54 replies to this topic

[Adam]

Making someone feel bad for an inherent quality, which they have no control over, is pointless. Making someone acknowledge their privilege, so they may be aware and so they can speak out against racism or sexism or whatever, has more value to society, in my opinion. 

Holy fuck, thank you! In the last ~2 years there has been insurmountable pressure to be ashamed of being white. I feel like these race-baiters want 'white' people to feel bad about being 'white', and place a blanket over all of us stating how we are racist not matter what we do.

 

I'm deeply saddened to read that someone sees a group of white people come together, for academic reasons (whatever they might be), only to be compared to such a hateful organization as the KKK. Shame on you. 

 

The discussion has obviously been centered on U.S. schools so far, so please don't be pedantic. White people do not face discrimination in the United States.

By saying that white people can't have a white student union, you are denying white people their right to congregate -- which in itself is discriminatory. The Bill of Rights is there for ALL people no matter what race, creed, or what version of a fucking attack helicopter you self-identify as.

 

This great man would be ashamed at the people who are fighting the war on race -- no matter what front you're struggling on. End ALL racism, love each other, and be equal.

[Coops]

Holy fuck, thank you! In the last ~2 years there has been insurmountable pressure to be ashamed of being white. I feel like these race-baiters want 'white' people to feel bad about being 'white', and place a blanket over all of us stating how we are racist not matter what we do. I'm deeply saddened to read that someone sees a group of white people come together, for academic reasons (whatever they might be), only to be compared to such a hateful organization as the KKK. Shame on you. 

 

I just think guilting people has no societal function. It doesn't bring us closer together, it doesn't erase systematic oppression, it just breeds resentment and fear or distrust. You can admit to being privileged without being forced to feel ashamed. I think it's important to understand that everyone experiences things different. For example, even in the disabled community, no two people face the same exact challenges. I am going to stop talking about it now because I've said what I feel needed to be said. But I'm glad you could identify with it @Adam. c:

[Bone]

Holy fuck, thank you! In the last ~2 years there has been insurmountable pressure to be ashamed of being white. I feel like these race-baiters want 'white' people to feel bad about being 'white', and place a blanket over all of us stating how we are racist not matter what we do. I'm deeply saddened to read that someone sees a group of white people come together, for academic reasons (whatever they might be), only to be compared to such a hateful organization as the KKK. Shame on you. 

 

By saying that white people can't have a white student union, you are denying white people their right to congregate -- which in itself is discriminatory. The Bill of Rights is there for ALL people no matter what race, creed, or what version of a fucking attack helicopter you self-identify as.

 

 

This great man would be ashamed at the people who are fighting the war on race -- no matter what front you're struggling on. End ALL racism, love each other, and be equal.

 

Holy straw man arguments.

 

How is a student group exclusively for white people for "academic reasons"? Anyways, no one is saying that people can't have a white student union, we're saying that it's distasteful and smacks of racism. Reminds me of when people cry "freedom of speech!!!1" whenever their hate speech is challenged. You have a freedom of speech and association, but you aren't free of the consequences.

 

There is no such thing is reverse racism, since racism is structural and has always favored white people over people of color. One could argue that white people face discrimination based on their ethnicity, but even if we do it's trivial compared to the massive challenges society places on people of color. Maybe you should stop getting over-defensive and interpreting discussions of white privilege as personal attacks, and try to put the so-called discrimination you face (like hypothetically not being able to form a white students union) into perspective. People of color have to actively fight to retain their hard earned rights, rights you and I grew up taking for granted.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. was concerned with the structural racism and oppression that black communities faced (and still face today), so I'm not sure what the fuck you're trying to say on that front. Are you trying to say he would have supported white student unions ?  ?                       ?

[Frizzle]

The discussion has obviously been centered on U.S. schools so far, so please don't be pedantic. White people do not face discrimination in the United States.

So no individual has faced discrimination based on their whiteness?

Also white privilege doesn't exist, there isn't such a thing as "reverse racism" either. Here's a nice little video explaining why

https://youtube.com/...h?v=o6gTggsWBm0

Martin Luther King Jr. was concerned with the structural racism and oppression that black communities faced (and still face today), so I'm not sure what the fuck you're trying to say on that front. Are you trying to say he would have supported white student unions ? ? ?

Yes, yes he would.

"Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding. We must come to see that the end we seek is a society at peace with itself, a society that can live with its conscience. And that will be a day not of the white man, not of the black man. That will be the day of man as man."

[Kaddict]

Yup, I come from Irish heritage. They had a real good life 100 years ago here in the states. No one ever judged them at all. And how did Adam employ a straw man? You equated all WSUs to the KKK, and Adam just was talking to that point. And of course MLK would be a proponent of WSUs. Why? BECAUSE HE FOUGHT FOR F****** EQUALITY!

