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Should listening to music be free?

cds albums whathaveyou spotify

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#126 DonValentino

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:58 PM

Honestly, if I'm stealing from a party that either A) won't notice, or B) isn't affected, then I don't think it's that bad, if I am not capable of paying for it/the benefits of me having it outweigh the negatives of them losing it. I've been out of work for 3 months now, and have barely spent any money on myself besides food and bills. If I went into macy's tomorrow and stole a pair of gloves that I would use all winter, I think that's something morally allowable. If I had enough money to buy all the music I wanted, or all the clothes I needed, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. People who spend their time creating things deserve to be compensated, I said that in an earlier post. But if I have more immediate needs, like food or rent, then I'm going to download that album for free. 



#127 Frizzle

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 04:30 PM

Yes it is.

http://en.wikipedia....ent_Act_of_1999
http://www.fbi.gov/a..._collar/ipr/ipr
http://www.legislati...k/ukpga/1968/60


Copyright theft isn't tangible theft which was my point.

#128 Bone

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 04:32 PM

 

The tough news you've yet to furnish won't refute my claim. It doesn't have to be limited to those two. How about Howard Schultz, Mark Cuban, Oprah Winfrey, Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, etc.?

 

 

 

The news is no matter how many wealthy celebrities you name, the vast majority of the super-rich have not contributed to society (or "worked hard") to an extent that is proportional to their wealth.



#129 Kaddict

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 05:14 PM

ea3230c5f3305a2f2e6838b488d48d12b351a526

 

Pretty much how I feel from pages 2-5 of this thread.



#130 savethekings

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 05:33 PM

has anyone other than taylor swift done the same thing?



#131 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 05:39 PM

Totally disagree, to a certain extent of course you want to be paid well, but if you are in music, or other forms of art for the money then you should leave and become an investment banker.

 

 

 

Woah, really?

So my family should eat my guitars? And pay bills with songs?



#132 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:27 PM

It's also a question of expenditures. It's easy to throw out countries that have a better system, but they also have 1/5th the GDP and far fewer than 300m residents. The U.S. is a incredibly diverse and massive. 

 

I have a strong feeling that you're just saying absolute gibberish at this point. How is raising taxes a question of expenditures? I understand the fact that the US is larger and it would be more difficult to implement something like that, but that's just a lazy excuse. Which is barely the case anyways, the current tax system is just the result of rich people and corporations lobbying at the expense of poor people who don't have the opportunity to reform the system because of the system's innate bias towards over-representing the wealthy.

 

Essentially there's nothing concrete behind what you're saying which is why you're bringing up random soviet politicians in (what is a very strange) attempt to sound informed .. 

 

 

I'm far beyond upper middle class if it makes you feel better.

 

Also I forgot to address the fact that the absolute douchiness of this post is mind blowing.



#133 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:38 PM

has anyone other than taylor swift done the same thing?

There's plenty of famous artists who refuse to have their stuff available on Spotify. Garth Brooks, Tool, Metallica (unsurprisingly), and I'm sure there's others I can't think of right now. Those three in particular stick out, because they aren't available on itunes either. AC/DC and Bob Seger are on itunes, but not on Spotify. (Also, I listen to a lot of rock and a smidge of country, I have no idea about other popular genres.)



#134 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:42 PM

Can't we all just be friends? :(

Y'all didn't take my suggestion of killing everyone very seriously the other day. If you had, we wouldn't be in this situation now.



#135 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:47 PM

So you're telling me, if I seriously considered killing everyone, people wouldn't be arguing over Spotify and Taylor Swift? Huh, that seems messed up.

Merica!



#136 Kaddict

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:59 PM

http://www.rollingst...g-care-20141114

Dave Grohl >>>>>> Taylor Swift

And hey, I have seen Dave Grohl live a few times. Guess he is right...



#137 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 07:02 PM

Can't we all just be friends? :(

 

I can be friends with you because I think you're a cutie.  ^_^



#138 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:01 PM

Also I forgot to address the fact that the absolute douchiness of this post is mind blowing.

 

And I find it ridiculous you felt it was necessary to mention having two jobs at age 17. Is it suppose to rally support around you for stealing? 



#139 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:11 PM

And I find it ridiculous you felt it was necessary to mention having two jobs at age 17. Is it suppose to rally support around you for stealing? 

 

So .. no response to the rest?

 

And I would rather share something out of a personal sentiment than out of douchiness. Really shows out of the two of us where we stand on the spectrum of being a douche.

 

Oh, and I'm sorry, can you please quote where I said I 'steal' music? Where I said I stream it, or don't pay for it?



#140 Kaddict

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:19 PM

 

Oh, and I'm sorry, can you please quote where I said I 'steal' music? Where I said I stream it, or don't pay for it?

 

To the people that say this is "stealing," how do you feel about those damn libraries? Stealing money from poor JK Rowling. No one is going to ever buy her books because you can read them for free in a quiet building that smells like mold and dust. Whoever the hell has a library card should be jailed. Like that bastard Matilda. What a scoundrel.



#141 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:21 PM

So .. no response to the rest?

 

And I would rather share something out of a personal sentiment than out of douchiness. Really shows out of the two of us where we stand on the spectrum of being a douche.

 

Oh, and I'm sorry, can you please quote where I said I 'steal' music? Where I said I stream it, or don't pay for it?

 

There's no reason to explain the rest. The U.S. is a massive country that is incredibly diverse. You will never get anyone to agree on what should and should not receive funding. You've got half the country brainwashed into believing the Republicans social agenda is correct. You've got other fractions believing everyone should run around with an assault rifle. A part of the country still believes trickle down economics is bound to work. 

