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#51 Hawk

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:41 PM

I can't believe this is even up for debate.

 

If you do not vaccinate your children (excluding MEDICAL EXCEPTIONS), your children should not be allowed in any public school.  I'd also go as far as to call the parents fools because their children may be punished as a result of the their parents's stupidity/ignorance.

 

 

There are about 2000 deaths from strep throat yearly. So where's the strep vaccine? Why aren't people freaking out about strep in public areas?

Because strep throat can be treated easily with antibiotics.

 

You're thinking of invasive Group A Strep, which is different from strep throat.

 

Here's an excerpt from the CDC:

Approximately 9,000-11,500 cases of invasive GAS disease occur each year in the United States, resulting in 1,000-1,800 deaths annually. STSS and necrotizing fasciitis are each responsible for an average of about 6%-7% of these invasive cases. In contrast, there are several million cases of strep throat and impetigo each year.

 

Few people who come in contact with GAS will develop invasive GAS disease. Most people will have a throat or skin infection, and some may have no symptoms at all. Although healthy people can get invasive GAS disease, people with chronic illnesses like cancer, diabetes, and chronic heart or lung disease, and those who use medications such as steroids have a higher risk. People with skin lesions (such as cuts, chickenpox, or surgical wounds), the elderly, and adults with a history of alcohol abuse or injection drug use also have a higher risk for disease. Source

 

 



#52 Adam

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:50 PM

I checked my white privilege, and it told me to stay away from anyone that's not white because only white people can afford to vaccinate their children.

 

The CDC, as an institution, is a social injustice and needs to be outlawed. 

Vaccinations, as an institution, is a social injustice and needs to be outlawed. 

White people, as an institution, are a social injustice and need to be outlawed. 

 

I honestly won't be mad if mods delete this completely arbitrary, and seemingly off topic comment.

#thanksobama

#thankswhiteprivilege 

wtf am I talking about? I may have consumed too much alcohol on a school night.Oh don't forget that all white people are racists. amirite?



#53 Jess

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 01:33 PM

Because strep throat can be treated easily with antibiotics.
 
You're thinking of invasive Group A Strep, which is different from strep throat.
 
Here's an excerpt from the CDC:

No, I'm not and no they aren't. There's Group A and B, and the vast majority of people who get strep throat are Group A, since Group B is found in the intestines and vagina.


From your source,

 

 

A: Infection with GAS can result in a range of illnesses:
  • Mild illness such as strep throat or impetigo
  • Severe illness such as pneumonia, necrotizing fasciitis, or streptococcal toxic shock syndrome


#54 Hawk

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:12 PM

No, I'm not and no they aren't. There's Group A and B, and the vast majority of people who get strep throat are Group A, since Group B is found in the intestines and vagina.


From your source,

If you feel like lecturing me please read up on the difference between invasive and non-invasive.  I thought I clearly spelled that out in the previous post.  I even quoted the difference between the two.

 

Strep throat (which is exactly what you called it in the quote I referenced - Not the strep bacteria) is not the same as invasive GAS.  Same bacteria, different results.  There is a over two orders of magnitude difference in the number of cases of strep throat and impetigo versus the cases of invasive GAS, and three orders of magnitude difference between the mild cases and death.

 

:rolleyes:



#55 Romy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 04:24 PM

I don't understand you Americans sometimes. I don't follow this debate that much (as it's stupid in so many ways) so I'm unsure as to what people's actual reasons are for not wanting to get their kid vaccinated. Vaccinations have saved so many lives it's absolutely absurd. 

 

Also see: How do vaccines cause autism?

 

Despite being American, I agree 10000000% with this.



#56 Jess

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:18 PM

If you feel like lecturing me please read up on the difference between invasive and non-invasive.  I thought I clearly spelled that out in the previous post.  I even quoted the difference between the two.
 
Strep throat (which is exactly what you called it in the quote I referenced - Not the strep bacteria) is not the same as invasive GAS.  Same bacteria, different results.  There is a over two orders of magnitude difference in the number of cases of strep throat and impetigo versus the cases of invasive GAS, and three orders of magnitude difference between the mild cases and death.

I also thought I clearly spelled it out for you. It is the same bacteria. It causes different things in different people. Just like measles, chicken pox, staph, and tampons. In some people it causes strep throat. In some people it causes death. You changing the end result of what the bacteria causes doesn't make it a different bacteria. There was also a magnitude of differences between the mild cases of measles and the deaths, prior to vaccinations. Unless you're just picky about me using the term 'strep throat'? We can call it 'GAS' to make you feel better, if you want.

#57 Hawk

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:31 PM

I also thought I clearly spelled it out for you. It is the same bacteria. It causes different things in different people. Just like measles, chicken pox, staph, and tampons. In some people it causes strep throat. In some people it causes death. You changing the end result of what the bacteria causes doesn't make it a different bacteria. There was also a magnitude of differences between the mild cases of measles and the deaths, prior to vaccinations. Unless you're just picky about me using the term 'strep throat'? We can call it 'GAS' to make you feel better, if you want.

It causes different things in different people because it gets to different places.  Once it's no longer in the throat, it's no longer "Strep Throat"!  The fuck is so hard to grasp about that?  You said it was "strep throat" causing deaths, and I politely corrected you.  Literally the next sentence after the piece you quoted:

 

 

 

Severe, sometimes life-threatening GAS disease may occur when these bacteria get into parts of the body where bacteria usually are not found, such as the blood, muscle, or the lungs. These infections are called "invasive GAS disease."

