169 replies to this topic

[Kaddict]

Also, it would only take about $62.9 billion per year to make college free. I'm saying it's only $62.9 billion, because in comparison the U.S. spent $3.8 trillion this year. Free college education would increase the budget by only 1.6%, which can easily be met by cutting programs a tiny bit, raising taxes a bit, or outright increasing the federal expenditures, or some combination of those. 

 

TL;DR Bernie Sanders isn't actually crazy when he says that free college education is very much possible

I don't have the figure, but I heard the cost was much more than that. There are $1.3 trillion in student loans, which would mean 20 years worth, so I can't imagine it is only 63 billion. And our government sucks balls at cutting spending. The fact that we will never pay off our debt worries me. I don't know how we keep spending money we don't have. Different topic though. I think that if they subsidized tuition a bit more, and if they subsidized student loans better that would be helpful. But I also think our government spends too much money. Honestly, I feel if they want to add a budget item in, they need to first make the cuts, not plans for the cuts, but actual cuts before they can put something that expensive in. Like, if we didn't have close to 19trillion in debt, we could pay for 4 times the amount of college tuition just on the savings of interest we are paying. by increasing the debt, think of all the things we keep missing just by paying that stupid mandatory .25trillion a year. Ugh. Sorry, I keep getting off topic. 

[talbs]

It sounds like a good idea, but I don't think college should be free. These institutions are businesses like every where else. The prices are consumer driven and if access to student loans wasn't so easy to begin with, tuition wouldn't be high as it is. Besides, we all know there is no such thing as "free." 

 

There are not enough jobs to accommodate all of these graduates, so what would flooding the market with even more accomplish? A college degree is virtually equivalent to a high school diploma now anyway, so handing them out to everyone will only further devalue what it stands for. Also as others have pointed out, the problem is that since college graduates are in abundance, virtually every job requires that it's applicants have one, even when it's completely unnecessary. You end up spending four years for a degree that in reality you may not have even needed if you could have just found a job that matched your skill set.

[Frizzle]

Could just slash the military budget in half.

[talbs]

Could just slash the military budget in half.

 

I am with you there, but this country, especially the Republicans, love having the most powerful military in the world. That's all well and good, but it would definitely be interesting to see how things would be if half of that money was allocated elsewhere.

[Kaddict]

I'm down for cutting the military budget, but we can't cut it in half. Much of the budget goes to pension. Maybe we should have fewer people hired into the armed services. We should have less of a presence in other countries, but we can't cut the budget by much overnight. It would take a generation for us to be able to cut a substantial amount of money from that spot. Honestly, by then, I am convinced our debt interest will be a much higher cost than the entirety of our defense budget. I absolutely agree with Talbs that the workforce is saturated already. TONS of college graduates (even with 'legitimate' degrees) can't find jobs after college. How will having even more people go to college help? Even if it is free, the opportunity cost of wasting 4 years of your life is huge, if you didn't need college and could have been working the whole time anyway.

[Blanc]

Yes, of course. Education and health must be free to anyone, even not being so good.

[poofka]

I would say up to associates should be free since college education is mandatory now for most jobs. Bachelors should be heavily funded but most likely anything beyond that like masters, etc will probably still be paid for by you. 

[Frizzle]

Doesn't America have something like 5 naval aircraft super ships? I think the whole of Europe has one. Could flog a couple of them and raise a few billion. Make less missiles? Save another couple of billion etc

[Kaddict]

Doesn't America have something like 5 naval aircraft super ships? I think the whole of Europe has one. Could flog a couple of them and raise a few billion. Make less missiles? Save another couple of billion etc

I honestly don't believe america is spending that much money making missiles. That is was the cold war was for. We are pretty stocked. I am just pulling numbers frmo my butt which isn't good debate, but I imagine that what the US spends on building missiles/tanks/ships etc is a tiny fraction of the military budget, whereas the cost of this program would be close to half of the military budget. The US has 1.3trillion in student loans. We spend .5 trillion/year on military (again, the majority of which is salary/pension/insurance/etc). We do need to cut that, but I don't understand how people think we will pay for things when we already can't pay for the things we are doing. Our country has enough drowning programs. 

[HiMyNameIsNick]

 

There are not enough jobs to accommodate all of these graduates, so what would flooding the market with even more accomplish? 

 

 

That was selfish. VERY selfish.

[Guppie]

Limit how much universities can charge to an amount that the median income could afford, and then make it free to those who pass entrance exams (not everyone needs a degree). Raise the minimum wage and pay for it with income taxes.

