169 replies to this topic

[Adam]

Yes I inherited money and houses, but I didn't rely on any of that beforehand. I joined army at 17 and got out and I've worked for government and contracting ever since. I don't see any reason why someone cannot work and get ahead, unless above a medical condition which majority does not have.

Poor kids from the slums/ghetto can always join the military, get their education. I don't understand why they wouldn't do their service and then get college and a skill set. I was infantry, undoubtedly the worst job for careers, but I did well. So if I can, then anyone can.

I understand what you're saying -- hard work and dedication can get you just about anywhere. However, if we're using underprivileged people from less fortunate areas then we also have to consider their influences. I haven't looked up statistics on what about I'm about to say, but I'll use the area I grew up in as an example. In more poor areas there is a higher chance of gang activity. Kids whose parents were/are members of gangs will be subjected to that lifestyle, and may follow in their parents (dangerous) footsteps. They may follow those footsteps down a dark path, commit some sort of crime, and not be eligible for military service. There goes that route. There are also the people who don't exactly support the military's decisions on war, policies, etc, and thus refuse to join. You have to understand that not everyone grew up like yourself, and just about everyone will have differing opinions. If you're willing to dedicate yourself to maintaining a good GPA, and possibly even have a part time job, then I see no problem with free education.

decisions 

[DregsandDregs]

If your aim was to give me an interesting factoid that I didn't know about, you've succeeded. Otherwise the first line is arbitrary, and really doesn't mean much.

 

I agree with the second line. Being poor is tough, if you're willing to put in an ounce of work passed just showing up then education should be offered at no cost.

 

One part factoid, one part we're bribing our poor and underprivileged because we're so desperate for a military, we're resorting to the more savoy means that Hitler, who wanted an active war and to try and take over the world, did.  This isn't a "Gasp, Hitler drank water."  This isn't (exactly) Godwin's law.

 

This is me pointing out that we're bribing people into the military like a country on war-footing did.  We do so much military spending.  It's kinda creepy.

 

Yes I inherited money and houses, but I didn't rely on any of that beforehand. I joined army at 17 and got out and I've worked for government and contracting ever since. I don't see any reason why someone cannot work and get ahead, unless above a medical condition which majority does not have.

Poor kids from the slums/ghetto can always join the military, get their education. I don't understand why they wouldn't do their service and then get college and a skill set. I was infantry, undoubtedly the worst job for careers, but I did well. So if I can, then anyone can.

 

One word: Hepatitis.

 

It's very common in poor people, thanks to drugs, and easily transmits mother to child.  And it disqualifies you from military work.

[Coops]

One part factoid, one part we're bribing our poor and underprivileged because we're so desperate for a military, we're resorting to the more savoy means that Hitler, who wanted an active war and to try and take over the world, did.  This isn't a "Gasp, Hitler drank water."  This isn't (exactly) Godwin's law.

 

This is me pointing out that we're bribing people into the military like a country on war-footing did.  We do so much military spending.  It's kinda creepy.

 

 

One word: Hepatitis.

 

It's very common in poor people, thanks to drugs, and easily transmits mother to child.  And it disqualifies you from military work.

It's funny you mention hep. That's why I was disqualified from joining the Air Force, as I had originally planned, because my meth/coke addicted mother gave it to me. I had to undergo chemotherapy to treat it my freshmen year of college. I didn't even know I had it until I donated blood because I was adopted and born before hepatitis panels at birth were common. It's a fucking miracle I didn't also get liver cancer because the longer you go undiagnosed, the more likely you are to get cancer from it. My VL was so high they were amazed there was not much damage to my liver. I have to get tested annually to ensure I don't "relapse". It's why I rarely drink and never get trashed. 

The mindset FreedomPenguin has is very distasteful for a lot of personal reasons, as I'm sure you can all see. I've been systematically screwed over because of poor genetics, being adopted and such. It's why I will always advocate for accessible healthcare and education. That's why it's absolutely necessary. God forbid someone get as fucked over as I. And people do. Every day. In some ways, worse than I have. As much as I've been fucked, I'm also incredibly fortunate to have a house, food and luxuries like internet and shit.

