202 replies to this topic

[Sweeney]

Why do you feel the rich should have their money taken away? because they earned it and others were not as successful?

Why do you feel that poor people should be paid literally not enough money to survive? Because they're stupid and they deserve it?

[Eagles]

Yeah... Obama increased the national debt the most by far for any president. He has raised the deficit more in one term than Bush did in both his terms....

 

 

Why do you feel that poor people should be paid literally not enough money to survive? Because they're stupid and they deserve it?

I don't know about you, but even the people who get paid minimum wage can survive. People with out jobs can survive thanks to our government... which is an entirely different discussion. So theyre not so poor that they cannot survive

[Sweeney]

I don't know about you, but even the people who get paid minimum wage can survive. People with out jobs can survive thanks to our government... which is an entirely different discussion. So theyre not so poor that they cannot survive

Have you ever been poor?

[Mishelle]

Yes we should raise the minimum wage and it should be raised on a regular basis to keep up with inflation. The rich don't get rich in a vacuum they need people to staff their businesses and there's no reason anyone should be working 40 hours a week and still unable to afford basic needs while the company's CEO gets a $5 million bonus every year.

[Eagles]

I cannot say that i have ever been poor. But I do question if the lifestyle is so bad to be working a minimum wage job, what is preventing people from getting a better education, or attending free seminars, or other various programs? This might be somewhat irrelevant, but i had a summer job doing landscaping for $15 an hour. Some of my friends had jobs at McDonalds working for minimum wage. There were job opening in the landscaping business.. but they did not want to take them due to "too much work". Don't you think to some extent that poor people sometimes just do not want to work harder to get somewhere in life?

Is it the cost of education that is preventing these minimum wage workers from getting an education? I'm just a college student sitting here trying to understand. Don't get me wrong i am passionate in my views but I am more than open to hear the other side and perhaps change my opinion. I just need compelling evidence as to why the poor cannot do ANYTHING to better themselves and instead must rely on the government to force businesses to pay them more

[Eagles]

i took many online classes when i was in high school to get credit for college courses. the majority of the students in those classes were single mothers working multiple jobs, or people just out of high school that did not come from very affluent families. I talked with one girl and she was getting her associates in 3 years (a little long) while she balanced two jobs with a child. It doesn't sound easy, but if she can do it, why can't the rest?

[NapisaurusRex]

I cannot say that i have ever been poor. But I do question if the lifestyle is so bad to be working a minimum wage job, what is preventing people from getting a better education, or attending free seminars, or other various programs? This might be somewhat irrelevant, but i had a summer job doing landscaping for $15 an hour. Some of my friends had jobs at McDonalds working for minimum wage. There were job opening in the landscaping business.. but they did not want to take them due to "too much work". Don't you think to some extent that poor people sometimes just do not want to work harder to get somewhere in life?

Is it the cost of education that is preventing these minimum wage workers from getting an education? I'm just a college student sitting here trying to understand. Don't get me wrong i am passionate in my views but I am more than open to hear the other side and perhaps change my opinion. I just need compelling evidence as to why the poor cannot do ANYTHING to better themselves and instead must rely on the government to force businesses to pay them more

It's highly dependent on the person. I got out of a minimum wage job by being in the right place at the right time. I never would've went back to school without someone telling me that I could do it. I didn't think that I was good enough or smart enough for college until my boss asked me why I never went back, then told me I was perfectly capable of it. How many landscaping jobs are open paying $15 an hour year round though? Would a mother of 3 kids take the chance of quitting her job for a high paying summer job, then having to find a new one in the winter? Many places look at that as being flighty and irresponsible. Sure, there's plenty of people, poor and rich, who are lazy and don't want to work harder, but not all poor people don't just want to not work harder. 

So, instead of 'poor people' (I'd really rather just call them people) relying on the government to raise minimum wage, you'd rather them rely on the government for things like food, shelter, insurance, and childcare instead of being able to pay for them themselves?

[talbs]

Have you ever been poor?

 

I've been poor, which is why I have made changes in my life to ensure that I don't find myself in dire straights again. I could get fired tomorrow, as could any of us here that have a job, but I'd survive. It may be tough, but no one ever said life was easy.

[Mizk]

So then it is unacceptable to be rich unless youre going to donate to the poor? The rich should feel obligated to give to the poor just because theyre working hard? 

I don't believe that's what anyone is saying. They just shouldn't get the benefit of paying a smaller % tax than people who make less.

