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Should College be Free?


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#26 Kaddict

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:50 PM

So, you're also saying students don't have to get a better education?

What is better with the education at an institution that costs 50k/year from one that costs 10k/year? If you think the amount of learning that happens in college is proportional to the amount that you pay, than having free college would leave us all stupid.



#27 savethekings

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:52 PM

How is learning a cello not possible through the internet? I learned guitar through the internet. And piano. I am not playing rachmaninov, but I don't put much effort into it. 



#28 ortin

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:55 PM

What is better with the education at an institution that costs 50k/year from one that costs 10k/year? If you think the amount of learning that happens in college is proportional to the amount that you pay, than having free college would leave us all stupid.

I'm guessing the Stanford Medical School (50k a year) has better facilities, tools, teachers, etc. etc. basically everything than something like the University of New Mexico's medical school (16k a year). Just a hunch :p

 

But again, this is also a very case by case situation. Sometimes, more expensive schools, especially for profit colleges, are actually worse than the 10k a year schools. 



#29 Kaddict

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:56 PM

 

That is why I said if education is your goal. Not if a degree is your goal.

 

How many classes in college did you take that were actually applicable and useful for a career? Very few. I actually think the internet is a much more efficient way of learning, again if learning (not a degree) is your goal. Like Frizzle said, have an educated society is good. Universities aren't the only (or, even the best) way to do that.

Yeah, honestly in undergrad, there were only a handful of classes that actually helped me with my future career (medicine). And I was taking very heavily biology/chemistry stuff. Some careers have more applicable classes, but still everyone has to take tons of garbage classes that don't really help them in life at all. Maybe they became more 'educated' but like you said, they can get that from anything. Online/books whatever.

 

 

EDIT: Actually, my school has newer and nicer facilities than Stanford. Our tuition is 40% what theirs is. With schools like Stanford, you are paying a lot for the name more than facilities and stuff. My friends and I have toured all the ivy med schools and were actually really underwhelmed with them. That is why I decided to stay in my hometown (nicer facilities plus WAY cheaper). But I realize that that isn't always the case. ie. Universities tend to have better facilities than 2-4 year community colleges etc.


Edited by Kaddict, 12 November 2015 - 09:59 PM.


#30 ortin

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 09:57 PM

How is learning a cello not possible through the internet? I learned guitar through the internet. And piano. I am not playing rachmaninov, but I don't put much effort into it. 

Well, I spent the past 8 years learning the cello through an actual teacher and putting in many hours of work into practicing every day, and I'm nowhere near being at the professional level. It's just a hunch of mine that there's no way some average run of the mill guy can become a professional cellist by watching some online videos. Classical music is one of the most training-wise demanding professions (and also has some of the least returns monetarily lol).



#31 Kaddict

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:02 PM

Well, I spent the past 8 years learning the cello through an actual teacher and putting in many hours of work into practicing every day, and I'm nowhere near being at the professional level. It's just a hunch of mine that there's no way some average run of the mill guy can become a professional cellist by watching some online videos. Classical music is one of the most training-wise demanding professions (and also has some of the least returns monetarily lol).

ha. My friend in high school grew up wanting to be an engineer. His senior year of high school (or his freshman year of college) he told his mom he wanted to be a music teacher. She cried. Not in a good way. Ha. I always feel bad for how little (real) musicians make. 



#32 ortin

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:16 PM

Also, it would only take about $62.9 billion per year to make college free. I'm saying it's only $62.9 billion, because in comparison the U.S. spent $3.8 trillion this year. Free college education would increase the budget by only 1.6%, which can easily be met by cutting programs a tiny bit, raising taxes a bit, or outright increasing the federal expenditures, or some combination of those. 

 

TL;DR Bernie Sanders isn't actually crazy when he says that free college education is very much possible



#33 Kaddict

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:25 PM

Also, it would only take about $62.9 billion per year to make college free. I'm saying it's only $62.9 billion, because in comparison the U.S. spent $3.8 trillion this year. Free college education would increase the budget by only 1.6%, which can easily be met by cutting programs a tiny bit, raising taxes a bit, or outright increasing the federal expenditures, or some combination of those. 