 

If universities charge reasonable prices (like they did a generation ago), the government will be able to recoup the cost of subsidizing higher education through graduates' increased incomes via the aforementioned income tax.

[Frizzle]

I honestly don't believe america is spending that much money making missiles. That is was the cold war was for. We are pretty stocked. I am just pulling numbers frmo my butt which isn't good debate, but I imagine that what the US spends on building missiles/tanks/ships etc is a tiny fraction of the military budget, whereas the cost of this program would be close to half of the military budget. The US has 1.3trillion in student loans. We spend .5 trillion/year on military (again, the majority of which is salary/pension/insurance/etc). We do need to cut that, but I don't understand how people think we will pay for things when we already can't pay for the things we are doing. Our country has enough drowning programs.

http://www.mda.mil/g...f/histfunds.pdf

Literally billions just on missles alone. Besides you're comparing private companies which have a monopoly on student loans to a public government which can control fundings.

[Adam]

Could just slash the military budget in half.

I agree with reducing the military's budget, but absolutely not by half. When the sequestration went through, and 5,000 people from my branch were forced out, we had to bring our own toilet paper to work. This isn't a big deal, but it just goes to show you that the budget is wasted on unnecessary things. So many aircraft are impounded, and retired at Davis Monthan AFB in Arizona, which is also known as the "Boneyard". Each aircraft that is impounded could be sold for scrap metal, or to an allied nation for millions of dollars, but we just throw it away and let it rot. Millions of dollars are of course a drop in the bucket, but those millions could feed the needy, or go towards education. 

[talbs]

That was selfish. VERY selfish.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kaddict]

Limit how much universities can charge to an amount that the median income could afford, and then make it free to those who pass entrance exams (not everyone needs a degree). Raise the minimum wage and pay for it with income taxes.

 

If universities charge reasonable prices (like they did a generation ago), the government will be able to recoup the cost of subsidizing higher education through graduates' increased incomes via the aforementioned income tax.

I don't understand why people think that all colleges have to cost the same. People have a choice. If they want to go to a school where they have to go into debt, it is their prerogative, but they sure as hell have to pay for it. If they want one that wont cost them money (or as much money) thats fine. For example, I had lots of scholarship options to upper tier undergrad universities, could have attended an ivy (and paid through the nose) but I chose to stay in state, and go to a college where they paid my tuition, books and then wrote me a check for $11,000 every year. The scholarship was only slightly more than 20k/year, but it was still much more cost efficient than going to the other schools offering me 25-40k a year (because their tuition was stupid high). You never have to pay that much money for school.

[DregsandDregs]

I don't know what happened, but college is expensive nowadays... 

 

Ah, lots of the tax cuts from the past few decades has come from College subsidiaries.   Basically, blame the boomers.  Again.

 

There is a slight problem with cutting the military budget to fund schools: People join the military to get their college education funded.  Less people will join up if they don't need to.

 

As they say, one man's pork barrel is another man's job program.

[KittyNikki]

I would say up to associates should be free since college education is mandatory now for most jobs. Bachelors should be heavily funded but most likely anything beyond that like masters, etc will probably still be paid for by you. 

 

The problem with this is if everyone was able to get an Associates degree, then the companies would require a Bachelor, or Masters degree...

[Coops]

I don't understand why people think that all colleges have to cost the same. People have a choice. If they want to go to a school where they have to go into debt, it is their prerogative, but they sure as hell have to pay for it. If they want one that wont cost them money (or as much money) thats fine. For example, I had lots of scholarship options to upper tier undergrad universities, could have attended an ivy (and paid through the nose) but I chose to stay in state, and go to a college where they paid my tuition, books and then wrote me a check for $11,000 every year. The scholarship was only slightly more than 20k/year, but it was still much more cost efficient than going to the other schools offering me 25-40k a year (because their tuition was stupid high). You never have to pay that much money for school.

Actually, some people do. Take me for example -- I've been forced to move twice since my husband is in the military. Not being a resident in any state I live in, or having any contacts at a new university really cuts down your chances at getting specific types of scholarships. It eliminates me attending universities that award scholarships for graduating in-state, or for being a student for multiple years, etc. It also means I lose credits with each move and subsequent transfer. It means my previous grades mean shit-all. I tried getting the military spousal assistance for tuition, you know what they told me? No. Because I wanted a bachelor degree. Like how dare I actually wanna get a four year degree?

I had a scholarship in the town I graduated in for freshmen year. But see, my dumbshit parents planned for my eldest sister (and no one else) to go to college. But she dropped out. And my scholarship, for my banging SAT score only covered half my tuition cost, that's in-state, by the way, at a low level shit university. The rest, I paid for by working full-time at Walmart, while doing chemo and school full-time. I didn't get a dime of government assistance because my parents "made too much" (even though they were, at that time, on the lower end of middle class).

