistributing the wealth? Taxing the rich? All that would do would take away the incentive for people to advance and further their careers. Why work harder when I'm just going to get a larger portion of my money taken away from me?

 

I was actually talking about the super rich (those worth billions and those earning tens of millions per year). It's pretty disingenuous to suggest that somebody is going to want to work less hard just because they'd be earning say $50 million instead of $55 million. :p There are also more targeted mechanisms like property taxes above certain thresholds etc which can help to redistribute wealth without being focused on wages.

 

It's a pretty ridiculous situation where the richest country in the world has a minimum wage lower than the likes of the UK, France and Belgium (amongst others) while also not having anything resembling a national healthcare system etc. Just shows how poorly distributed the wealth actually is.



#20 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:30 PM

I certainly do think that a person has less incentive to work harder if their pay will be reduced from 55 to 50 million. Just because they are rich does not mean that 5 million dollars is not important. 



#21 Waser Lave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:39 PM

I certainly do think that a person has less incentive to work harder if their pay will be reduced from 55 to 50 million. Just because they are rich does not mean that 5 million dollars is not important. 

 

It's less important to them than say $5 an hour to the lower paid though given that the lower paid spend a greater proportion of their earnings just to live whereas once you're earning millions the vast majority of that is disposable income.



#22 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:17 PM

So then it is unacceptable to be rich unless youre going to donate to the poor? The rich should feel obligated to give to the poor just because theyre working hard? Not to say that everyone earning minimum wage doesn't work hard, but many do not



#23 jinq

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:18 PM

Tax the rich more and crack down more on wealthy tax evaders (including corporations) is more effective than raising the minimum wage.



#24 Eagles

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:33 PM

Why do you feel the rich should have their money taken away? because they earned it and others were not as successful?



#25 jinq

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:49 PM

You know why the US is in such a big deficit? Cuz idiots like Reagan and Bush increased military spending and decreased taxes for the rich.


Edited by jinq, 17 September 2014 - 02:49 PM.



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