 

TL;DR Bernie Sanders isn't actually crazy when he says that free college education is very much possible

I don't have the figure, but I heard the cost was much more than that. There are $1.3 trillion in student loans, which would mean 20 years worth, so I can't imagine it is only 63 billion. And our government sucks balls at cutting spending. The fact that we will never pay off our debt worries me. I don't know how we keep spending money we don't have. Different topic though. I think that if they subsidized tuition a bit more, and if they subsidized student loans better that would be helpful. But I also think our government spends too much money. Honestly, I feel if they want to add a budget item in, they need to first make the cuts, not plans for the cuts, but actual cuts before they can put something that expensive in. Like, if we didn't have close to 19trillion in debt, we could pay for 4 times the amount of college tuition just on the savings of interest we are paying. by increasing the debt, think of all the things we keep missing just by paying that stupid mandatory .25trillion a year. Ugh. Sorry, I keep getting off topic. 



#34 talbs

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 05:22 AM

It sounds like a good idea, but I don't think college should be free. These institutions are businesses like every where else. The prices are consumer driven and if access to student loans wasn't so easy to begin with, tuition wouldn't be high as it is. Besides, we all know there is no such thing as "free." 

 

There are not enough jobs to accommodate all of these graduates, so what would flooding the market with even more accomplish? A college degree is virtually equivalent to a high school diploma now anyway, so handing them out to everyone will only further devalue what it stands for. Also as others have pointed out, the problem is that since college graduates are in abundance, virtually every job requires that it's applicants have one, even when it's completely unnecessary. You end up spending four years for a degree that in reality you may not have even needed if you could have just found a job that matched your skill set.



#35 Frizzle

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 08:48 AM

Could just slash the military budget in half.

#36 talbs

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 09:01 AM

Could just slash the military budget in half.

 

I am with you there, but this country, especially the Republicans, love having the most powerful military in the world. That's all well and good, but it would definitely be interesting to see how things would be if half of that money was allocated elsewhere.



#37 Kaddict

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 09:56 AM

I'm down for cutting the military budget, but we can't cut it in half. Much of the budget goes to pension. Maybe we should have fewer people hired into the armed services. We should have less of a presence in other countries, but we can't cut the budget by much overnight. It would take a generation for us to be able to cut a substantial amount of money from that spot. Honestly, by then, I am convinced our debt interest will be a much higher cost than the entirety of our defense budget. I absolutely agree with Talbs that the workforce is saturated already. TONS of college graduates (even with 'legitimate' degrees) can't find jobs after college. How will having even more people go to college help? Even if it is free, the opportunity cost of wasting 4 years of your life is huge, if you didn't need college and could have been working the whole time anyway.



#38 Umi

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 10:05 AM

Yes, of course. Education and health must be free to anyone, even not being so good.

#39 poofka

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 10:26 AM

I would say up to associates should be free since college education is mandatory now for most jobs. Bachelors should be heavily funded but most likely anything beyond that like masters, etc will probably still be paid for by you. 



#40 Frizzle

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 11:01 AM

Doesn't America have something like 5 naval aircraft super ships? I think the whole of Europe has one. Could flog a couple of them and raise a few billion. Make less missiles? Save another couple of billion etc

#41 Kaddict

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

Doesn't America have something like 5 naval aircraft super ships? I think the whole of Europe has one. Could flog a couple of them and raise a few billion. Make less missiles? Save another couple of billion etc

I honestly don't believe america is spending that much money making missiles. That is was the cold war was for. We are pretty stocked. I am just pulling numbers frmo my butt which isn't good debate, but I imagine that what the US spends on building missiles/tanks/ships etc is a tiny fraction of the military budget, whereas the cost of this program would be close to half of the military budget. The US has 1.3trillion in student loans. We spend .5 trillion/year on military (again, the majority of which is salary/pension/insurance/etc). We do need to cut that, but I don't understand how people think we will pay for things when we already can't pay for the things we are doing. Our country has enough drowning programs. 



