169 replies to this topic

[Kaddict]

What do you guys think about this? What caveats would be included? 

[Frizzle]

Yes. An educated population is only a good thing. But that's socialism so not available in the US.

[Grimley]

What do you guys think about this? What caveats would be included? 

 

Firstly, how would you make this economically sustainable to begin with?

[Swar]

Definitely. Everyone should have a chance to go to college, no matter how poor they are. Our free colleges used to be really good. They still are excellent, I'm trying for them, but unfortunately a lot of them are being abandoned by the government.

[Kass]

This reminded me of something I remember seeing in my government class that I thought was pretty interesting.

 

In the Arizona Constitution (Article 11, Section 6) it says: "The university and all other state educational institutions shall be open to students of both sexes, and the instruction furnished shall be as nearly free as possible."

 

I don't know what happened, but college is expensive nowadays... 

[HiMyNameIsNick]

Both education and health-care / medical services MUST be free.

Edited by HiMyNameIsNick, 12 November 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Lollita]

Both education and health-care / medical services MUST be free.

 

Yes. We have both for free here, not perfect, but all free.

 

Definitely. Everyone should have a chance to go to college, no matter how poor they are. Our free colleges used to be really good. They still are excellent, I'm trying for them, but unfortunately a lot of them are being abandoned by the government.

 

Yes, at least in my state the public college is better than any private one. I'm from Paraná btw haha

[Romy]

More taxes duh. Depends on where the tax is placed though, that makes the difference. It could come from closing corporate loopholes and actually fully taxing corporations, increasing the tax on the rich, increasing the tax on everyone, increasing the tax on the middle/low class (why???), or increasing taxes on a specific industry. Lots of ways to do it!

But Reaganomics! Don't you know that by taxing the rich we make them less willing to give jobs to people? Don't you know anything about trickle down economics?

 

Jeez Nitro. So naive.

[Swar]

Yes, at least in my state the public college is better than any private one. I'm from Paraná btw haha

Of course it had to be from the South

 

We have 4 in Rio, I think. The most famous one, UFRJ, is looking really bad They're completely neglecting the place.

[Rauul]

Both education and health-care / medical services MUST be free.

 

we have Education and health care for free  

[Lollita]

Of course it had to be from the South

 

We have 4 in Rio, I think. The most famous one, UFRJ, is looking really bad They're completely neglecting the place.

 

Yeah, I heard that some private colleges in SP and in Rio are better then public. I don't know if that's a possible reason, but we only have one here, the UFPR.

[Swar]

Yeah, I heard that some private colleges in SP and in Rio are better then public. I don't know if that's a possible reason, but we only have one here, the UFPR.

They're super expensive, though. Especially medicine. UERJ and UFF are still pretty good.

[Lollita]

They're super expensive, though. Especially medicine. UERJ and UFF are still pretty good.

 

Yes, medicine all around the country is so expensive, It is a shame really   And in those for free, its really hard. Some people spend years and years trying to get in.

Edited by LollitaM, 12 November 2015 - 07:36 PM.

[Kaddict]

My undergrad college offered a scholarship (with money from tobacco company settlements) to all people who graduated from our state and attended college in our state. When it was implemented, the only requirement (other than residency) was a 2.0 GPA. It made it essentially free to attend college for in-state-ers. This caused the graduation rate to PLUMMET because people wouldn't really lose anything by failing their classes, since they hadn't invested anything into it (other than their time, which they clearly hadn't invested because they wouldn't go to class). I think there should be very cheap options (or grants more widely available to people of low SES) but I think that having something for free makes people take it for granted more. Also, it is not feasible to have it free all around. I am sure everyone (in the states) has seen that clip floating around facebook of the Fox news guy telling off the leader of the millionstudentmarch thingy that even if they taxed they 1%ers at 100%, it wouldn't cover the cost of tuition.

[savethekings]

I don't think that a college education benefits everyone necessarily. I think that trade schools are much better than college for most people. I also feel like there are already free options to increase your education (if that is your goal) like the Khan Academy. I don't think college should be free. There are dirt cheap options and government grants available for people, so money isn't an excuse to not go if it is a big enough priority for you.

[Swar]

Here you basically have to study 24/7 every day to get in, because it's so many people trying to get in, and in the end it's really hard to see someone take it for granted. Usually the ones in private college take it for granted, mostly because their parents are the ones paying. Of course it's hard to compare to the US, because our education system is completely different.

 

One thing I don't like is the selection process. We have an exam every year, which you can use your score to try for 2 free college options (you can change them while the registration period is open). The exam is the same for the whole country, so the questions have to be in a way that everyone would be able to do, but this is a huge country. That's impossible. It's extremely tiring, two days with 90 questions in each day, and you only have that chance through the whole year. And there's a lot of luck involved in it too. I think your grades from middle/high school shoud matter too.