 

It's a different diagnosis than strep throat.  I am being picky because your statement about strep throat causing deaths is wrong.



#58 Jess

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:52 PM

Fine. I'm wrong. So where is the strep vaccine?

#59 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:04 PM

It causes different things in different people because it gets to different places.  Once it's no longer in the throat, it's no longer "Strep Throat"!  The fuck is so hard to grasp about that?  You said it was "strep throat" causing deaths, and I politely corrected you.  Literally the next sentence after the piece you quoted:

 

 

It's a different diagnosis than strep throat.  I am being picky because your statement about strep throat causing deaths is wrong.

 

Indeed, they are sequelae, or secondary illnesses (a good number of which are autoimmune in nature owing to cross-reactivity of immune responses aimed at the streptococcal bacteria themselves with self-tissue instead, such as cells lining the heart valves, etc.). In such cases, the disease isn't even caused by the bacteria still being present or septicemic travel throughout the body but rather the body's own immune response attacking the host (meaning YOU).

 

*steps off of science geek soap box*



#60 DonValentino

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:08 PM

Indeed, they are sequelae, or secondary illnesses (a good number of which are autoimmune in nature owing to cross-reactivity of immune responses aimed at the streptococcal bacteria themselves with self-tissue instead, such as cells lining the heart valves, etc.). In such cases, the disease isn't even caused by the bacteria still being present or septicemic travel throughout the body but rather the body's own immune response attacking the host (meaning YOU).

 

*steps off of science geek soap box*

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#61 Romy

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 06:17 PM

Indeed, they are sequelae, or secondary illnesses (a good number of which are autoimmune in nature owing to cross-reactivity of immune responses aimed at the streptococcal bacteria themselves with self-tissue instead, such as cells lining the heart valves, etc.). In such cases, the disease isn't even caused by the bacteria still being present or septicemic travel throughout the body but rather the body's own immune response attacking the host (meaning YOU).

 

*steps off of science geek soap box*

What causes your immune system to go into ovedrive like that though? Is it some kind of allergic reaction?

 

I just find it hard to grasp how a bacterial infection (however severe) can prompt an autoimmune response.



#62 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 06:19 PM

What causes your immune system to go into ovedrive like that though? Is it some kind of allergic reaction?

 

I just find it hard to grasp how a bacterial infection (however severe) can prompt an autoimmune response.

 

Antigenic cross-reactivity.



#63 ortin

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:11 PM

Antigenic cross-reactivity.

Uh, what does that mean? :p



#64 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:14 PM

Uh, what does that mean? :p

 

Do a little digging into molecular mimicry as well as T-cell receptor cross-reactivity; it's quite an information-dense area, but it's out there. ;)



#65 ortin

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:36 PM

Do a little digging into molecular mimicry as well as T-cell receptor cross-reactivity; it's quite an information-dense area, but it's out there. ;)

Yeah, the scholarly articles Google came up with is too much for my feeble brain :(



#66 Branlaur

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 12:41 AM

Do a little digging into molecular mimicry as well as T-cell receptor cross-reactivity; it's quite an information-dense area, but it's out there. ;)

Uhhhhh, what? Don't know what half of this means.



#67 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 04:58 PM

Uhhhhh, what? Don't know what half of this means.

 

No worries, and nobody should necessarily even know/care...I suffer the after-effects of having spent too many years in college working to get a Ph.D. in the immunology field, which is the ONLY reason I even had a thought to share on the topic. ;)



#68 DonValentino

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:02 PM

You should see her linkedin profile if you think this is bad :p



#69 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:05 PM

You should see her linkedin profile if you think this is bad :p

 

LMAO!!! Don't out me as the tremendously huge geek that I really am. :D



#70 DonValentino

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:19 PM

LMAO!!! Don't out me as the tremendously huge geek that I really am. :D

 

Hehe alright Marie Curie your secret is safe with me ;)



#71 SheOfTheEnderworld

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:21 PM

Hehe alright Marie Curie your secret is safe with me ;)

 

You're totally due rep, but I am out for the day...I'LL BE BACK lmao! :D  :wub:



#72 pietro

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:18 PM

In my experience, the only people who are anti-vaccines are usually semi or completely ignorant as to what vaccines actually are and how they work. Even the people that think they do, are usually wrong.

 

Basically, if you truly are smart enough to understand how they work, you would never be an "anti-vaxxer".



#73 Jess

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 08:38 AM

In my experience, the only people who are anti-vaccines are usually semi or completely ignorant as to what vaccines actually are and how they work. Even the people that think they do, are usually wrong.

 

Basically, if you truly are smart enough to understand how they work, you would never be an "anti-vaxxer".

Using that logic, it's shocking how anti-vaxxers are smart enough to be doctors.



#74 DonValentino

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 02:29 PM

You're totally due rep, but I am out for the day...I'LL BE BACK lmao! :D  :wub:

 

il_570xN.205536739.jpg



#75 KyloRen

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 02:32 PM

Do a little digging into molecular mimicry as well as T-cell receptor cross-reactivity; it's quite an information-dense area, but it's out there. ;)

I'm going to guess this has something to do with molecules mimicking each other, which may cause a problem if you chose the wrong molecule for something, and T-cells having receptors that are reacting to things that other cells have receptors for, but that T-cells shouldn't be reacting towards. 

 

So say that a  T-cell has a receptor for a triangle. Another cell has a receptor for a square, but the T-cell's receptor is reacting to the square when the T-cells receptor is for a triangle. 

 

That's all I can figure out with my knowledge from AP Bio. 




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