#42 HiMyNameIsNick

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 11:51 AM

 

There are not enough jobs to accommodate all of these graduates, so what would flooding the market with even more accomplish? 

 

 

That was selfish. VERY selfish.



#43 Guppie

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 11:53 AM

Limit how much universities can charge to an amount that the median income could afford, and then make it free to those who pass entrance exams (not everyone needs a degree). Raise the minimum wage and pay for it with income taxes.

 

If universities charge reasonable prices (like they did a generation ago), the government will be able to recoup the cost of subsidizing higher education through graduates' increased incomes via the aforementioned income tax.



#44 Frizzle

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 12:10 PM

I honestly don't believe america is spending that much money making missiles. That is was the cold war was for. We are pretty stocked. I am just pulling numbers frmo my butt which isn't good debate, but I imagine that what the US spends on building missiles/tanks/ships etc is a tiny fraction of the military budget, whereas the cost of this program would be close to half of the military budget. The US has 1.3trillion in student loans. We spend .5 trillion/year on military (again, the majority of which is salary/pension/insurance/etc). We do need to cut that, but I don't understand how people think we will pay for things when we already can't pay for the things we are doing. Our country has enough drowning programs.


http://www.mda.mil/g...f/histfunds.pdf

Literally billions just on missles alone. Besides you're comparing private companies which have a monopoly on student loans to a public government which can control fundings.

#45 ortin

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 03:58 PM

Could just slash the military budget in half.

Or by just 10% if you want to provide the $62.9 billion needed to make public college education free.



#46 Adam

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 04:11 PM

Could just slash the military budget in half.

I agree with reducing the military's budget, but absolutely not by half. When the sequestration went through, and 5,000 people from my branch were forced out, we had to bring our own toilet paper to work. This isn't a big deal, but it just goes to show you that the budget is wasted on unnecessary things. So many aircraft are impounded, and retired at Davis Monthan AFB in Arizona, which is also known as the "Boneyard". Each aircraft that is impounded could be sold for scrap metal, or to an allied nation for millions of dollars, but we just throw it away and let it rot. Millions of dollars are of course a drop in the bucket, but those millions could feed the needy, or go towards education. 



#47 talbs

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 06:23 PM

That was selfish. VERY selfish.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯



#48 Kaddict

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 10:29 PM

Limit how much universities can charge to an amount that the median income could afford, and then make it free to those who pass entrance exams (not everyone needs a degree). Raise the minimum wage and pay for it with income taxes.

 

If universities charge reasonable prices (like they did a generation ago), the government will be able to recoup the cost of subsidizing higher education through graduates' increased incomes via the aforementioned income tax.

I don't understand why people think that all colleges have to cost the same. People have a choice. If they want to go to a school where they have to go into debt, it is their prerogative, but they sure as hell have to pay for it. If they want one that wont cost them money (or as much money) thats fine. For example, I had lots of scholarship options to upper tier undergrad universities, could have attended an ivy (and paid through the nose) but I chose to stay in state, and go to a college where they paid my tuition, books and then wrote me a check for $11,000 every year. The scholarship was only slightly more than 20k/year, but it was still much more cost efficient than going to the other schools offering me 25-40k a year (because their tuition was stupid high). You never have to pay that much money for school.



#49 DregsandDregs

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 04:12 PM

I don't know what happened, but college is expensive nowadays... 

 

Ah, lots of the tax cuts from the past few decades has come from College subsidiaries.   Basically, blame the boomers.  Again.

 

There is a slight problem with cutting the military budget to fund schools: People join the military to get their college education funded.  Less people will join up if they don't need to.

 

As they say, one man's pork barrel is another man's job program.



#50 KittyNikki

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 10:13 PM

I would say up to associates should be free since college education is mandatory now for most jobs. Bachelors should be heavily funded but most likely anything beyond that like masters, etc will probably still be paid for by you. 

 

The problem with this is if everyone was able to get an Associates degree, then the companies would require a Bachelor, or Masters degree...




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