As an example with arbitrary numbers, let's say poor people pay 30% of their wage as taxes. This is a huge hit to them, because they are in the demographic that actually "requires" that extra 30% in order to live, and their food choices or living conditions *must* suffer because they're not allowed to keep that 30%.

A rich person pays only 10% of their wage as taxes, because their 10% is much much muuuuch higher than several people's 30%. However, if they paid the 30% that everyone else does instead of 10%, they would suffer no visible penalty, because they are well out of the demographic that "needs" that extra money. If they incurred the extra 20% penalty that applies to everyone else, how would it affect them? Maybe they wouldn't be able to go on their 3rd or 4th vacation that year, or maybe they wouldn't be able to keep paying for their summer home that they use only 1 week of the year.

Do you see the difference? I know I'm not who you replied to, but I'm not saying that rich people should have to give their money away, I'm just saying that they shouldn't be allowed to pay a smaller % just because their actual number is larger, because it barely affects them at that point anyway.

 

Not to say that everyone earning minimum wage doesn't work hard, but many do not

I used to work with a guy who worked 2 minimum wage jobs every single day for 8 hours each (16 total), just so he could support his family.

He worked 16 hours per day, even working on weekends, and he made *less* than someone who makes $15/hr doing one job.

I have nothing more to add to that, I just wanted to show you the ridiculous situations that occur due to the minimum wage being far below the living wage

Edited by Mizk, 17 September 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[Ali]

There's actually a big push in the UK at the moment for big companies to pay the accepted living wage as opposed to the statutory minimum wage because it's so well recognised that living on minimum wage is absolutely dire and leaves so little scope for progression.

I've never been poor and it's unlikely I ever will be. London is an expensive city to live in and I honestly don't know how people live here on minimum wage. Pretty bloody miserably I expect.

[Frizzle]

So then it is unacceptable to be rich unless youre going to donate to the poor? The rich should feel obligated to give to the poor just because theyre working hard? Not to say that everyone earning minimum wage doesn't work hard, but many do not

It's not really giving to the poor in the sense of a donation, more like paying them their worth since millionaires only get rich through the masses.

[Mishelle]

i took many online classes when i was in high school to get credit for college courses. the majority of the students in those classes were single mothers working multiple jobs, or people just out of high school that did not come from very affluent families. I talked with one girl and she was getting her associates in 3 years (a little long) while she balanced two jobs with a child. It doesn't sound easy, but if she can do it, why can't the rest?

Because people are different and have different circumstances. Some people have things going on in their lives that we might not even know. I work a minimum wage job and I go to college full time and it works for me because I have the privilege of having family members who can afford to help me with my bills and subsidize my living situation but not everyone has that. Some people only have themselves to rely on and possibly even a couple kids to feed as well. I have a woman I work with and she's in her late 40s and she was already struggling by herself while she was renting a room in someone elses house. Then her sons father (who his primary caregiver) decided to commit suicide and now she has to support herself and her son on a minimum wage job. She's been there for 9 years and barely makes over $10 an hour. It's not just raising the minimum wage but the fact that workers wages remain stagnant while CEOs and higher ups on the administrative end get guaranteed salary increases, productivity bonuses, christmas bonuses, paid sick leave, vacation days and stock options.


Credit: Dorsey Shaw; Source: Emmanuel Saez, UC Berkeley

I think that addressing our income inequality is very important because many economists have stated that the last time the income gap was this wide was before The Great Depression. Continuing on this trend of shrinking our middle class is going to devastate our already shitty economy.

http://www.pewresear...est-since-1928/
 

Today, unionization and collective bargaining levels are at historic lows not seen since before 1928 (Freeman 1997). The federal minimum wage purchases fewer goods and services than it did in 1968 (Cooper 2013). And executives in companies from Hostess (Castellano 2012) to American International Group (AIG) think nothing of demanding bonuses after bankrupting their companies and receiving multibillion-dollar taxpayer bailouts (Andrews and Baker 2009).

Policy choices and cultural forces have combined to put downward pressure on the wages and incomes of most Americans even as their productivity has risen. CEOs and financial-sector executives at the commanding heights of the private economy have raked in a rising share of the nation’s expanding economic pie, setting new norms for top incomes often emulated today by college presidents (as well as college football and basketball coaches), surgeons, lawyers, entertainers, and professional athletes.