[johnny2394]

maybe if not free a lot cheaper pl0x haha

cheaper education = more readily accessible to everyone which in return could help our country in the long run at least I think so

[Urbex]

Free college won't be free, you'll end up seeing a huge increase in your taxes, and guess why that's there? Your so called "free" college.

Not to mention, those who attend private universities will end up paying for the private university and some portion of a "public" university education that they are not using.

[Turnip]

Free college won't be free, you'll end up seeing a huge increase in your taxes, and guess why that's there? Your so called "free" college.

Not to mention, those who attend private universities will end up paying for the private university and some portion of a "public" university education that they are not using.

 

Is it really that bad to spend a little extra to help others out? It's not as if they would be making you pay $50k for it every year.

[Adam]

Is it really that bad to spend a little extra to help others out? It's not as if they would be making you pay $50k for it every year.

We'll see how much this "little extra" would turn out to be. I already pay $500 a month in state/federal taxes.

[Swar]

Is it really that bad to spend a little extra to help others out? It's not as if they would be making you pay $50k for it every year.

And I'm sure they have plenty of stupid taxes, but when it comes to free college/healthcare a bunch of people complain...

[Frizzle]

We'll see how much this "little extra" would turn out to be. I already pay $500 a month in state/federal taxes.

That's a tiny amount, I think I pay around £1,000 direct tax a month.

[Urbex]

Is it really that bad to spend a little extra to help others out? It's not as if they would be making you pay $50k for it every year.

Yes, as someone who attends private university, yes it would be that bad. I shouldn't have to struggle to afford both my own university and someone else's just because they can't afford it.

 

We'll see how much this "little extra" would turn out to be. I already pay $500 a month in state/federal taxes.

Exactly. It wouldn't be a "little extra" it would be quite a bit extra for absolutely no benefit to those attending private university.

[HiMyNameIsNick]

Yes, as someone who attends private university, yes it would be that bad. I shouldn't have to struggle to afford both my own university and someone else's just because they can't afford it.

 

 

Why so selfish for fuck's sake?

[Coops]

Free college won't be free, you'll end up seeing a huge increase in your taxes, and guess why that's there? Your so called "free" college.

Not to mention, those who attend private universities will end up paying for the private university and some portion of a "public" university education that they are not using.

You already pay taxes for education. It's being mismanaged and the use of our taxes has been mismanaged to benefit wealthier people and corporations. It's not free. No one is suggesting free, because it would be subsidized with our taxes, that is paying for it. We're suggesting using our taxes on shit that actually benefits everyone instead of the few.

[Urbex]

Why so selfish for fuck's sake?

I fail to see how that's very selfish. I shouldn't put myself into a financial crisis with thousands in debt so someone else can get free education. That's just not logical.

 

You already pay taxes for education. It's being mismanaged and the use of our taxes has been mismanaged to benefit wealthier people and corporations. It's not free. No one is suggesting free, because it would be subsidized with our taxes, that is paying for it. We're suggesting using our taxes on shit that actually benefits everyone instead of the few.

Well, Bernie Sanders is suggesting its free. I understand I pay taxes for education, that's for public grade and high schools and it's already not enough to support those systems. Adding an additional educational system to draw from the same funds would be anything but beneficial.

[HiMyNameIsNick]

I fail to see how that's very selfish. I shouldn't put myself into a financial crisis with thousands in debt so someone else can get free education. That's just not logical.

 

 

You fail to see how that's selfish and you are going to college?

What's wrong with education these days?

[Coops]

I fail to see how that's very selfish. I shouldn't put myself into a financial crisis with thousands in debt so someone else can get free education. That's just not logical.

 

Well, Bernie Sanders is suggesting its free. I understand I pay taxes for education, that's for public grade and high schools and it's already not enough to support those systems. Adding an additional educational system to draw from the same funds would be anything but beneficial.

