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RIP Alton Sterling


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#26 Karla

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 10:59 AM

Bc if he was shot in the arm (I don't know if the bullets went through to the abdomen or anything, all I know about the case is from the video), and it was limited to the arm, with immediate attention, he almost certainly would have lived. He could have told the lady to leave the car with her hands up if he was worried about retaliation and then he could have applied pressure to stop bleeding. Ugh.

 

There's a chance he was shot in an artery. If that's so, there was a slim chance he'd have been saved in time.



#27 Kaddict

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 07:21 PM

There's a chance he was shot in an artery. If that's so, there was a slim chance he'd have been saved in time.

If the officer applied pressure, even if it was a brachial artery, direct pressure, or even a crappy tourniquet would have saved his life if the officer reacted quickly. Though, if it hit his chest, there is nothing that could have been done. Anyway, I think if it was a brachial artery, the officer could probably be charged with manslaughter for letting the guy bleed out.



#28 Mishelle

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 08:52 PM

If the officer applied pressure, even if it was a brachial artery, direct pressure, or even a crappy tourniquet would have saved his life if the officer reacted quickly. Though, if it hit his chest, there is nothing that could have been done. Anyway, I think if it was a brachial artery, the officer could probably be charged with manslaughter for letting the guy bleed out.

 

I doubt it. The exact same thing happened to Tamir Rice. They immediately shot him and then stood over him as he bled out and died. Nothing happened to them for it.



#29 Kaddict

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 09:37 PM

I doubt it. The exact same thing happened to Tamir Rice. They immediately shot him and then stood over him as he bled out and died. Nothing happened to them for it.

I feel the Rice situation was different, because he was shot in the chest. Nothing you can do outside of a trauma center that will do much good with a bullet to the chest. Usually, and depending on where he was hit. But they should have at least made an effort, or pretending to care even a little would have gone a long way... Cops are trained to treat a fake gun like a real gun . But the joker cop in this story asked the man for his license  after the man told him he had a concealed carry. there was absolutely nothing else the man could have done differently/better.



#30 Mishelle

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:58 PM

I feel the Rice situation was different, because he was shot in the chest. Nothing you can do outside of a trauma center that will do much good with a bullet to the chest. Usually, and depending on where he was hit. But they should have at least made an effort, or pretending to care even a little would have gone a long way... Cops are trained to treat a fake gun like a real gun . But the joker cop in this story asked the man for his license  after the man told him he had a concealed carry. there was absolutely nothing else the man could have done differently/better.

 

They may be trained that way but they don't seem to be applying that training on everyone equally. Plenty of stories about people who point guns (both real and fake) and police and weren't shot on the spot.

 

 

I just think they if cops are so afraid that they'll immediately shoot anything, they really need to rethink their employment. Violent crime is at historic lows across the country. 62 police have died in the line of duty. 532-600 (I've heard varying numbers) have been killed by police. Last year was one of the safest years on record for police, and yet they still managed to kill 990 people. Maybe they should chill out a bit.



#31 Kaddict

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 09:26 PM

I agree. I have some acquaintances/friends who are cops that I imagine abuse their authority. The problem is that some of them (a small minority) will never amount to much, and the only role of leadership or authority or power they will attain is that of pushing people around. Having said that, I think the problem with the BLM is that they are inciting violence (Think Malcom X instead of MLK), which put the cops more on edge. So, the BLM movement is honestly causing cops that had no previous racial biases to become biased/frightened, and cops that already have the bias to have their bias confirmed and strengthened. So, in that sense, BLM is just causing more racism. So, the few violent BLM people to me are like the few violent cops. Screwing their cause and making the other side more frightened for their lives than they should be.



#32 Mishelle

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 10:01 PM

I agree. I have some acquaintances/friends who are cops that I imagine abuse their authority. The problem is that some of them (a small minority) will never amount to much, and the only role of leadership or authority or power they will attain is that of pushing people around. Having said that, I think the problem with the BLM is that they are inciting violence (Think Malcom X instead of MLK), which put the cops more on edge. So, the BLM movement is honestly causing cops that had no previous racial biases to become biased/frightened, and cops that already have the bias to have their bias confirmed and strengthened. So, in that sense, BLM is just causing more racism. So, the few violent BLM people to me are like the few violent cops. Screwing their cause and making the other side more frightened for their lives than they should be.

 

There have been hundreds of peaceful BLM protests across the entire country, I've attended them myself. It makes zero sense to ignore the hundreds peaceful protests and latch on to a  few cases of violence to demonize everybody. So it's ok for them to do that to us, but they don't want us to do the same to them when their own bad apples get exposed.



