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Potty-Mouthed Princess


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#51 Bone

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 11:58 AM

This video isn't about feminism. It's about selling t-shirts.

 

Agreed.


I meant the designation "feminist".

Jesus Christ, my english is awful and I can't express myself properly. Move on already. :(

 

Alright, although I'm still not sure what the difference you're referring to is.



#52 Swar

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:00 PM

No way?! Jerks.



#53 MozzarellaSticks

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:01 PM

This thread is just so bad in so many ways.



#54 shrouded

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:53 PM

Explain your situation here. You worked together? Before college? Your post implies that you are still in college since you are failing out... are you in grad school?

 

You can easily find out everything about me. Yes, we worked together in a research lab. If you're extremely interested in my research I can tell you all about it. I mean there isn't really anything to say. We study together and worked in the same lab approximately two years ago. I'm about to graduate in May. 



#55 MozzarellaSticks

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:57 PM

I have to ask, if the wage gap isn't a gender issue, why is there a wage gap for race and gender? I mean, this is something documented for decades you can't say it doesn't exist. It was even just up in Congress. The government has admitted the wage gap exists.


Edited by noxiousmermaid, 23 October 2014 - 12:57 PM.


#56 Frizzle

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 01:16 PM

The wage gaps between certain races is due to the low levels of education, lack of resources, discrimination and high crime rates. This could be seen as a state based institutionalised racism leading to a disadvantage for BME groups.

#57 MozzarellaSticks

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:01 PM

The wage gaps between certain races is due to the low levels of education, lack of resources, discrimination and high crime rates. This could be seen as a state based institutionalised racism leading to a disadvantage for BME groups.

I don't see how you can find racial wage gaps to be discrimination and not gender wage gaps to be discrimination?



#58 Frizzle

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:42 PM

I've never said anything to the contrary.

#59 ortin

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:48 PM

So you are telling me you both had the same college GPA? Same activities? Same prior work experiences? It's hard to say specifically what your employer looked into. If you can somehow justify that you're quite literally the same person, then i'll believe you. But you both certainly did not lead the same lives to get to where you're at... so you can't prove that you are making less simply because you're a girl

You know, this happens ALL THE TIME beyond anecdotal evidence, especially in the science field. In fact, women have to have twice the qualifications to receive the same grants compared to men.

Barriers in science[edit]

In 2006, the United States National Academy of Sciences found that women in science and engineering are hindered by bias and "outmoded institutional structures" in academia. The report Beyond Bias and Barriers says that extensive previous research showed a pattern of unconscious but pervasive bias, "arbitrary and subjective" evaluation processes and a work environment in which "anyone lacking the work and family support traditionally provided by a ‘wife’ is at a serious disadvantage."[74] Similarly, a 1999 report on faculty at MITfinds evidence of differential treatment of senior women and points out that it may encompass not simply differences in salary but also in space, awards, resources and responses to outside offers, "with women receiving less despite professional accomplishments equal to those of their male colleagues."[75]

Research finds that work by men is often subjectively seen as higher-quality than objectively equal or better work by women compared to how an actual scientific review panel measured scientific competence when deciding on research grants. The results showed that female scientists needed to be at least twice as accomplished as their male counterparts to receive equal credit[76] and that among grant applicants men have statistically significant greater odds of receiving grants than equally qualified women.[77]



#60 Hawk

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:33 PM

I was one rank above my partner, I was getting less money, I was working more than he was (and forget the 40hours/week talk, that is "load of bs"), and yet we had the same employer, the Government, who was supposed to be above all suspicious when it comes to gender equality.

 

And this happens everywhere. Why is my sister in law earning less than my brother when they both work in a insurance company, for the same boss, in the same field, in the same team, doing the exactly same work 65 hours a week? They both have the same qualification. The child she has is the same that he has. When the kid needs to go to the doctor, they both go. Where's the reasonable explanation for that?

Congrats on the anecdotal evidence.  Make the sample size a hell of a lot larger, call it a study, and get published.  Ask bosses the hard questions as well to try and gather their insight on the topic.  Bonus points if it is a woman as a boss with a woman subordinate that is being paid less than a male coworker performing the same duties.

 

Also, going to go out on a limb, and say that the two have a different set of qualifications, one brings more to the table than the other (Difference notable by a manager, does not show up on a resume), or one happens to have a better working relationship with their boss.

 

 

We're basically identical people. We've been in every course together and I definitely do worse in school. I'm nearly failing out at this point. 

I found that to be true as well.  People that did well as students were often the last ones to find full-time jobs and in some cases accepted lesser offers.  The kids that barely scraped by had a full time job lined up going into their senior year at a place with a reputation for paying out.