No. Bernie Sanders is suggesting a new tax plan that is far more fair. He is suggesting taking down criminals on Wall Street and giving new people a chance to manage banks and corporations. He is demanding accountability and responsibility on the part of those involved in the recession, political mismanagement and financial mismanagement. He wants a single payer healthcare system, to streamline how Americans can get access to doctors - all of these things will save us money and in the long run support fiscal responsibility and the ability to fund education and health.

And contrary to your belief, although you're attending a private college/uni, your education is subsidized by every single citizen who pays taxes. Private universities get subsidies/deductions too. So, you not wanting to return the favor to those who don't have the luxury to attend a private university, or any university, college or trade school is selfish.

[Coops]

Funny enough, Trump is clamoring for much the same on these issues 

I don't believe he is genuine, considering how racist and sexist he is, and that he is a known liar who takes money from super-PACs and PACs. I just don't think I can believe he intends to hold the richest and most powerful people in America accountable for their part in the political and fiscal mismanagement of our nation. That is just my opinion though. 

[Adam]

That's a tiny amount, I think I pay around £1,000 direct tax a month.

Interesting, I guess that's why your public services are far more affordable/free than ours (healthcare).

 

You don't have to answer this question if you don't want to -- roughly what percentage of your monthly income is that £1000?  I wouldn't mind paying less than $50 a month for Bernie's plans.

 

Why is the '1' so small...?dafuck I don't like 

[Frizzle]

Interesting, I guess that's why your public services are far more affordable/free than ours (healthcare).

You don't have to answer this question if you don't want to -- roughly what percentage of your monthly income is that £1000? I wouldn't mind paying less than $50 a month for Bernie's plans.

Why is the '1' so small...?dafuck I don't like

Yeah generally our tax system means we pay a lot more than yanks, but we get a lot out of it.

Generally income tax is 20% of what you earn between £12,500 - £38,000 (ish).

So let's say you make £25,000 a year, you would 20% of the money you earn between £12,500 - £25,000 which would equate to £2000 a year income tax.

We also pay national insurance which is basically an additional tax to pay towards the NHS which is the free healthcare we always talk about. I'm not really 100% certain how much it is, but I would hazard a guess it's around 10% of what you earn.

I generally make about £46,000 a year (pre-tax and with overtime) which means I pay roughly £1,000 a year. If I do less overtime I obviously pay tax.

On top of that I "have" to pay 14% of my pensionable income towards my pension.

What that means in lay men's terms is that my basic wage (without overtime and location allowances), my basic wage is actually around £33-34,000 a year. So that's an additional £4,760 a year apparently. So, yeah, I generally pay around £1300-1400 a month just in "taxes".

Which sounds a lot, but I get shot, stabbed, get cancer etc I can have full treatment, with physiotherapist, chemo etc (and I mean full treatment) without paying a single penny.

I would probably say the tax alone is 25% of my monthly income, so I would take home almost £4,000 a month without tax/NI

[Cass]

Yes, college should definitely be free. Not only because it's financially beneficial, but also because it will have to be state run. I've seen the privatisation of universities happen here in the Netherlands (along with many other public services). I don't know what idiot thought that was a good idea. Education went down the drain. When it was state run, universities worked on their grade average, trying to deliver top class students each year. Since universities became companies, we suddenly saw a magical increase of graduates each year. Fun fact: universities get money for each graduate they produce. Students became numbers.

Making colleges free makes them staterun and changes their goal, further ensuring the quality of education.

[Rainforce]

Yes, college should definitely be free. Not only because it's financially beneficial, but also because it will have to be state run. I've seen the privatisation of universities happen here in the Netherlands (along with many other public services). I don't know what idiot thought that was a good idea. Education went down the drain. When it was state run, universities worked on their grade average, trying to deliver top class students each year. Since universities became companies, we suddenly saw a magical increase of graduates each year. Fun fact: universities get money for each graduate they produce. Students became numbers.

Making colleges free makes them staterun and changes their goal, further ensuring the quality of education.

 

I agree. I'm also from the Netherlands and education should be state run again. The quality of education is only going down at the moment. I hate being only a number. They don't care about you as long as you graduate so the universities can get their money.