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Should listening to music be free?

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#101 Bone

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:20 PM

People like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc. worked for what they have

 

I have some tough news for you, bud...



#102 Jess

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:28 PM

I've always wondered what it was like when Canadians got upset with each other. Thank you @Padme and @cara for indulging me. I can't shake the feeling that a moose died today somewhere, but it was worth it.



#103 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:46 PM

If people wish to obsess over and defend corporate sell-out millionaires on the basis of the ' American Dream of chasing the proverbial dollar' that's fine.

This will obviously have a knock on affect which is America has 10s of millions in bankruptcy and debt living pay check to pay check. It's why the top wage earners pay as little as 39.6% on their top level income. Hell, even I pay more than that on the majority of my pay check.

You'll have to excuse whilst apparently singing a couple of cheesey love songs makes you in the top 1% of earners worldwide and people still want more? That's just greed. There's nothing wrong with making lots of money. Gates and Buffet are worldwide billionaires and still trying to pay a higher tax rate instead of moaning about free advertisement and "only" getting paid millions of dollars.

Swift is worth an amazing $64 million according to Forbes and yet she's still clinging to the greasy pole trying squeeze more money out of her fans. People deserve compensation for their work but people also deserve the right to discuss the bitter taste it leaves in their mouths.

But sure I'm sure the person who represents and advertises for coke (ie a company that refuses to pay full corporate tax, endorses slave labour through neo capitalists ideals, ignored the nazi eugenics policies to further funding in Germany and still sponsors anti-homosexual cultures with their sponsorship of the Winter Olympics).

I'll summarise my point, no tears for corporate sell outs or their brainwashed legions.

 

There are millions of Americans living in debt and bankruptcy as a result of living outside of their own means and continuing to inflate a real estate bubble.If you'd like more statistics on how Americans managed to fuck themselves into poverty by accepting loans with variable interest rates and monthly minimums you can view http://www.abiworld....ContentID=36294

that link and see the annual fillings for non-business bankruptcy fillings. You can see a very nice trend in the data around the years 2003-2006 and the subsequent years 2007-2013. 

 

The fact you do not appreciate the work Taylor Swift produces does decrease the value of her work. While you may not appreciate it, it is clear millions of people do. There are several alternative artists you can sample and support with your money and/or time spent listening to advertisements. 

 

tl;dr: I have no pity or tears for anyone that won't spend money on their own entertainment or use free services that involve advertisements. 

 

 

Totally disagree, to a certain extent of course you want to be paid well, but if you are in music, or other forms of art for the money then you should leave and become an investment banker.

 

Also, as far as higher taxes go, I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, I think it's ridiculous that some people who make tons of money do everything they can to avoid paying as much as they can, finding every loophole in our tax laws. On the other hand, I have an uncle who has a salary at the highend of six figures, and he actually works extremely hard, at the office from about 5am to 7pm on average, sometimes working much longer, and he gets a lot taken out for taxes, and is a great guy. Great house, nice car, lives comfortably, but puts in the work. I think he works 10x harder than taylor swift, who complains about having her music downloaded for free but still sold a million+ albums or whatever it was?

 

My problem is with the "entitled" people, who think just because they have acquired this money, think now that they are on some sort of new level where regular people are below them. First world problems, if you will. If taylor swift suddenly stopped having an income, right now for the rest of her life, I'm quite positive she could live much more comfortably than 50% of the population; actually i just checked and her income last year was 55 million, so 90% of the population, probably more. Like, at this point, you should be happy people are listening to your music. STOP BEING SO FUCKING GREEDY it makes me sick. You're an artist, you're here to inspire people. That should be your goal. 

 

I'm an engineer. Should be goal be to provide high quality airplanes, vehicles, and other products regardless of my products use/sales? If my intellectual property is stolen or infringed upon I should just accept it if I have above a certain threshold of income? 

 

Oh, that's rich considering most of the singers whining about what they "deserve" are millionaire pre-packaged pop singers who all sound the same. 

 

Strange because a large number of artists have removed their music from Spotify and aggressively pursue DMCA claims, including The Black Keys and Jason Aldean. 

 

Yes, and that max rate is less than other countries (Germany, Australia are the only ones I know off the top of my head). And I do believe that max rate is not high enough.

 

It's also a question of expenditures. It's easy to throw out countries that have a better system, but they also have 1/5th the GDP and far fewer than 300m residents. The U.S. is a incredibly diverse and massive. 


I have some tough news for you, bud...

 

He wrote aggressive contracts that positioned his OS as the default for every major computer manufacturer in existence. Strange... that seems to be a technique in use by the music industry. 



