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Should Keeping Religion out of Schools include Food?

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#1 Jess

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:44 AM

'It's pork or nothing', French mayor tells pupils

After town halls were told to remove nativity scenes because they were against the principle of “laicïté” one mayor in the south of France has used the same argument to justify “a pork or nothing” policy in his school.

 

From what I understand in another book, most French schools don't allow food to be brought from home or generally offer substitutes for other reasons.

 

Is refusing to offer substitutions for religious reasons consistent with keeping schools secular? 



#2 Padme

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:02 PM

I think refusing to offer substitutions is ridiculous regardless of religion but especially if it imposes on something such as that. It's one thing to ban displaying religious motifs and the like but not feeding a child because it goes against their religious beliefs to consume that food? That's a little too far imo.

 

However, this is really how French culture is. That's how a lot of children there are raised, without substitutions that's why a lot of people say things like "French kids will eat anything" or "French kids aren't fussy."  



#3 Romy

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:04 PM

If the only alternative is letting the kid go hungry during class, why not?



#4 Alexiel

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:20 PM

I think this is completely reasonable for the school system there. You can't just up and change the entire system for so few students without causing problems. From the cooks' standpoint, potential additional costs or waste, to how other kids could treat these students, or even other parents of non-special diet students reactions.

 

However, they should be willing to be flexible. Find a compromise. To not do so... that is where it's unreasonable.

Instead of offering substitutions allow those students with special diets to bring something from home on days that the menu would conflict.

Alternatively, cut out the problem food (pork or whatever else may come up eventually) and give an extra serving or two of fruits & vegetables. Allow the parents to make up for the missing meat outside of school hours.

Both of which shouldn't cause any negative problems on the schools' end while not forcing them to "eat or starve" or whatever.



#5 Frizzle

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:35 PM

Unless it's a medically proven disability, the only food that is given should be provided by the school. Food like Halal and Kosher food should be banned full stop, allowing animal cruelty in the name of a sky grandad is down right absurd.

#6 Bone

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 02:14 PM

Children have a right to eat a nutritious meal without having to discard their principles. Forbidding a student to bring something else and refusing to provide an alternative meal (which wouldn't even cost more) is cruel. I wonder how this school would deal with children wishing to eat a vegetarian meal?

 

It's ridiculous how often this kind of thing happens in France, ostensibly in the name of secularism. 

 

Unless it's a medically proven disability, the only food that is given should be provided by the school. Food like Halal and Kosher food should be banned full stop, allowing animal cruelty in the name of a sky grandad is down right absurd.

 

As if conventional slaughter practices are appreciably more humane...



#7 Frizzle

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 02:45 PM

Well yes, that's the whole point. Unless you believe slicing something's throat and letting the animal die slowly, hanging in mid air is acceptable?

#8 Bone

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 02:52 PM

Well yes, that's the whole point. Unless you believe slicing something's throat and letting the animal die slowly, hanging in mid air is acceptable?

 

In any case, no one is demanding halal or kosher alternatives are offered (“We are not asking for halal or kosher meat,” one mother told France blue radio. “We just want a meal with substitute protein.”), so I'm not sure what you're getting at.



#9 Frizzle

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:42 PM

Well...my previous point.

#10 Bone

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:21 PM

Well...my previous point.

 

Which isn't relevant to the topic.



#11 Frizzle

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:30 PM

"Should keeping religion out of school include food?"

#12 CaptainDantes

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:06 PM

Unless it's a medically proven disability, the only food that is given should be provided by the school. Food like Halal and Kosher food should be banned full stop, allowing animal cruelty in the name of a sky grandad is down right absurd.

For the most part yes. But a lot of kosher beef now is stunned before they are exsanguinated - which would be exactly what is done with just about all chicken you eat anyway.

To me, the separation of church and state in the schools is about what you teach. If a kid/family believes in a certain religion and need to eat whatever they eat - they should be allowed to do so.

Edited by CaptainDantes, 12 December 2014 - 05:09 PM.


#13 Jess

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 07:21 PM

To me, the separation of church and state in the schools is about what you teach. If a kid/family believes in a certain religion and need to eat whatever they eat - they should be allowed to do so.

Allowed to do so to what extent though?

#14 CaptainDantes

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 12:35 AM

Allowed to do so to what extent though?


They should be allowed to bring their own food. That way, the school doesn't have to worry about cost or be accused of favoring one religion over another. Everyone is allowed their own beliefs so long as they're not forcing them on anyone else.

So what I was saying is that keeping school secular to me means not teaching that the world was made in 6 days but instead teaching what is supported by science. Schools should be allowed to give a brief overview of what other people in the world think, which could foster more tolerance - but they better make sure to cover a lot of religions so as not to bias one over the other. That's why we have churches/mosques/etc - so that people can be fed religious ideals in their own place of worship. But once a school starts saying that one religion is right or going in depth teaching about one religion and not another that's when the secular lines get blurred.

#15 Mishelle

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 07:16 AM

I agree that the kids should be able to bring their own food. If they don't offer alternatives the kids are not going to eat and they won't be able to focus in school to learn which is the entire point of going to school. I think it's silly to ban kids from bringing their own food, at my school kids were always able to bring a sack lunch and in high school we were allowed to leave campus and go to lunch somewhere else.

#16 vay

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:03 PM

I think children should be allowed to bring their own food! There is no harm in such an act...at least there should be no rules against such thing. It seems pretty absurd to me!



#17 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:34 PM

First world problems



#18 pietro

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:57 PM

My gradeschools and highschools always had to provide a vegetarian option for students, but I am in the states. That's strange to imagine it otherwise.



#19 ortin

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:24 PM

First world problems

Just because the problems are in the first world doesn't necessarily mean we should just ignore it.





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