[Bone]

Yup, I come from Irish heritage. They had a real good life 100 years ago here in the states. No one ever judged them at all. And how did Adam employ a straw man? You equated all WSUs to the KKK, and Adam just was talking to that point. And of course MLK would be a proponent of WSUs. Why? BECAUSE HE FOUGHT FOR F****** EQUALITY!

Irish people stopped facing discrimination when they started to be considered white. Irish-Americans do not have to deal with continued discrimination today. Please don't follow in Frizzle's footsteps and become a shameless pedant.

Equality requires the elimination of institutional racism, and so long as total equality hasn't been reached, a WSU will be a symbol of oppression and racism. Still waiting on an example of a whites-only organization that isn't deeply rooted in racism. Anyone can take an MLK quote out of context but that's not a valid argument for your case.

[Frizzle]

"Irish people stopped facing discrimination when they started to be considered white".

Fuck me, I know you were a bigot, but I didn't realise how ignorant you were as well. Perhaps you should read a history book before spouting such incredibly nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia...ki/The_Troubles

https://en.wikipedia...hts_Association

https://en.wikipedia...ation_Demetrius

https://en.wikipedia...orthern_Ireland

https://en.wikipedia...oubles_in_Derry

https://en.wikipedia...y_Sunday_(1972)

https://en.wikipedia...onfederate_Wars


But you'll probably completely ignore people's background and issues because they're white and not American ( ie racism)
So..

https://en.wikipedia...e_United_States

https://en.wikipedia...tz_v._Bollinger

https://en.wikipedia...er_v._Bollinger

http://booksandjourn...57181612x642358

http://asianam.org/h...ssion-officers/

http://mjperry.blogs...s-from.html?m=1

https://www.aamc.org...-ethnicity.html

http://www.nationalr...bert-verbruggen

http://www.theatlant...-action/263122/

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

https://supreme.just...5/200/case.html

http://www.insightin...om/past-issues/

https://en.wikipedia...lied_Philosophy

Examples of white action groups that aren't discriminatory:

https://en.wikipedia...vative_Citizens

https://en.wikipedia...olicy_Institute

https://en.wikipedia...n_organization)

https://en.wikipedia...ental_Quarterly

[Bone]

"Irish people stopped facing discrimination when they started to be considered white".

Fuck me, I know you were a bigot, but I didn't realise how ignorant you were as well. Perhaps you should read a history book before spouting such incredibly nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia...ki/The_Troubles

https://en.wikipedia...hts_Association

https://en.wikipedia...ation_Demetrius

https://en.wikipedia...orthern_Ireland

https://en.wikipedia...oubles_in_Derry

https://en.wikipedia...y_Sunday_(1972)

https://en.wikipedia...onfederate_Wars


But you'll probably completely ignore people's background and issues because they're white and not American ( ie racism)
So..

https://en.wikipedia...e_United_States

https://en.wikipedia...tz_v._Bollinger

https://en.wikipedia...er_v._Bollinger

http://booksandjourn...57181612x642358

http://asianam.org/h...ssion-officers/

http://mjperry.blogs...s-from.html?m=1

https://www.aamc.org...-ethnicity.html

http://www.nationalr...bert-verbruggen

http://www.theatlant...-action/263122/

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

https://supreme.just...5/200/case.html

http://www.insightin...om/past-issues/

https://en.wikipedia...lied_Philosophy

Examples of white action groups that aren't discriminatory:

https://en.wikipedia...vative_Citizens

https://en.wikipedia...olicy_Institute

https://en.wikipedia...n_organization)

https://en.wikipedia...ental_Quarterly

 

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE UNITED STATES. I said that just a few posts ago. Please stop deliberately misinterpreting my posts and trying to put words into my mouth.

 

And those "white action groups" are literally white nationalist/supremacist organizations and SLPC-designated hate groups. I'm not going to continue this discussion if you think a group that "opposes all efforts to mix the races of mankind" is not racist.

[Frizzle]

So people with Irish heritage in the United States can't feel the backlash of centuries of discrimination.

If we apply that logic elsewhere, there are no ramifications of slavery in the US.

Funny thing is, I actually agree with you on certain points. There is systematic discrimination which adversely affects BME individuals, most white right groups are based on racial superiority and the discrimination faced by BME individuals is usually of a greater standard than white people.

The fact you purposely ignore white rights and ignore the discrimination of white people ( you literally ignored my previous post where the vast majority of the links are US bases) hilights your bigotry and your agenda.
That's my issue, you fail to use rational and empirical evidence to support your point and it's obvious your bias is so obviously drenched in your posts it's impossible to discuss with such bigotry and racism.