When I moved to Alaska, it was great. I managed to get three years of my degree done with only 12k of debt. I didn't get scholarships because well, there aren't really many unless you're native or you graduated in-state. But then we got relocated to VA. Now my tuition is 3x what it was in Alaska at a public, state funded university (not one of the good ones either). My new university is 40 minutes away (that was the closest one with the program I needed) and it's 4 thousand+ for 12 credits of lower-level courses. And because we're just barely over the line to qualify for Pell Grants, I may not be able to finish school. I sure as fuck can't work. I just had brain surgery. Even if I could, it would be damn hard to find a job with a wage to afford 4k per semester.

I'm not saying it should be free. But it should not be this goddamn hard. There are circumstances, believe it or not, that make getting scholarships very challenging or that make school very inaccessible. And the government is making fucking bank off my desperation and the desperation of people like me, who just want so dearly to change their lives, or fulfill themselves through their passions (mine happens to be science, I feel bad for you artists and musicians out there). 

[testing321123]

Currently in university/college, have a study debt of approximately $20,000...
One side of me wish that it would be free, so i wouldn't be so burdened by the debt.

 

The other side of me wishes it wouldn't be free, else the country's min. education would go up again.

Not that it's bad generally speaking, but the job market is so competitive right now. If the min. education goes up again, it'll be even harder to get a proper job.
And the next "tier" of attaining a good job, would probably require you to get a Masters :\

 

It's a never-ending chase. Most of us go into college to get a degree, so that we can get a better job. (Since we're above average compared to others)

But if more people get into college and get a degree, having a degree becomes the norm. You wouldn't stand out from having a degree, job market becomes even more competitive...

 

So...
Yes and No.

Yes, for lesser burden

No, so the job market would not be even more competitive.

[Kaddict]

Actually, some people do. Take me for example -- I've been forced to move twice since my husband is in the military. Not being a resident in any state I live in, or having any contacts at a new university really cuts down your chances at getting specific types of scholarships. It eliminates me attending universities that award scholarships for graduating in-state, or for being a student for multiple years, etc. It also means I lose credits with each move and subsequent transfer. It means my previous grades mean shit-all. I tried getting the military spousal assistance for tuition, you know what they told me? No. Because I wanted a bachelor degree. Like how dare I actually wanna get a four year degree?

I had a scholarship in the town I graduated in for freshmen year. But see, my dumbshit parents planned for my eldest sister (and no one else) to go to college. But she dropped out. And my scholarship, for my banging SAT score only covered half my tuition cost, that's in-state, by the way, at a low level shit university. The rest, I paid for by working full-time at Walmart, while doing chemo and school full-time. I didn't get a dime of government assistance because my parents "made too much" (even though they were, at that time, on the lower end of middle class).

When I moved to Alaska, it was great. I managed to get three years of my degree done with only 12k of debt. I didn't get scholarships because well, there aren't really many unless you're native or you graduated in-state. But then we got relocated to VA. Now my tuition is 3x what it was in Alaska at a public, state funded university (not one of the good ones either). My new university is 40 minutes away (that was the closest one with the program I needed) and it's 4 thousand+ for 12 credits of lower-level courses. And because we're just barely over the line to qualify for Pell Grants, I may not be able to finish school. I sure as fuck can't work. I just had brain surgery. Even if I could, it would be damn hard to find a job with a wage to afford 4k per semester.

I'm not saying it should be free. But it should not be this goddamn hard. There are circumstances, believe it or not, that make getting scholarships very challenging or that make school very inaccessible. And the government is making fucking bank off my desperation and the desperation of people like me, who just want so dearly to change their lives, or fulfill themselves through their passions (mine happens to be science, I feel bad for you artists and musicians out there). 

That is a rough set of circumstances to say the least, things I hope on no one. I do think that the way the state should help is by providing more subsidized loans (where you don't have to make payments and no interest accrues until you graduate). I feel that way it relieves burdens of students, but isn't going to cost the country so much stupid money. They don't even have to worry about it until they are able to work full-time (if they can find a job in the already saturated market that is). Also, I think people (not everyone, just many) tend to take their education for granted when they don't pay for it.

[Bone]

Currently in university/college, have a study debt of approximately $20,000...
One side of me wish that it would be free, so i wouldn't be so burdened by the debt.