#33 MozzarellaSticks

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 10:12 PM

Part of the issue is that the police hierarchy STRONGLY discourages going against a superior. While most cops can be good, if the bad one is a higher rank than it's going to trickle down. Sure, there are fail safes to ensure that an officer can still refuse to comply with a senior ofdicer's orders if they find them unjust, but that officer would be ostracized by an organization that spans across the country. It's a hefty risk on their livelihood. So it really does take just one bad cop.

#34 cara

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 10:18 PM

There have been hundreds of peaceful BLM protests across the entire country, I've attended them myself. It makes zero sense to ignore the hundreds peaceful protests and latch on to a few cases of violence to demonize everybody. So it's ok for them to do that to us, but they don't want us to do the same to them when their own bad apples get exposed.

I completely agree with what you're saying regarding the majority of protestors being peaceful should outweigh those that are not. But, I find the hypocrisy a bit funny in the sense that I feel as though the Black Lives Matter movement itself demonizes all police officers.

When we were in LA we saw a huge group of protestors blasting that 'fuck the police' song, wearing shirts that say the same, and yelling profanities about police. They weren't saying 'fuck police officers that have killed innocents'. They were saying 'fuck the police' as a whole.

I think both sides have been, to a point, demonized by the other side and it is a huge problem. I know that there have been rallies made to promote peace between the two sides in the hopes of finding a mutual solution to the growing police brutality issue. And I totally feel like that is a lot more helpful than those that demonize either the BLM movement or every police officer.

I think it honestly comes back to the fact that the training for police officers is poor and the hiring process is biased. The fact that minorities are so painfully under represented, even in areas with huge minority populations, is ridiculous. Why was Chicago police force sued into hiring more minorities? There is a problem with prejudice within the police, of that I have no doubt, but instead of chanting 'fuck the police' I think chanting 'we demand minority representation in our local police department' is a lot more likely to result in change and less likely to incite violence.

#35 Kaddict

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:53 AM

I completely agree with what you're saying regarding the majority of protestors being peaceful should outweigh those that are not. But, I find the hypocrisy a bit funny in the sense that I feel as though the Black Lives Matter movement itself demonizes all police officers.

When we were in LA we saw a huge group of protestors blasting that 'fuck the police' song, wearing shirts that say the same, and yelling profanities about police. They weren't saying 'fuck police officers that have killed innocents'. They were saying 'fuck the police' as a whole.

I think both sides have been, to a point, demonized by the other side and it is a huge problem. I know that there have been rallies made to promote peace between the two sides in the hopes of finding a mutual solution to the growing police brutality issue. And I totally feel like that is a lot more helpful than those that demonize either the BLM movement or every police officer.

 

 

This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Fighting fire with fire just makes the blaze expand. 



#36 cara

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 02:00 PM

This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Fighting fire with fire just makes the blaze expand. 

 

Yup, I agree. But I think emotions (particularly fear and anger) cause both sides to add to the fire.



#37 Mishelle

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 02:27 PM

I completely agree with what you're saying regarding the majority of protestors being peaceful should outweigh those that are not. But, I find the hypocrisy a bit funny in the sense that I feel as though the Black Lives Matter movement itself demonizes all police officers.

When we were in LA we saw a huge group of protestors blasting that 'fuck the police' song, wearing shirts that say the same, and yelling profanities about police. They weren't saying 'fuck police officers that have killed innocents'. They were saying 'fuck the police' as a whole.

I think both sides have been, to a point, demonized by the other side and it is a huge problem. I know that there have been rallies made to promote peace between the two sides in the hopes of finding a mutual solution to the growing police brutality issue. And I totally feel like that is a lot more helpful than those that demonize either the BLM movement or every police officer.

I think it honestly comes back to the fact that the training for police officers is poor and the hiring process is biased. The fact that minorities are so painfully under represented, even in areas with huge minority populations, is ridiculous. Why was Chicago police force sued into hiring more minorities? There is a problem with prejudice within the police, of that I have no doubt, but instead of chanting 'fuck the police' I think chanting 'we demand minority representation in our local police department' is a lot more likely to result in change and less likely to incite violence.


They have freedom of speech and if they want to say fuck the police they can. The police can't say "oh well these people are saying fuck the police that means I can just not do my job, or act like an asshole" I get treated like shit at my job. Do I go around fucking with customers and ruining their day because of it? No.