#104 Dazz

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:55 PM

To be fair tho "It fascinates me and infuriates me that people are more willing to sit in a coffee shop and spend £10 on 2 coffees, and talk about the weather to their friends. And that coffee will last 45 minutes. Yet they will get physically angry at you if you ask them to buy your music. People spend money on nonsence like shit apps, and spend £500 odd quid on games for consoles. D'you know how much music you could buy for £500 quid? I don't know my maths is shit but it's a lot of fuckin' music"

 

I agree with this to an extent, but i find a lot of albums are like 5 decent songs and the rest is shit. And i aint buying a whole album for 5 songs that i like. If an album is mostly good tunes tho i'll pay but its very rare.



#105 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:56 PM

To be fair tho "It fascinates me and infuriates me that people are more willing to sit in a coffee shop and spend £10 on 2 coffees, and talk about the weather to their friends. And that coffee will last 45 minutes. Yet they will get physically angry at you if you ask them to buy your music. People spend money on nonsence like shit apps, and spend £500 odd quid on games for consoles. D'you know how much music you could buy for £500 quid? I don't know my maths is shit but it's a lot of fuckin' music"

 

I agree with this to an extent, but i find a lot of albums are like 5 decent songs and the rest is shit. And i aint buying a whole album for 5 songs that i like. If an album is mostly good tunes tho i'll pay but its very rare.

 

Believe it or not the sell most by the song O_o



#106 Turnip

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:57 PM

Since when did music become about the money? Wasn't there a time when people actually enjoyed making it and wanted to make people happy rather than suck up as much money as they could from it?  :rolleyes:

 
If you put a lot of time, effort and love into something and want to sell it so then others can enjoy it then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to :0 I mean, people already do this with other forms of entertainment like art, movies, video games, novels, all that sorta stuff. You gotta pay for your bills and rent somehow. I don't get how people can manage to have a "regular" job on top of doing major music/art/etc projects since those things take up so much of your time and energy.
 
Like okay huge artists like Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj don't really have the same financial struggles as like indie artists, but no matter how much money they make the music they created is still theirs and where it goes is completely up to them. If they don't want it somewhere (no matter how stupid the reason is) then it shouldn't be there.



#107 Jess

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:04 PM

Have y'all seen David Grohl's take on this?

enhanced-14933-1415984505-11.jpg



#108 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:05 PM

 
If you put a lot of time, effort and love into something and want to sell it so then others can enjoy it then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to :0 I mean, people already do this with other forms of entertainment like art, movies, video games, novels, all that sorta stuff. You gotta pay for your bills and rent somehow. I don't get how people can manage to have a "regular" job on top of doing major music/art/etc projects since those things take up so much of your time and energy.
 
Like okay huge artists like Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj don't really have the same financial struggles as like indie artists, but no matter how much money they make the music they created is still theirs and where it goes is completely up to them. If they don't want it somewhere (no matter how stupid the reason is) then it shouldn't be there.

 

Like I said in a previous post, I can sympathize with lesser known artists. I don't sympathize with artists who are millionaires and get mad because they're not sucking every last cent from their music. Sorry, but that just seems greedy to me. I don't care if they make money or don't want their music to be on Spotify but don't whine when you're already making millions upon millions of dollars and you just want more. 

 

Dave Grohl about Spotify: 

 

"Me personally? I don't f**king care. That's just me, because I'm playing two nights at Wembley next summer," said Grohl.

 
"I want people to hear our music, I don't care if you pay $1 or f**king $20 for it, just listen to the f**king song. But I can understand how other people would object to that."

 

Awkward simultaneous post. 



#109 Jess

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:06 PM

Like I said in a previous post, I can sympathize with lesser known artists. I don't sympathize with artists who are millionaires and get mad because they're not sucking every last cent from their music. Sorry, but that just seems greedy to me. I don't care if they make money or don't want their music to be on Spotify but don't whine when you're already making millions upon millions of dollars and you just want more. 

 

Dave Grohl about Spotify: 


 

Awkward simultaneous post. 

I almost chose the picture with your quote, and went with the other one at the last second. Still relevant. Just go with it.



#110 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:12 PM

I'm an engineer. Should be goal be to provide high quality airplanes, vehicles, and other products regardless of my products use/sales? If my intellectual property is stolen or infringed upon I should just accept it if I have above a certain threshold of income? 

 

I mean, I hope your goal is to create and/or enhance existing technology to benefit the population. Your second sentence is not really applicable, and here's why: the intellectual property you come up with (formulas, designs, etc) can be stolen and used by others for profit. If someone infringes on your copyright you should definitely be upset and seek reparations. If I "steal" Taylor's song (and I don't see it that way) I'm not profiting off of it. It's for my own personal enjoyment. I can't re-release the song and pretend it's my own, like someone might be able to do with your work. Even if I did, I'd be caught and punished. 



#111 Turnip

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:17 PM

Like I said in a previous post, I can sympathize with lesser known artists. I don't sympathize with artists who are millionaires and get mad because they're not sucking every last cent from their music. Sorry, but that just seems greedy to me. I don't care if they make money or don't want their music to be on Spotify but don't whine when you're already making millions upon millions of dollars and you just want more. 