[Ehentalix]

College, and all higher education, should absolutely be free, or at least heavily subsidized. There is no reason that students should have to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just to be able to get a degree, or even tens of thousands. As it stands, government grants and loans don't always cover everything, and working a minimum wage job in the USA sure as Hell doesn't. And that's assuming you get anything at all, since it's incredibly easy to be passed over for these sorts of things.

 

As for things like Khan Academy, good luck getting your certification recognized by potential employers. Hell, there are actual real colleges that are brushed off when they pop up on resumes.

[Keil]

No because I paid for most of my college experience and I don't want newer generations to miss out the excruciating experience of buying cool stuff instead of food.

[Kaddict]

College, and all higher education, should absolutely be free, or at least heavily subsidized. There is no reason that students should have to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just to be able to get a degree, or even tens of thousands. As it stands, government grants and loans don't always cover everything, and working a minimum wage job in the USA sure as Hell doesn't. And that's assuming you get anything at all, since it's incredibly easy to be passed over for these sorts of things.

 

As for things like Khan Academy, good luck getting your certification recognized by potential employers. Hell, there are actual real colleges that are brushed off when they pop up on resumes.

Students don't have to go that far into debt. They don't have to go to colleges that cost $50,000/year. They don't have to be unemployed while in school. There are always cheap options, grants and scholarships for people to graduate with minimal debt. Heck, I only applied to medical schools that would cost me <$30,000/year because I don't have to go $300,000 in debt. I have a choice.

[xjennibx]

It should but then this is life.. Life sucks

[savethekings]

College, and all higher education, should absolutely be free, or at least heavily subsidized. There is no reason that students should have to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just to be able to get a degree, or even tens of thousands. As it stands, government grants and loans don't always cover everything, and working a minimum wage job in the USA sure as Hell doesn't. And that's assuming you get anything at all, since it's incredibly easy to be passed over for these sorts of things.

 

As for things like Khan Academy, good luck getting your certification recognized by potential employers. Hell, there are actual real colleges that are brushed off when they pop up on resumes.

That is why I said if education is your goal. Not if a degree is your goal.

 

Most people's main reason of going to college is to get a training on their future career, and Khan Academy isn't going to cut it most of the time. 

How many classes in college did you take that were actually applicable and useful for a career? Very few. I actually think the internet is a much more efficient way of learning, again if learning (not a degree) is your goal. Like Frizzle said, have an educated society is good. Universities aren't the only (or, even the best) way to do that.

[Kaddict]

So, you're also saying students don't have to get a better education?

What is better with the education at an institution that costs 50k/year from one that costs 10k/year? If you think the amount of learning that happens in college is proportional to the amount that you pay, than having free college would leave us all stupid.

[savethekings]

How is learning a cello not possible through the internet? I learned guitar through the internet. And piano. I am not playing rachmaninov, but I don't put much effort into it. 

[Kaddict]

 

That is why I said if education is your goal. Not if a degree is your goal.

 

How many classes in college did you take that were actually applicable and useful for a career? Very few. I actually think the internet is a much more efficient way of learning, again if learning (not a degree) is your goal. Like Frizzle said, have an educated society is good. Universities aren't the only (or, even the best) way to do that.

Yeah, honestly in undergrad, there were only a handful of classes that actually helped me with my future career (medicine). And I was taking very heavily biology/chemistry stuff. Some careers have more applicable classes, but still everyone has to take tons of garbage classes that don't really help them in life at all. Maybe they became more 'educated' but like you said, they can get that from anything. Online/books whatever.

 

 

EDIT: Actually, my school has newer and nicer facilities than Stanford. Our tuition is 40% what theirs is. With schools like Stanford, you are paying a lot for the name more than facilities and stuff. My friends and I have toured all the ivy med schools and were actually really underwhelmed with them. That is why I decided to stay in my hometown (nicer facilities plus WAY cheaper). But I realize that that isn't always the case. ie. Universities tend to have better facilities than 2-4 year community colleges etc.

Edited by Kaddict, 12 November 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[Kaddict]

Well, I spent the past 8 years learning the cello through an actual teacher and putting in many hours of work into practicing every day, and I'm nowhere near being at the professional level. It's just a hunch of mine that there's no way some average run of the mill guy can become a professional cellist by watching some online videos. Classical music is one of the most training-wise demanding professions (and also has some of the least returns monetarily lol).

ha. My friend in high school grew up wanting to be an engineer. His senior year of high school (or his freshman year of college) he told his mom he wanted to be a music teacher. She cried. Not in a good way. Ha. I always feel bad for how little (real) musicians make.