Plus LA police are awful. I'm from there and I can tell you with conviction that LAPD is an absolute garbage police department. A cop was caught on camera killing a homeless man and planting a gun on him and the LAPD rehired him back onto the force.

#38 cara

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 03:01 PM

They have freedom of speech and if they want to say fuck the police they can. The police can't say "oh well these people are saying fuck the police that means I can just not do my job, or act like an asshole" I get treated like shit at my job. Do I go around fucking with customers and ruining their day because of it? No.

Plus LA police are awful. I'm from there and I can tell you with conviction that LAPD is an absolute garbage police department. A cop was caught on camera killing a homeless man and planting a gun on him and the LAPD rehired him back onto the force.

 

Ok well hey, if you think chanting fuck the police is somehow beneficial to your cause then by all means, do it. I agree that freedom of speech allows you to speak your mind, that was not my point. My point was that, in my opinion, it does not help either side to say 'fuck you'. 

 

But, if you think the police force there is trash, and you cannot think of a more constructive way to promote change other than profanities then .. I don't think you and I have much to debate about unfortunately.



#39 Kaddict

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 03:10 PM

Also, we aren't saying (actually, I don't want to put words into @cara's mouth...so I am not saying...) that they shouldn't be allowed to say "fuck the police" it just isn't doing them any favors. By doing this, they are planting fear into the police force. Fear leads to the dark side etc. So, the overly angry BLM supporters may be causing future shootings, by planting fear and racism into these cops heads.



#40 Mishelle

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 03:27 PM

Also, we aren't saying (actually, I don't want to put words into @cara's mouth...so I am not saying...) that they shouldn't be allowed to say "fuck the police" it just isn't doing them any favors. By doing this, they are planting fear into the police force. Fear leads to the dark side etc. So, the overly angry BLM supporters may be causing future shootings, by planting fear and racism into these cops heads.


Ok well hey, if you think chanting fuck the police is somehow beneficial to your cause then by all means, do it. I agree that freedom of speech allows you to speak your mind, that was not my point. My point was that, in my opinion, it does not help either side to say 'fuck you'.

But, if you think the police force there is trash, and you cannot think of a more constructive way to promote change other than profanities then .. I don't think you and I have much to debate about unfortunately.


You do realize that this is textbook tone policing bullshit. People have freedom of speech. Nothing gives police the right to continue violating people's rights with damn near impunity. Los Angeles has not charged a cop for an unlawful shooting in over 15 years. it's not doing police any favors to keep brutalizing and killing people either, but that doesn't seem to phase them considering this year is on track to becoming even more deadly than last year in regards to being killed by police.

I'm talking about lives, you're talking about tone.

#41 Coops

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 03:57 PM

Also, we aren't saying (actually, I don't want to put words into @cara's mouth...so I am not saying...) that they shouldn't be allowed to say "fuck the police" it just isn't doing them any favors. By doing this, they are planting fear into the police force. Fear leads to the dark side etc. So, the overly angry BLM supporters may be causing future shootings, by planting fear and racism into these cops heads.


What? The fear and racism is already there and has been for a long time now. It's a bit disingenuous to put that on BLM.

#42 Kaddict

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:03 PM

What? The fear and racism is already there and has been for a long time now. It's a bit disingenuous to put that on BLM.

If you guys would stop taking sound bites out of context, we might get somewhere:

 

I agree. I have some acquaintances/friends who are cops that I imagine abuse their authority. The problem is that some of them (a small minority) will never amount to much, and the only role of leadership or authority or power they will attain is that of pushing people around. Having said that, I think the problem with the BLM is that they are inciting violence (Think Malcom X instead of MLK), which put the cops more on edge. So, the BLM movement is honestly causing cops that had no previous racial biases to become biased/frightened, and cops that already have the bias to have their bias confirmed and strengthened. So, in that sense, BLM is just causing more racism. So, the few violent BLM people to me are like the few violent cops. Screwing their cause and making the other side more frightened for their lives than they should be.

 

Not all cops are racist, but I think BLM is making more cops subconsciously biased.



#43 Coops

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:09 PM

If you guys would stop taking sound bites out of context, we might get somewhere:
 

 
Not all cops are racist, but I think BLM is making more cops subconsciously biased.


I didn't. You actually said overly angry BLM people are making people (ie. cops) more fearful and racist. It's a bit silly, honestly, given everyone is biased. Every. single. human. ever. No one has ever been exempt. So to put that on BLM is really gross, frankly.

