51 replies to this topic

[Mokojiin]

That's a terrible idea.

[Mishelle]

http://www.boston.co...5RZK/story.html

Turns out the hearing on the ban was so loud and unruly that they had to shut it down. Doesn't sound like this is gonna end up happening if there's that much opposition.

[Emily]

http://www.boston.co...5RZK/story.html

Turns out the hearing on the ban was so loud and unruly that they had to shut it down. Doesn't sound like this is gonna end up happening if there's that much opposition.

 

Even if it does happen, it's not going to stop anyone from smoking. It will get make people more sneaky. I mean, look at the kids at my school. They're hiding under bridges like trolls just to get their fix

[Kaddict]

I think that is what the town is going for. They likely don't care that people smoke, they just dont want to have to walk through smoke. So if they are smoking behind dumpsters and in their cars, no bid deal. People that were trying to smoke secretly in the town would still be accomplishing the designs of the lawmakers.

[LostinSpace]

I think too many laws are created to try to restrict people's rights.  If you want to smoke, then smoke.  Just don't be in someone else's face about it.  If you don't want to smoke, then don't do it.  I just don't think laws restricting what a person can or cannot do is ever the answer.  The problem is that once a right is taken away, it is very difficult to get it back, even if circumstances change.    

[Kaddict]

I think too many laws are created to try to restrict people's rights.  If you want to smoke, then smoke.  Just don't be in someone else's face about it.  If you don't want to smoke, then don't do it.  I just don't think laws restricting what a person can or cannot do is ever the answer.  The problem is that once a right is taken away, it is very difficult to get it back, even if circumstances change.    

Just for argument's sake (Since this is debate section), should murder be legal? Or rape? Those laws "restrict" people from what they may want to do, to protect other's rights. With smoking, there are millions of papers showing the harm of 2nd hand smoke, and papers are even starting to rise showing 3rd hand smoke can be nearly as detrimental. Where do we draw the line between individual rights and rights of others/public at large?

[cara]

As a smoker, this would not stop me from smoking, it would just deeply inconvenience me. But I would say yes to it because they're on the right track with the idea. And I know that I wish I had never started, so if this prevents even a few people from starting .. then it's worth it.

 

ID, it would basically mean if you look young, and can't prove you were born before 2000, you'd be fined on the spot. 

 

LOL i look about 15 and I was born well before the year of 2000. As a smoker I have definitely forgotten my ID (which is my passport) at home many times while trying to buy cigarettes. And I should be fined .. because i LOOK young? I wasn't aware that the law requires me to look the legal age as opposed to being the legal age.

 

 

Just for argument's sake (Since this is debate section), should murder be legal? Or rape? Those laws "restrict" people from what they may want to do, to protect other's rights. With smoking, there are millions of papers showing the harm of 2nd hand smoke, and papers are even starting to rise showing 3rd hand smoke can be nearly as detrimental. Where do we draw the line between individual rights and rights of others/public at large?

 

What the hell is 3rd hand smoke?

 

Edit: oh, nevermind, i googled it. It's scary how much damage smoking does ..

[Kaddict]

 

What the hell is 3rd hand smoke?

 

Ha, sorry. I considered defining it. It is essentially residual smoke left on something. Like when you smoke for a while and come home and your clothes smell like smoke. Your clothes are giving off 3rd hand smoke. For a more full description: http://www.mayoclini...ke/faq-20057791

[cara]

Ha, sorry. I considered defining it. It is essentially residual smoke left on something. Like when you smoke for a while and come home and your clothes smell like smoke. Your clothes are giving off 3rd hand smoke. For a more full description: http://www.mayoclini...ke/faq-20057791

 

Oh no it was my bad I should have googled it, and I did.

[NapisaurusRex]

Just for argument's sake (Since this is debate section), should murder be legal? Or rape? Those laws "restrict" people from what they may want to do, to protect other's rights. With smoking, there are millions of papers showing the harm of 2nd hand smoke, and papers are even starting to rise showing 3rd hand smoke can be nearly as detrimental. Where do we draw the line between individual rights and rights of others/public at large?

So smoking should be banned everywhere then, even in the privacy of one's home?

[Kaddict]

Nah. But rape in the privacy of your home should be legal.

(I absolutely dont believe rape should be legal anywhere, nor do I feel smoking should be banned in your home, but I just decided to keep the debate going?)

[LostinSpace]

Just for argument's sake (Since this is debate section), should murder be legal? Or rape? Those laws "restrict" people from what they may want to do, to protect other's rights. With smoking, there are millions of papers showing the harm of 2nd hand smoke, and papers are even starting to rise showing 3rd hand smoke can be nearly as detrimental. Where do we draw the line between individual rights and rights of others/public at large?