[Romy]

Reverse Racism is still Racism.

[Adam]

Why can't we all just be friends?

Bigots.

[Mishelle]

Most colleges are predominantly white and cater to the needs of white people. If you look at social studies done most white people are friends and associate with other white people. It's not the same for minority students. I helped run the BSU at my school and we accepted students of all races. We had white members in the BSU and the main focus of our club was to be a social hub for black students because the campus is 60% white and most of the white students hung out around each other. I spent the the entirety of my time in college being the only black person in class or one of a handful which made it really awkward when we spoke about race issues and the kids looked to me to be the voice of all Black people because I was the only one there. It was nice having a place to go where I wasn't the only Black face In the room and didn't have to deal with microaggressions and thinly veiled racism from my peers. It was nice being able to make friends too because I was from LA and most of the students there commuted from nearby cities and already had their own social circles whereas I was starting from scratch. The Greek system was mostly rich and white, and the university has been open for 26 years now and we're just getting on our way to getting our first historically Black fraternity on campus. Unless it's an HBCU or something white kids rarely face that kind of representation issue on campus.

Holy straw man arguments.

How is a student group exclusively for white people for "academic reasons"? Anyways, no one is saying that people can't have a white student union, we're saying that it's distasteful and smacks of racism. Reminds me of when people cry "freedom of speech!!!1" whenever their hate speech is challenged. You have a freedom of speech and association, but you aren't free of the consequences.

There is no such thing is reverse racism, since racism is structural and has always favored white people over people of color. One could argue that white people face discrimination based on their ethnicity, but even if we do it's trivial compared to the massive challenges society places on people of color. Maybe you should stop getting over-defensive and interpreting discussions of white privilege as personal attacks, and try to put the so-called discrimination you face (like hypothetically not being able to form a white students union) into perspective. People of color have to actively fight to retain their hard earned rights, rights you and I grew up taking for granted.

Martin Luther King Jr. was concerned with the structural racism and oppression that black communities faced (and still face today), so I'm not sure what the fuck you're trying to say on that front. Are you trying to say he would have supported white student unions ? ? ?

I wouldn't equate a WSU to the KKK but moreso those people who complain about not having a White history month every fucking February or complaining there's no WET instead of just being happy they live in a society where it's not necessary because rarely is there lack of representation for white people in America.

Reverse Racism is still Racism.

There's no such thing as reverse racism.

Edited by Mishelle, 30 November 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[DonValentino]

Apparently white people and men have never face discrimination before. How strange. Guess we should let Serbians/Albanians know that when their families were massacred that it wasn't a big deal. Guess we should let the South Africans being forced out of their homes know that their plight isn't a big deal because a minority somewhere in the US decided on it.

Rights, discrimination and heritage isn't a pissing contest.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone saying that if a group of people is facing massacre or eviction from their homes that they wouldn't be allowed to stand together to try and solve the issue. 

But how are the plights of white people in America even close to those of people being massacred? That's where I'm failing to see the point you were trying to make. White people face nothing close to this, that's why white students in college don't need to have their own group, they have nothing in the system preventing them from achieving success. 

 

Edit: Didn't realize there was a whole second page to this discussion lol

Edited by DonValentino, 30 November 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[Frizzle]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone saying that if a group of people is facing massacre or eviction from their homes that they wouldn't be allowed to stand together to try and solve the issue.
But how are the plights of white people in America even close to those of people being massacred? That's where I'm failing to see the point you were trying to make. White people face nothing close to this, that's why white students in college don't need to have their own group, they have nothing in the system preventing them from achieving success.

Edit: Didn't realize there was a whole second page to this discussion lol

Because discrimination, bigotry and racism isn't a pissing contest.

[Mishelle]

So what would even be the topic of discussion in a white student union? They're fully represented on most campuses. Their history and culture is represented in course curriculum. There isn't a history of discrimitation against white people on college campuses, in fact it's the complete opposite. So what's the purpose? I'm confused.

Edited by Mishelle, 04 December 2015 - 03:18 PM.

[NapisaurusRex]

So what would even be the topic of discussion in a white student union? They're fully represented on most campuses. Their history and culture is represented in course curriculum. There isn't a history of discrimitation against white people on college campuses, in fact it's the complete opposite. So what's the purpose? I'm confused.

Pumpkin spice lattes, hot girls in yoga pants, camping/hiking, and 'reverse racism'.

[Romy]

There's no such thing as reverse racism.

Because?

[Adam]

I'm genuinely curious to know what microaggressions you receive on a daily basis, @Mishelle.

