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#76 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:39 AM

It's not our place to determine how much money others need or deserve. People like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc. worked for what they have, and to say they don't need it or they are already rich enough is just silly. This is America (where myself and Ms. Swift are at least) and what I've been told my whole life is that money makes the world go around, and I've been endlessly pursuing it since.

 

I don't care how much money you make or want to make. I just think it's stupid to whine about not making enough when you're a millionaire. 



#77 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:43 AM

Yes, but I doubt you're also currently a millionaire and you would probably need that money. I have sympathy for artists who are not well known and want to make money off of their music. I hardly have any sympathy for artists who are millionaires and whining because they don't make as much as they want to. 

 

 

But just because they are millionaire they have to release their work for free? I mean, how much does an album cost? 8 bucks? 10 bucks?



#78 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:43 AM

Then why come in to this topic? A topic about Swift charging money for her music. To debate about her quality of music?

 

I will never convince you that stealing the work of others is not an appropriate thing to do. You say that she is overcompensated and that gives you permission to steal from her. If I stole from you or your employer failed to properly compensate you then you would be crying foul right away.



#79 talbs

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:44 AM

I don't care how much money you make or want to make. I just think it's stupid to whine about not making enough when you're a millionaire. 

 

If you aren't earning what you're entitled to then the incentive to continue producing music is lost. I mean I agree it seems crazy to us as commoners for them to worry about compensation, but it's just a matter of perspective. 


Edited by talbs, 14 November 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#80 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:45 AM

I don't care how much money you make or want to make. I just think it's stupid to whine about not making enough when you're a millionaire. 

 

It was pushed by Borchetta. 



#81 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:46 AM

But just because they are millionaire they have to release their work for free? I mean, how much does an album cost? 8 bucks? 10 bucks?

 

They are still getting paid for it. They're just not getting as much as they want. 

 

 

If you aren't earning what you're entitled to then the incentive to continue producing music is lost. I mean I agree it seems crazy to us as commoners for them to worry about compensation, but it's just a matter of perspective. 

 

Since when did music become about the money? Wasn't there a time when people actually enjoyed making it and wanted to make people happy rather than suck up as much money as they could from it?  :rolleyes:



#82 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:49 AM

They are still getting paid for it. They're just not getting as much as they want. 

 

 

 

Since when did music become about the money? Wasn't there a time when people actually enjoyed making it and wanted to make people happy rather than suck up as much money as they could from it?  :rolleyes:

 

It has nothing to do with what they want, it's what they deserve.



#83 talbs

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:50 AM

They are still getting paid for it. They're just not getting as much as they want. 

 

 

 

Since when did music become about the money? Wasn't there a time when people actually enjoyed making it and wanted to make people happy rather than suck up as much money as they could from it?  :rolleyes:

 

I think the only ones making music "because they enjoy it" are the ones who aren't supporting a family from it.

 

I'm sure there are still rich ones who enjoy it, I mean, it has to beat having a regular 9-5. Hell, Taylor is probably one of them, but it's not like she or any other musician who has "made it" has ample time away from touring, recording, etc. to maintain a real job. 


Edited by talbs, 14 November 2014 - 09:51 AM.


#84 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:51 AM

I will never convince you that stealing the work of others is not an appropriate thing to do. You say that she is overcompensated and that gives you permission to steal from her. If I stole from you or your employer failed to properly compensate you then you would be crying foul right away.

 

What are you even saying? I specifically said this:

 

'If Spotify (or whatever else) is using her copyrighted music without permission or not paying her what she wants and continues to use it, then they are in the wrong.'

 

I have no idea what to even say to you. It's like arguing with an infant.



#85 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:52 AM

I think the only ones making music "because they enjoy it" are the ones who aren't supporting a family from it.

 

 

 

wut

So I'm not a musician just because I have to pay bills?



#86 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:54 AM

What are you even saying? I specifically said this:

 

'If Spotify (or whatever else) is using her copyrighted music without permission or not paying her what she wants and continues to use it, then they are in the wrong.'

 

I have no idea what to even say to you. It's like arguing with an infant.

 

You also said that musicians should have salary caps and that she shouldn't be capable of earning more than a specific amount. How very 1922-NEP of you to mandate earnings for everyone.



#87 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:02 AM

You also said that musicians should have salary caps and that she shouldn't be capable of earning more than a specific amount. How very 1922-NEP of you to mandate earnings for everyone.


Yes, well, the upper middle class white Taylor Swift fans may hate me and rampage on online forms but the people in poverty who would benefit from capping a millonaire's salary would like me. So I'd sleep well at night.

#88 talbs

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:05 AM

wut

So I'm not a musician just because I have to pay bills?

 

No. I didn't say that at all. It's just a common retort for struggling artists to say it's not about the money, but rather the enjoyment they get from making it.


Edited by talbs, 14 November 2014 - 10:06 AM.


#89 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:08 AM

Yes, well, the upper middle class white Taylor Swift fans may hate me and rampage on online forms but the people in poverty who would benefit from capping a millonaire's salary would like me. So I'd sleep well at night.