 

Sure but ehh.... All I'm saying is if you create something and you don't want it on a specific site/service and it gets put there, even if it's a stupid or greedy reason, whether you're a small or huge artist, you have every right to ask for it to be taken off. If I made an image and it got posted on some site which I didn't want it to be on, even if I got money per I dunno view or something, then I should be able to ask the person who posted it to take it down. You made it so you decide where it goes and where it doesn't.



#112 talbs

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:19 PM

I have some tough news for you, bud...

 

The tough news you've yet to furnish won't refute my claim. It doesn't have to be limited to those two. How about Howard Schultz, Mark Cuban, Oprah Winfrey, Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, etc.?

 

Edited by talbs, 14 November 2014 - 01:23 PM.


#113 Romy

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:39 PM

Oh, that's rich considering most of the singers whining about what they "deserve" are millionaire pre-packaged pop singers who all sound the same. 

Since when are they not allowed to do what they want with the fruits of their labor?

It's not like you wanna pay for their music or anything....



#114 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:40 PM

Since when are they not allowed to do what they want with the fruits of their labor?

It's not like you wanna pay for their music or anything....

 

Like I have said multiple times, I don't care what they do. I just don't want to hear millionaires whining about how they're not getting more money. 



#115 Romy

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:42 PM

If I "steal" Taylor's song (and I don't see it that way) I'm not profiting off of it. It's for my own personal enjoyment. 

If you walk into a store and take a candy bar without paying for it are you stealing?

 

Why should music be viewed any differently?


Like I have said multiple times, I don't care what they do. I just don't want to hear millionaires whining about how they're not getting more money. 

Does having money disqualify them from profiting from their own work?



#116 Emily

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:43 PM

If you walk into a store and take a candy bar without paying for it are you stealing?

 

Why should music be viewed any differently?


Does having money disqualify them from profiting from their own work?

 

Did I say that? Profit away. Stop whining when you make $1m instead of $2m. End of story. 



#117 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:54 PM

If you walk into a store and take a candy bar without paying for it are you stealing?

 

Why should music be viewed any differently?

 

Good point. But there's still a difference to me. Lets say I steal a Milky Way bar. Does me stealing this item hurt Mars (the company that makes it)? No, it's barely noticeable. But it does hurt the corner store on my block a little bit more, and that's why I wouldn't do it (often, anyway). If I torrent her new CD, the corner store on my block has turned into the record label/music industry, who I feel significantly less worse about hurting (in a barely noticeable way). 



#118 Frizzle

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:54 PM

If you walk into a store and take a candy bar without paying for it are you stealing?

Why should music be viewed any differently?

Does having money disqualify them from profiting from their own work?


Theft needs appropriation of property, since you're downloading of streaming something, no property is permanently deprived from the original owner.

#119 Jess

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 02:08 PM

If I torrent her new CD, the corner store on my block has turned into the record label/music industry, who I feel significantly less worse about hurting (in a barely noticeable way).

Why?

If you walk into a store and take a candy bar without paying for it are you stealing?
 
Why should music be viewed any differently?

Does having money disqualify them from profiting from their own work?

Sorry, but this is the only thing I can think of.
Spoiler


I don't download music or movies or anything illegally. (I do have an Amazon Prime account though, and use their perk of 'free' music frequently, and take advantage of Google Play store's free weekly albums.)

#120 Romy

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 02:40 PM

Did I say that? Profit away. Stop whining when you make $1m instead of $2m. End of story. 

So maximizing their potential profit from their hard work?

 

Good point. But there's still a difference to me. Lets say I steal a Milky Way bar. Does me stealing this item hurt Mars (the company that makes it)? No, it's barely noticeable. But it does hurt the corner store on my block a little bit more, and that's why I wouldn't do it (often, anyway). If I torrent her new CD, the corner store on my block has turned into the record label/music industry, who I feel significantly less worse about hurting (in a barely noticeable way). 

No. You're just stealing from the people who worked on the audio, album cover designers, vocal coaches etc...

 

Theft needs appropriation of property, since you're downloading of streaming something, no property is permanently deprived from the original owner.

So taking any digital good(game, CD, program) is not considered theft?



#121 Frizzle

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 02:49 PM

No.

#122 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 02:58 PM

No. You're just stealing from the people who worked on the audio, album cover designers, vocal coaches etc...

 

Nah I'm not, those people don't lose any money if a cd is stolen. They have their wages and those are set. 



#123 Dan

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:00 PM

ITT: People who don't create things arguing that people who do should give it away for free.



#124 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:05 PM

ITT: People who don't create things arguing that people who do should give it away for free.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that, but good effort. 



#125 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:09 PM

No.

 

Yes it is. 

 

http://en.wikipedia....ent_Act_of_1999

http://www.fbi.gov/a..._collar/ipr/ipr

http://www.legislati...k/ukpga/1968/60


Edited by rwmurrayVT, 14 November 2014 - 03:11 PM.



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