 

I understand your point about the line between individual and group rights; however, this town isn't trying to outlaw smoking (although I suspect that would be next on the list), they are trying to ban buying and selling cigarettes.  And the purchase and sale of tobacco has not harmed anyone.  Why should this be turned into a legal matter at all?  As Americans, we give away our rights one tiny piece at a time.  It doesn't hurt much when we do it that way, but it all adds up.  Someone shoots up a school, next thing you know, people want to outlaw guns.  I am just not ready to give up my rights because of a stupid person committing an illegal act.  

 

Murder and rape both involve harming another person with intent.  Buying and selling cigarettes does not.  Even smoking does not.  Noone ever walked into a school and smoked a classroom to death.  The intent isn't there.  The "crimes" can't be lumped into one pile.  A cigarette isn't a weapon.  A bottle of liquor isn't a weapon.  Can they both kill?  Of course.  So can cars, and ropes, and knives, and bowling balls.  We can't outlaw all these things just because a few people are irresponsible.   

[NapisaurusRex]

Nah. But rape in the privacy of your home should be legal.

(I absolutely dont believe rape should be legal anywhere, nor do I feel smoking should be banned in your home, but I just decided to keep the debate going?)

Then how is second and third hand smoke a justifiable argument?

[Kaddict]

Then how is second and third hand smoke a justifiable argument?

Honestly, I don't understand what you are asking on this one?

[NapisaurusRex]

Honestly, I don't understand what you are asking on this one?

If second and third hand smoke are bad enough to ban them in public everywhere, why not in the privacy of peoples' homes? Wouldn't smoking in a house for 20 years have the same third hand smoke effect for the next renter/owner? Same for cars.

[Kaddict]

I could see them (sometime in the future) banning smoking around children/pregnant women. But there are so many things we do that have negative health affects on ourselves and others. I don't think they will do anything but continue to raise taxes on cigarettes. That is one tax I am fine with. From the economist standpoint, most people who want to smoke wont be deterred by an additional .50-1 dollar per pack (demand curve is intense) but would generate more revenue. 
In the renter example, there are ways (usually fairly expensive) to cover up the smell and harmful residues of cigs. For other things, I am much more ok with someone smelling like smoke than blowing it around. It is way less offensive. And we aren't really forced to be in an enclosed room with those people (diffusion causes dangerous particles to become sorta negligible in the open). That was really really really tangenty. Sorry.

[Frizzle]

Town wants to ban smoking on health grounds
Still sells fast food and encouraging obesity epidemic.

Logic.

[Kaddict]

Town wants to ban smoking on health grounds
Still sells fast food and encouraging obesity epidemic.

Logic.

Kinda how I feel, but with smoking, you are harming the health of others around you, whereas your poor eating habits are only going to give you diabetes and heart disease.

[NapisaurusRex]

Kinda how I feel, but with smoking, you are harming the health of others around you, whereas your poor eating habits are only going to give you diabetes and heart disease.

Not necessarily. Plenty of people with poor eating habits have children they teach their eating habits to.

[Kaddict]

Thats true. But now we go into the debates of Soda tax, banning happy meals and deciding whether governments should decide how parents raise their children.

[NapisaurusRex]

Thats true. But now we go into the debates of Soda tax, banning happy meals and deciding whether governments should decide how parents raise their children.

I believe that banning smoking is the beginning of that and we already have a thread on a soda tax.

[Kaddict]

Like I said, my town banned smoking in any place there is food. It was way controversial at the time, but people would never be able to go back now. My school also upped its smoking ban, they used to only allow smoking >15ft away from buildings, but now it is a totally smoke free campus. I dont feel like that is restricting rights of smokers, because they can smoke where they live, in their car etc. But if we were to ban it entirely, there would be too much restriction of rights, which I vehemently oppose (even though I hate smoking and am baffled how anyone of our generation smokes cigs)

[Frizzle]

There are no major links between open air space and smoking second hand. In confined spaces I totally agree but it's hard to take advice from officials when fast food is crippling countries, Diesel engines are sold by the thousands and mental health services are severely underfunded all for the guise of "public health".

[HiMyNameIsNick]

Amazing idea.

[NeoVix]

All stuff like this does is give more business to the illegal backy sellers IMO.

 

Cigarettes and tobacco are so expensive in England that I use our local backy man anyway (7 quid for 50g..compared to 20 quid or more in the shops...) but if smoking was banned in a certain area..you can bet that more people would start using people like this, instead of going to the nearest area that did sell them legally.

 

Also I laugh at how governments and stuff make out they want people to stop smoking. Then products such as e-cigs help LOADS of people to stop, the government shits themselves because they are losing so much tax revenue, so all of a sudden e-cigs are banned in public places aswell as cigs are and there is loads of stories in the rags about how they are as bad for your health as cigs are. I find it amusing seeing them try to make out they give a shit about peoples health, but at the same time they really really do not want people to stop smoking

Edited by Vicky87, 26 April 2015 - 06:18 AM.