#61 Mishelle

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:50 PM

*
POPULAR POST!

"I've never seen it happen" = perfectly acceptable

"It happens to me" = unnacceptable and anecdotal

I literally can't even rn

#62 ortin

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:02 PM

@Hawk I find it weird that you first attack anecdotal evidence and declare it invalid, then turn around and use anecdotal evidence to back up another claim. 



#63 Mishelle

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:16 PM

We've gone over race and gender discrimination in my business management courses and I just want to let you guys know that women not negotiating isn't the issue. Stereotypes are the issue. In the work force being aggressive and Type A is a trait that men are praised for having and that women are penalized for having. If women are aggressive in negotiating for higher pay it is seen as unladylike. There's a lot of intentional and unintentional bias against women in the work force that has no factual basis. For example both men and women overwhelmingly prefer male managers over female managers, even though women tend to be better managers than men. Nitro has been posting facts all through this thread so I'm not gonna repeat them but some of you seem misguided on how deeply ingrained sexism and racism is within our work force.

#64 Dan

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:31 PM

Unfortunately this has devolved into another feminism thread.

 

What, exactly, is the topic up for debate here? This is the debate section, after all.



#65 Frizzle

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:36 PM

pay gap



#66 DonValentino

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:54 PM

I thought we were talking about how little girls shouldn't swear



#67 Kaddict

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 06:04 PM

Could you point me to where firefighters and other high-strength jobs come into the post you replied to? Because that's one hell of an assumption for the sake of making an argument.

She is in the military, on the front lines (I think she said that) which means tons of gear, gotta carry wounded people. It is similar to firefighters/police.

 

 

In this case, you'll just have to believe my word when I say I can drag a 250lb dude, despite my C cup breasts. And it's not easy for any one, woman or man, not only for gear we carry or the injuries we have take care.

And, I can't speak for other countries, but here anyone that wants to join any kind of "force" is obligated to hard physical/psychological tests, independently of their gender. Besides, I wouldn't be there if I hadn't pass it with success. That alone should be enough for qualify me and level me with my comrades and not the fact that I don't have a penis.

 

Wait... "For female firefighters and policewomen"? So men don't have to do it? Making a women take such tests and not make men doing it also it's discriminating too, no? O_o

 

I totally believe you. There are tons of women in the world way stronger than most men. But, that is the exception. And as far as strength tests go, men and women both have to pass the tests, it is just an easier requirement. ie a many would have to run a mile and carry a 200lb body for 500yds in 10 min whereas a women would run a mile and carry a 75lb body in 12 min. I made up that example, but it is pretty similar. Also, I think it differs precinct/district/state etc. But if you can do the same stuff the dudes do, and do the same stuff the dudes do, there really is no reason for a discrepancy (though, I don't know all the factors)



#68 ortin

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 06:21 PM

I thought we were talking about how little girls shouldn't swear

None of us really had an issue with the swearing though. 


Unfortunately this has devolved into another feminism thread.

Unfortunately? Everyone can speak for themselves, but I myself have learned a good deal of the facts that support feminism. These discussions are good.



#69 DonValentino

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 06:22 PM

@nitro

 

star-trek-joke-gif.gif



#70 Hawk

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 07:03 PM

@Hawk I find it weird that you first attack anecdotal evidence and declare it invalid, then turn around and use anecdotal evidence to back up another claim. 

One has been thoroughly researched, the other has not.

 

https://www.google.c...alary engineers



#71 Katya

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:52 AM

lol



#72 Mishelle

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 07:20 AM

Recently many companies have moved away from factoring GPA in employment. Google doesn't factor GPA at all in their hiring process.

Edited by Mishelle, 24 October 2014 - 07:21 AM.


#73 Eagles

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:45 AM

Recently many companies have moved away from factoring GPA in employment. Google doesn't factor GPA at all in their hiring process.

You certainly could find information that supports the idea that companies are moving away, but then again many companies still do use it. I would say that it still has an impact on the employment process.



#74 Mishelle

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:16 PM

You certainly could find information that supports the idea that companies are moving away, but then again many companies still do use it. I would say that it still has an impact on the employment process.


Which is dumb considering GPA is one of the most common things people lie about on their resumes.

#75 ortin

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 01:15 PM

One has been thoroughly researched, the other has not.

How is women being paid less despite qualification not "thoroughly researched"? There are hundreds if not thousands of studies and research that back my claim (and I have repeatedly posted such studies in this thread). This injustice is best exemplified in the science field, where the gender gap is most prevalent. Forget about equal pay for equal qualification, women need TWICE the qualification of men to get the same grant in the science world. 




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