The other side of me wishes it wouldn't be free, else the country's min. education would go up again.
Not that it's bad generally speaking, but the job market is so competitive right now. If the min. education goes up again, it'll be even harder to get a proper job.
And the next "tier" of attaining a good job, would probably require you to get a Masters :\

It's a never-ending chase. Most of us go into college to get a degree, so that we can get a better job. (Since we're above average compared to others)
But if more people get into college and get a degree, having a degree becomes the norm. You wouldn't stand out from having a degree, job market becomes even more competitive...

So...
Yes and No.
Yes, for lesser burden
No, so the job market would not be even more competitive.

That's horribly selfish.

As a person who ended up with more than $100,000 in debt after receiving more than $25,000/year in scholarships, yes I think college should be free. It's a must for a just and equitable society.

There are universities I probably would have been accepted to, and would have loved to attend, that were out of the question to even apply to because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford them. I would consider going to grad school or joining the Peace Corps or doing something other than full-time work, but that won't be an option for me for at least ten years because of my debt burden.

All this for my economically illiterate 17-year-old self wanting to leave my hometown (I probably would have killed myself by now if I didn't) and to get a quality education. If that's not fucking depressing I'm not sure what is.

[Romy]

Why has the cost of higher education, even adjusted for inflation, been going stratespherically up?

Because public universities realized that government funding is not enough to keep themselves running.

The government has opted to gut higher education instead of increasing the level of funding it needs. So who pays the difference? We do.

[Padme]

That's horribly selfish.

As a person who ended up with more than $100,000 in debt after receiving more than $25,000/year in scholarships, yes I think college should be free. It's a must for a just and equitable society.

There are universities I probably would have been accepted to, and would have loved to attend, that were out of the question to even apply to because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford them. I would consider going to grad school or joining the Peace Corps or doing something other than full-time work, but that won't be an option for me for at least ten years because of my debt burden.

All this for my economically illiterate 17-year-old self wanting to leave my hometown (I probably would have killed myself by now if I didn't) and to get a quality education. If that's not fucking depressing I'm not sure what is.

 

Isn't joining the Peace Corps supposed to help get into grad school?

Maybe I read about it wrong.

 

We don't have it here but I wish we did I'd join in a heartbeat. 

 

I've heavily considered joining the Armed Forces here to get lower tuition but then I have to learn to shoot a gun which terrifies me. 

 

My grandparents have always reinforced that if/when I graduate they'll pay off my student loans but I never wanted to go to a school that was super expensive or one that I had to move for because they'd take that cost on themselves.

I was accepted into a few schools in the US and two in Australia. I applied because I didn't realize just how expensive it would actually be.

The Australian schools offered really cool scholarships because of my grades and international status but it would still be WAY more expensive than staying where I am. 

As for going to the US, to go to any of the schools I looked at well I could get a full undergraduate degree, masters and PH.d for the cost of a year at one of these schools. Some of them charging well over 100k and that's before you even want to feed yourself.

What a joke. Especially when I see some of the stuff schools spend money on that is just so unnecessary when you know students are suffering to even live and study. 

[Ali]

Useful degrees, yes. People should be encouraged to be doctors, scientists, engineers etc. at universities with a teaching quality that will set them up for a decent career.

 

Nobody should have contributed to me dicking about playing violin for 4 years. I'm an entirely useless member of society.

 

I quite like the way UK student loans work. Tuition gets paid directly to the uni, you get a "maintenance loan" to your bank account on a termly basis, you start paying it back as a percentage of your salary once you earn above a certain amount. If you haven't paid it back after a certain amount of time (25 years?), the remainder of your debt is written off. Economically, it's not that sound as plenty of people won't finish paying it back but it does afford basically everyone the opportunity to go to whatever university they want.

[Padme]

Useful degrees, yes. People should be encouraged to be doctors, scientists, engineers etc. 

 

Nobody should have contributed to me dicking about playing violin for 4 years. I'm an entirely useless member of society.

 

I quite like the way UK student loans work. Tuition gets paid directly to the uni, you get a "maintenance loan" to your bank account on a termly basis, you start paying it back as a percentage of your salary once you earn above a certain amount. If you haven't paid it back after a certain amount of time (25 years?), the remainder of your debt is written off. Economically, it's not that sound as plenty of people won't finish paying it back but it does afford basically everyone the opportunity to go to whatever university they want.

 

So do you pay off just the maintenance loan part? Sorry I kind of don't follow xP

 

Our student loans get paid directly to the school also, most of the time. Mine always have been and the first year I didn't know that so I paid the school twice and thought I was gonna be SO poor and starve the first term of uni. lmfao.