This is a very interesting, and unfortunate website to read.

http://www.microaggressions.com/

[DonValentino]

Pumpkin spice lattes, hot girls in yoga pants, camping/hiking, and 'reverse racism'.

Forget everything I said I want a WSU

[Frizzle]

Because?

Reverse racism is racism...

[Mishelle]

I'm genuinely curious to know what microaggressions you receive on a daily basis, @Mishelle.
This is a very interesting, and unfortunate website to read.
http://www.microaggressions.com/

"Your name is so pretty, is it African for something?"
"Oh wow you speak so well!"
"You're not really Black, you're just technically Black"
"but you don't talk Black"
"are you mixed? What about your parents?"
"But your hair is curly and not nappy, you have to be mixed with something" *proceeds to get uncomfortable when I bring up massive slave rape in American history*
"how do you say 'ask'?"
"You're from Inglewood? Isn't it dangerous there?"
"what part of LA are you from? Compton?"
"Oh wow you like The Clash/rolling stones/(Insert generic rock band that everyone knows about)? I didn't expect you to like this kind of music"
"OH MY GOD YOU JUST HAVE TO TEACH ME HOW TO TWERK!!!"
*During discussion about Ferguson* *Everyone awkwardly stays silent waiting for the only Black person in the room to say something*
"can I touch your hair? How do you get it like that?" (It grows out of my head this way...)
*says nigga* "oh I'm sorry I hope i didn't offend you, is it ok if I say nigga" (they're gonna say nigga either way)
*person mispronounces my name* *I correct them* *They keep mispronouncing my name for the rest of the fucking semester*

And when racism meets sexism

"I've never been with a black girl before"
"Hey chocolate"
"are you mixed with something? You're so pretty!" (You can't just be black and pretty you have to be mixed)
"Do you like white guys?"
"I love Black girls because they have big titties and big asses and that's what I like"

Edited by Mishelle, 05 December 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[Coops]

@Mishelle Wow. That is intense and icky. I'm sorry you've experienced those comments. Does that stuff make you uncomfortable? Do you call people out on it often? I'm genuinely curious and I don't wanna make assumptions, if you feel up to sharing more about your experiences.

[Adam]

@Mishelle JFC if anyone said shit like that to me I'd rage super hard.

[FelisNoctua]

Short story long, if a situation existed where whites were a minority and underrepresented in student leadership or were at a disadvantage because of their race, yes, a WSU would be warranted. To answer the question actually asked, a WSU is not inherently racist, just, pretty pointless (here).

 

@Mishelle I always hear about those types of microaggressions and get boggled by them. I think it's too ridiculous to be true that those things actually get said. Which is of course silly because I rail about the microaggressions women (myself included) deal with constantly. It's blind to think that sort of thing occurs over gender but not race. I know, from reading, that microaggressions and sexualization of females is actually much worse when targets at women of color. At my university we have both a Feminist Graduate Student Association and a Black Student Union, and National Council of Negro Women, Inc. (a sort of black female student union). 

 

Other Student unions we have: Asian, Jewish, Konbit Kreyol, Campus Crusade for Christ as the Christian student union, and the Catholic Newman Club. I'm not sure the Christian or Catholic groups are student unions, since they don't seem to have missions, and they might just be clubs.

 

Personally, I think white student unions would hypothetically have a place in a school where whites are in the minority of student leader representation. However, perhaps it's my privilege blinding me, but I don't know offhand of any schools that has that problem. As @DonValentino said, even in places where whites are the minority they do not tend to have a disadvantage (my commentary obviously extends only to US schools as I know nothing about education in other countries). Student Unions for other ethnicities, cultures, genders, sexualities, and religions, exist to make sure those groups have their rights protected at the same level as the WASPs. They're not always successful, and they don't always exist when needed.

[Mishelle]

@Mishelle Wow. That is intense and icky. I'm sorry you've experienced those comments. Does that stuff make you uncomfortable? Do you call people out on it often? I'm genuinely curious and I don't wanna make assumptions, if you feel up to sharing more about your experiences.

It really depends on how I feel that day. Sometimes it's so exhausting to jump into everything and explain to them why their comments aren't ok, especially the hair shit because that happens at least once a week. Sometimes I'll call them out, other times I'll just remove myself from the situation. When it happens in class I usually just ignored it because we often had a lot of group projects and I knew I just had to get through the semester and then never have to deal with them again, hopefully. But if anyone tries to take liberties with my body and touch my hair/my butt and make comments I let those bitches have it. But for the most part I deal with microaggressions with lots of snark and sarcasm. And often my friends will jump in too because they see it happening when they hang out with me. John and Willie are constantly telling people to stay out of my hair.

Edited by Mishelle, 05 December 2015 - 11:52 AM.