 

I'm far beyond upper middle class if it makes you feel better. If you'd like to learn more about why you're wrong and the reasons that system won't work feel free to open any text that starts in 1917 with the beginning of Lenin's reign until 1984 and the end of Yuri Andropov's reign. In particular I'd look at the impact of Lenin, Rykov, Molotov, and Stalin. 



#90 Eagles

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:49 AM

I didn't read any of this, but i saw that someone said something about capping a millionaires salary. Was that serious?



#91 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 10:57 AM

I'm far beyond upper middle class if it makes you feel better. If you'd like to learn more about why you're wrong and the reasons that system won't work feel free to open any text that starts in 1917 with the beginning of Lenin's reign until 1984 and the end of Yuri Andropov's reign. In particular I'd look at the impact of Lenin, Rykov, Molotov, and Stalin.


All right then, if capping the salary of someone who makes hundreds of millions of dollars is not realistic, then how about progressive taxes? As you make more money you go into a higher tax bracket. Those who are finegiving a bit more back do so, and those that aren't can make good salaries but opt to work less hours to avoid higher taxes.

#92 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:01 AM

All right then, if capping the salary of someone who makes hundreds of millions of dollars is not realistic, then how about progressive taxes? As you make more money you go into a higher tax bracket. Those who are finegiving a bit more back do so, and those that aren't can make good salaries but opt to work less hours to avoid higher taxes.

 

So the way the U.S. income tax is right now. There are brackets based on how much you earn. There will never be a system that encourages working less in order to pay a lower tax. You pay X% on the first X,XXX dollars, Y% on the next Y,YYY dollars, and so on. The max rate is 39.6% and based on your filing status starts between 228.000 USD and 401.000 USD.



#93 Frizzle

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:29 AM

If people wish to obsess over and defend corporate sell-out millionaires on the basis of the ' American Dream of chasing the proverbial dollar' that's fine.

This will obviously have a knock on affect which is America has 10s of millions in bankruptcy and debt living pay check to pay check. It's why the top wage earners pay as little as 39.6% on their top level income. Hell, even I pay more than that on the majority of my pay check.

You'll have to excuse whilst apparently singing a couple of cheesey love songs makes you in the top 1% of earners worldwide and people still want more? That's just greed. There's nothing wrong with making lots of money. Gates and Buffet are worldwide billionaires and still trying to pay a higher tax rate instead of moaning about free advertisement and "only" getting paid millions of dollars.

Swift is worth an amazing $64 million according to Forbes and yet she's still clinging to the greasy pole trying squeeze more money out of her fans. People deserve compensation for their work but people also deserve the right to discuss the bitter taste it leaves in their mouths.

But sure I'm sure the person who represents and advertises for coke (ie a company that refuses to pay full corporate tax, endorses slave labour through neo capitalists ideals, ignored the nazi eugenics policies to further funding in Germany and still sponsors anti-homosexual cultures with their sponsorship of the Winter Olympics).

I'll summarise my point, no tears for corporate sell outs or their brainwashed legions.

#94 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:32 AM

If you aren't earning what you're entitled to then the incentive to continue producing music is lost. 

 

Totally disagree, to a certain extent of course you want to be paid well, but if you are in music, or other forms of art for the money then you should leave and become an investment banker.

 

Also, as far as higher taxes go, I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, I think it's ridiculous that some people who make tons of money do everything they can to avoid paying as much as they can, finding every loophole in our tax laws. On the other hand, I have an uncle who has a salary at the highend of six figures, and he actually works extremely hard, at the office from about 5am to 7pm on average, sometimes working much longer, and he gets a lot taken out for taxes, and is a great guy. Great house, nice car, lives comfortably, but puts in the work. I think he works 10x harder than taylor swift, who complains about having her music downloaded for free but still sold a million+ albums or whatever it was?

 

My problem is with the "entitled" people, who think just because they have acquired this money, think now that they are on some sort of new level where regular people are below them. First world problems, if you will. If taylor swift suddenly stopped having an income, right now for the rest of her life, I'm quite positive she could live much more comfortably than 50% of the population; actually i just checked and her income last year was 55 million, so 90% of the population, probably more. Like, at this point, you should be happy people are listening to your music. STOP BEING SO FUCKING GREEDY it makes me sick. You're an artist, you're here to inspire people. That should be your goal. 



#95 Frizzle

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:40 AM

You're an artist, you're here to inspire people. That should be your goal.


You mean you're not inspired by lyrics like

“So go and tell your friends that I’m obsessive and crazy / That’s fine I’ll tell mine that you’re gay!"

Or

"All you are is mean / And a liar, and pathetic, and alone in life / And mean, and mean, and mean, and mean"

#96 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:51 AM

It has nothing to do with what they want, it's what they deserve.

 

Oh, that's rich considering most of the singers whining about what they "deserve" are millionaire pre-packaged pop singers who all sound the same. 