#44 Kaddict

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:11 PM

You do realize that this is textbook tone policing bullshit. People have freedom of speech. Nothing gives police the right to continue violating people's rights with damn near impunity. Los Angeles has not charged a cop for an unlawful shooting in over 15 years. it's not doing police any favors to keep brutalizing and killing people either, but that doesn't seem to phase them considering this year is on track to becoming even more deadly than last year in regards to being killed by police.

I'm talking about lives, you're talking about tone.

I haven't condoned the cops actions in any place. All I am saying is that peace and love can go further than hate and violence. I think the cops should be tried for these cases. And maybe, you could say that many of them should be with a jury of peers rather than through the police internal affairs office. But when you throw bricks at people, and call for their death, you have to understand that they are going to be more on edge. Still doesn't make it ok, but it explains why it happens a bit more.

 

I didn't. You actually said overly angry BLM people are making people (ie. cops) more fearful and racist. It's a bit silly, honestly, given everyone is biased. Every. single. human. ever. No one has ever been exempt. So to put that on BLM is really gross, frankly.

Did you read the line I bolded? I said that their biases are confirmed, or new biases are put into place.



#45 Padme

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:15 PM

FUCK THE POLICE



#46 Coops

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:16 PM

I haven't condoned the cops actions in any place. All I am saying is that peace and love can go further than hate and violence. I think the cops should be tried for these cases. And maybe, you could say that many of them should be with a jury of peers rather than through the police internal affairs office. But when you throw bricks at people, and call for their death, you have to understand that they are going to be more on edge. Still doesn't make it ok, but it explains why it happens a bit more.
 

Did you read the line I bolded? I said that their biases are confirmed, or new biases are put into place.


Did you?

"So, the BLM is honestly causing..."

"So in that sense, BLM is just causing more racism." - Kaddict

#47 Mishelle

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:20 PM

If you guys would stop taking sound bites out of context, we might get somewhere:

 

 

Not all cops are racist, but I think BLM is making more cops subconsciously biased.

 

If all it takes is someone saying "fuck the police" for them to decide to racial profile and harass black people THEY'RE ALREADY BIASED. You can't turn someone racist. They're racist to begin with.


I haven't condoned the cops actions in any place. All I am saying is that peace and love can go further than hate and violence. I think the cops should be tried for these cases. And maybe, you could say that many of them should be with a jury of peers rather than through the police internal affairs office. But when you throw bricks at people, and call for their death, you have to understand that they are going to be more on edge. Still doesn't make it ok, but it explains why it happens a bit more.

 

Did you read the line I bolded? I said that their biases are confirmed, or new biases are put into place.

 

Bruh, we've been peaceful for damn near 50 years. It's gotten us NOWHERE.



#48 Coops

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:22 PM

I just can't believe you're seriously trying to argue you didn't say something, when you did, then you bolded what I claimed you said, and then you repeated it again. Context is all there.

This is a fucking memorial thread. It's not here for you to ineptly quibble over how you percieve a movement from a place of luxury.

#49 Kaddict

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:24 PM

If all it takes is someone saying "fuck the police" for them to decide to racial profile and harass black people THEY'RE ALREADY BIASED. You can't turn someone racist. They're racist to begin with.


 

Bruh, we've been peaceful for damn near 50 years. It's gotten us NOWHERE.

When you throw bricks and moltov cocktails at people, that does nothing. It promotes racism. There is little to be done for the inherently racist, but those that aren't racist are becoming racist. Which is what I freaking said in my post (when it isn't taken out of damn context!).

And yes, you can turn people racist. 



#50 Mishelle

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:31 PM

When you throw bricks and moltov cocktails at people, that does nothing. It promotes racism. There is little to be done for the inherently racist, but those that aren't racist are becoming racist. Which is what I freaking said in my post (when it isn't taken out of damn context!).

And yes, you can turn people racist. 

 

NOTHING MAGICALLY TURNS SOMEONE RACIST. You either choose to be racist or you don't. That's dumb ass thinking to take an action of a few people and then use it to promote institutional discrimination against MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE THEM. Especially if you're in a career that can affect their lives to the point where you have the power to literally KILL THEM. This is not the same. There IS NOT EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE IN THIS SCENARIO. Stop saying that. The logic doesn't add up. You can't make someone MORE racist. You can't make someone TURN RACIST. They're either racist, or they're not. That logic is dumb and harmful and abusive and wrong. Seriously. Stop. Please. Quit it.


It's racism not the flu you don't just magically catch the shit in the air




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