 

You're suggesting salary caps and limits on income. Maybe you missed the portion of the failed soviet-era policies that mandated those same policies. 



#142 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:22 PM

To the people that say this is "stealing," how do you feel about those damn libraries? Stealing money from poor JK Rowling. No one is going to ever buy her books because you can read them for free in a quiet building that smells like mold and dust. Whoever the hell has a library card should be jailed. Like that bastard Matilda. What a scoundrel.

 

It's an outrage. Taylor should rally all her beyond upper middle class fans and burn them all down.



#143 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:23 PM

To the people that say this is "stealing," how do you feel about those damn libraries? Stealing money from poor JK Rowling. No one is going to ever buy her books because you can read them for free in a quiet building that smells like mold and dust. Whoever the hell has a library card should be jailed. Like that bastard Matilda. What a scoundrel.

 

I believe they operate under the "Right of First Sale" which includes specific language for lending copyrighted material. Copying it and lending it to multiple people violates the right of first sale. Also you aren't lending the music when you illegally download it. You're copying it and distributing it.



#144 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:28 PM

There's no reason to explain the rest. The U.S. is a massive country that is incredibly diverse. You will never get anyone to agree on what should and should not receive funding. You've got half the country brainwashed into believing the Republicans social agenda is correct. You've got other fractions believing everyone should run around with an assault rifle. A part of the country still believes trickle down economics is bound to work. 

 

You're suggesting salary caps and limits on income. Maybe you missed the portion of the failed soviet-era policies that mandated those same policies. 

 

The reality is, the rich don't want to help the poor. And it's sure as hell not the poor who calls the shots in the states. You can go on about whatever political parties or reasoning you feel makes you look like you know what you're talking about, but you're so all over the place I don't even know where your thought process comes from/if you even have one.

 

Yes, I am suggesting it. And you missed the 'portion' (not sure what portion is referring to) where it is literally successful in countries at this exact moment in time. Right now. Happening as we type. It is working, and working well. But not the US, right? It's too big and it loves it's beyond upper middle class too much, right?

 

Look I just .. don't even know how to debate with someone like you. You cry the same things over and over again and then bring up irrelevant points. How about we just call it a night champ. We're hella off topic.



#145 Kaddict

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:31 PM

The libraries buy the books though, so it's not stealing?

With torrenting, someone has purchased the music. Same with streaming sites.



#146 shrouded

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:35 PM

The reality is, the rich don't want to help the poor. And it's sure as hell not the poor who calls the shots in the states. You can go on about whatever political parties or reasoning you feel makes you look like you know what you're talking about, but you're so all over the place I don't even know where your thought process comes from/if you even have one.

 

Yes, I am suggesting it. And you missed the 'portion' (not sure what portion is referring to) where it is literally successful in countries at this exact moment in time. Right now. Happening as we type. It is working, and working well. But not the US, right? It's too big and it loves it's beyond upper middle class too much, right?

 

It's too big and divided. It's funny how you and frizzle both think you know exactly how to the US should accomplish something from your armchairs in a foreign nation. Below you can listen to an interesting All Things Considered that looks at the science behind successful community sizes. It specifically applies to business, but the same principle can be found everywhere.

 

http://www.npr.org/2...ave-150-friends


With torrenting, someone has purchased the music. Same with streaming sites.

Again copyright is called copy right because it gives you the "right" to make "copies". If you own the copyright you own the distribution of your work. Libraries purchase books and distribute their SINGLE copy based on the right of first use. With illegal music downloads you are "borrowing" a copy from someone who in effect has purchased 1 copy and distributed X+1 copies.



#147 NapisaurusRex

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:36 PM

With torrenting, someone has purchased the music. Same with streaming sites.

Don't streaming sites have ads to gather revenue though? And once you 'lend' someone a song, you don't get it back. Libraries get their books back, or charge fines for them. There aren't a lot of cases of people photocopying entire books by the millions that they get out of the library and passing them around to the rest of the world.



#148 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:42 PM

ITT: Poor Canadian woman who has never created anything of value in her life.

 

I created a very upset beyond upper middle class patriot.

 

 

Also I'm not 17 and poor anymore you silly little champ. But gold stars for you.  :lol2:



#149 Romy

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:46 PM

Honestly, if I'm stealing from a party that either A) won't notice, or B) isn't affected, then I don't think it's that bad, if I am not capable of paying for it/the benefits of me having it outweigh the negatives of them losing it. I've been out of work for 3 months now, and have barely spent any money on myself besides food and bills. If I went into macy's tomorrow and stole a pair of gloves that I would use all winter, I think that's something morally allowable. If I had enough money to buy all the music I wanted, or all the clothes I needed, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. People who spend their time creating things deserve to be compensated, I said that in an earlier post. But if I have more immediate needs, like food or rent, then I'm going to download that album for free. 

So long as you realize that you're stealing.


With torrenting, someone has purchased the music. Same with streaming sites.

You're downloading/watching an unauthorized copy. 

It doesn't matter if the person streaming bought it, they are making illegal copies.


Also I'm not 17 and poor anymore you silly little champ. But gold stars for you.  :lol2:

Don't attack a person's love life! (or lack thereof!)



#150 cara

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 08:47 PM

Don't attack a person's love life! (or lack thereof!)

 

LOL I changed it to champ like a second later, you're too fast for me! :p




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