#97 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:06 PM

So the way the U.S. income tax is right now. There are brackets based on how much you earn. There will never be a system that encourages working less in order to pay a lower tax. You pay X% on the first X,XXX dollars, Y% on the next Y,YYY dollars, and so on. The max rate is 39.6% and based on your filing status starts between 228.000 USD and 401.000 USD.

 

Yes, and that max rate is less than other countries (Germany, Australia are the only ones I know off the top of my head). And I do believe that max rate is not high enough.



#98 Bone

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:20 PM

People like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc. worked for what they have

 

I have some tough news for you, bud...



#99 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:28 PM

I've always wondered what it was like when Canadians got upset with each other. Thank you @Padme and @cara for indulging me. I can't shake the feeling that a moose died today somewhere, but it was worth it.



#100 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:46 PM

If people wish to obsess over and defend corporate sell-out millionaires on the basis of the ' American Dream of chasing the proverbial dollar' that's fine.

This will obviously have a knock on affect which is America has 10s of millions in bankruptcy and debt living pay check to pay check. It's why the top wage earners pay as little as 39.6% on their top level income. Hell, even I pay more than that on the majority of my pay check.

You'll have to excuse whilst apparently singing a couple of cheesey love songs makes you in the top 1% of earners worldwide and people still want more? That's just greed. There's nothing wrong with making lots of money. Gates and Buffet are worldwide billionaires and still trying to pay a higher tax rate instead of moaning about free advertisement and "only" getting paid millions of dollars.

Swift is worth an amazing $64 million according to Forbes and yet she's still clinging to the greasy pole trying squeeze more money out of her fans. People deserve compensation for their work but people also deserve the right to discuss the bitter taste it leaves in their mouths.

But sure I'm sure the person who represents and advertises for coke (ie a company that refuses to pay full corporate tax, endorses slave labour through neo capitalists ideals, ignored the nazi eugenics policies to further funding in Germany and still sponsors anti-homosexual cultures with their sponsorship of the Winter Olympics).

I'll summarise my point, no tears for corporate sell outs or their brainwashed legions.

 

There are millions of Americans living in debt and bankruptcy as a result of living outside of their own means and continuing to inflate a real estate bubble.If you'd like more statistics on how Americans managed to fuck themselves into poverty by accepting loans with variable interest rates and monthly minimums you can view http://www.abiworld....ContentID=36294

that link and see the annual fillings for non-business bankruptcy fillings. You can see a very nice trend in the data around the years 2003-2006 and the subsequent years 2007-2013. 

 

The fact you do not appreciate the work Taylor Swift produces does decrease the value of her work. While you may not appreciate it, it is clear millions of people do. There are several alternative artists you can sample and support with your money and/or time spent listening to advertisements. 

 

tl;dr: I have no pity or tears for anyone that won't spend money on their own entertainment or use free services that involve advertisements. 

 

 

Totally disagree, to a certain extent of course you want to be paid well, but if you are in music, or other forms of art for the money then you should leave and become an investment banker.

 

Also, as far as higher taxes go, I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, I think it's ridiculous that some people who make tons of money do everything they can to avoid paying as much as they can, finding every loophole in our tax laws. On the other hand, I have an uncle who has a salary at the highend of six figures, and he actually works extremely hard, at the office from about 5am to 7pm on average, sometimes working much longer, and he gets a lot taken out for taxes, and is a great guy. Great house, nice car, lives comfortably, but puts in the work. I think he works 10x harder than taylor swift, who complains about having her music downloaded for free but still sold a million+ albums or whatever it was?

 

My problem is with the "entitled" people, who think just because they have acquired this money, think now that they are on some sort of new level where regular people are below them. First world problems, if you will. If taylor swift suddenly stopped having an income, right now for the rest of her life, I'm quite positive she could live much more comfortably than 50% of the population; actually i just checked and her income last year was 55 million, so 90% of the population, probably more. Like, at this point, you should be happy people are listening to your music. STOP BEING SO FUCKING GREEDY it makes me sick. You're an artist, you're here to inspire people. That should be your goal. 

 

I'm an engineer. Should be goal be to provide high quality airplanes, vehicles, and other products regardless of my products use/sales? If my intellectual property is stolen or infringed upon I should just accept it if I have above a certain threshold of income? 

 

Oh, that's rich considering most of the singers whining about what they "deserve" are millionaire pre-packaged pop singers who all sound the same. 

 

Strange because a large number of artists have removed their music from Spotify and aggressively pursue DMCA claims, including The Black Keys and Jason Aldean. 

 

Yes, and that max rate is less than other countries (Germany, Australia are the only ones I know off the top of my head). And I do believe that max rate is not high enough.

 

It's also a question of expenditures. It's easy to throw out countries that have a better system, but they also have 1/5th the GDP and far fewer than 300m residents. The U.S. is a incredibly diverse and massive. 


I have some tough news for you, bud...

 

He wrote aggressive contracts that positioned his OS as the default for every major computer manufacturer in existence. Strange... that seems to be a technique in use by the music industry. 




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