The yawning economic gaps in today’s “1 percent economy” have myriad economic and societal consequences. For example, growing inequality blocks living standards growth for the middle class. The Economic Policy Institute’s The State of Working America, 12th Edition found that between 1979 and 2007, had the income of the middle fifth of households grown at the same rate as overall average household income, it would have been $18,897 higher in 2007—27.0 percent higher than it actually was. In other words, rising inequality imposed a tax of 27.0 percent on middle-fifth household incomes over this period (Mishel et al. 2012). Thompson and Leight (2012) find that rising top 1 percent shares within individual states are associated with declines in earnings among middle-income families.

http://www.epi.org/p...unequal-states/

Edited by Mishelle, 17 September 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[NapisaurusRex]

i took many online classes when i was in high school to get credit for college courses. the majority of the students in those classes were single mothers working multiple jobs, or people just out of high school that did not come from very affluent families. I talked with one girl and she was getting her associates in 3 years (a little long) while she balanced two jobs with a child. It doesn't sound easy, but if she can do it, why can't the rest?

I also wanted to point out that part of that can be attributed to having internet in the home, something a lot of people in poverty don't have. It's almost impossible to take children to a public place to use internet so you can take a test or something online.

[Sweeney]

I've been poor, which is why I have made changes in my life to ensure that I don't find myself in dire straights again. I could get fired tomorrow, as could any of us here that have a job, but I'd survive. It may be tough, but no one ever said life was easy.

What changes?

It doesn't sound easy, but if she can do it, why can't the rest?

Because different people live in different circumstances. Surprise!
Do you know what it's like to go to work and effectively earn $1 an hour, because out of your actual $9.50 an hour, $8.50 goes on childcare?

[HiMyNameIsNick]

How do you measure salary?

 

 

Monthly, since we all get paid once a month.

[talbs]

What changes?

 

I didn't buy new clothes. I didn't have cable. I let bills become past due in order to keep food on the table and in the fridge. I kept my mouth shut and did my job, which I was thankful to have, just because it was the only source of income I had and knew I'd be up the creek without it. I knew that I would have to put my time in at the bottom like almost everyone else in order to get to where I one day wanted to be. I worked full time in college while my friends were out partying, going to nice places for spring break, etc. because I didn't have someone bankrolling my college experience.

Edited by talbs, 17 September 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Eagles]

But if they did raise minimum wage, don't you think many people would be out of work?

[Rocket]

But if they did raise minimum wage, don't you think many people would be out of work?

it's unlikely that a noticeable amount of people would be out of work.

[Eagles]

How do you suppose small businesses can afford to pay workers more? Surely they would be forced to close, or hire workers illegally

[Frizzle]

Small businesses (usually under 50 employees) receive many tax breaks and privileges that large corporations don't.

[Eagles]

They max receive tax breaks, but bottom line is that some of them just would not be able to afford to pay workers more. Many small businesses struggle as it is. Imagine if they were forced to pay workers more. What would facilitate the creation of small businesses? Without these small businesses, who takes over? Corporations and the government? 

[Eagles]

Would MORE people have more spending power, or would less people have MORE spending power in that situation?

[Eagles]

I mean its kind of a trade off. Sure it would be great for the people that would be positively affected by the raised minimum wage, but it is inevitable that some people would have to lose their jobs. And no doubt these people will run to the government and who will end up paying for them? I'll let you answer that. I also don't understand why more people don't get into a specific trade. My uncle owns a construction company and with a few weeks on the job i learned how to do nearly every aspect of flatwork concrete. Most places this is a decent paying job... around $15-25 depending on the size of the company. It might be more work.. but you need to do what you need to. Physically incapable people would be a whole different story. 

Edited by Neopetsaddict123, 17 September 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Sweeney]

I didn't buy new clothes. I didn't have cable. I let bills become past due in order to keep food on the table and in the fridge. I kept my mouth shut and did my job, which I was thankful to have, just because it was the only source of income I had and knew I'd be up the creek without it. I knew that I would have to put my time in at the bottom like almost everyone else in order to get to where I one day wanted to be. I worked full time in college while my friends were out partying, going to nice places for spring break, etc. because I didn't have someone bankrolling my college experience.

Aw, man. You had to give up luxuries.

You weren't poor.

[Eagles]

thats very true. connections are a big part of it. I guess sometimes you have to kiss some ass to get somewhere. For any person in any socioeconomic situation