80 replies to this topic

[Adam]

Paradigm shift from neocons to populists in right wing parties.

Lehmans terms please. 

[redlion]

Lehmans terms please.

It's hard to generalize because parties vary from country to country. But I'll try.

The attributes common to most populist parties (imo) are:
- immigration with a nativist twist (a la Brexit)
- isolationist or realignment of foreign allies
- anger at the perceived 'elites' (which usually means people with college educations)
- claim to represent the people more than other elected parties

While neocons, the other prevalent brand of right-wing party usually share these:
- emphasis on market deregulation and free trade
- corporate welfare for favored firms, agriculture usually benefits a lot
- evangelical view of life (question morality of abortion, doctor assisted suicide, drugs, etc)
- view the active spread of democracy by soft and hard power a legitimate goal

So the paradigm shift comes from the kinds of people that align with these two strains of ideology.

People with a college degree usually shy away from populists, while that's not the case for conservatives. Likewise people of color and blue collar workers usually shy away from neocons because they perceive free trade to harm working class jobs.

So the voter base shifts. The alternative to the neocons came from within the GOP this time instead of the democrats.

[jinq]

Bernie Sanders would have easily defeated Donald Trump but they had to rig the primaries against Bernie.

 

Sorry, Clinton, but Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Morocco are not battleground states and deleting 33k emails+bleachbit+hammering devices sounds more serious than deleting 18 minutes of tape.

[Ubermensch]

This is literally, the funniest result. I'm grinning from ear to ear at the hilarity.

[FelisNoctua]

As a woman, an atheist, a bisexual, a science teacher, a student of environmental science, and a friend of diverse people, I am so ashamed of America right now, and genuinely afraid for myself, my family, my friends, and my colleagues.

I conscientiously object to any term of Trump/Pence in the White House.

I. am aghast.

[Kaddict]

Why does everyone think the supreme court will be right leaning? It was 4-4-1 before scalia (easily the most conservative of the 9) died (leaving it 4-3-1 left leaning), so even if he is replaced by a scalia junior, the court will function the same as before. People were assuming hillary would appoint 4 justices because the liberal block would retire while they knew they would be able to be replaced by a younger liberal. Right? Or are we assuming that lots of people are going to die in the next 4 years? I honestly loved the 4-4-1 setup, even though it did give an absurd amount of power to 1 man (the swing vote). I don't want it to lean either way. I just want balance restored.

[Emily]

I don't want to be an American anymore. Bye.

[Strategist]

I don't want to be an American anymore. Bye.

Start getting that British accent under wraps haha

Can...can i move over there?

Sure, you can stay in the babies room.

[Dazz]

Just gotta take the loss, shrug it off and say ggwp. There's always next time right?

[Ladida]

This was a fascinating election to watch. If I wasn't as bitter as I am about the ABC countries actively rigging the past election in Guyana, I would feel worse for you guys right now. Let's hope Trump does better than my current Govt that is running us into the ground right now.

[Emily]

Just gotta take the loss, shrug it off and say ggwp. There's always next time right?

 

That would be easy if people weren't literally afraid of losing their rights.

[Coops]

If anything, this election has shown me that free or accessible higher education is fundamental for the progression of society.

[redlion]

Why does everyone think the supreme court will be right leaning? It was 4-4-1 before scalia (easily the most conservative of the 9) died (leaving it 4-3-1 left leaning), so even if he is replaced by a scalia junior, the court will function the same as before. People were assuming Hillary would appoint 4 justices because the liberal block would retire while they knew they would be able to be replaced by a younger liberal. Right? Or are we assuming that lots of people are going to die in the next 4 years? I honestly loved the 4-4-1 setup, even though it did give an absurd amount of power to 1 man (the swing vote). I don't want it to lean either way. I just want balance restored.

First, Kennedy is generally the swing vote because he has moderated with age, much like Chief Justice Roberts on the ACA. But Kennedy is and has been a conservative voice.

4-3-1 is really 4-4 on any substantial issue. For social issues, perhaps not, but for economics it's pretty much dead split. Kennedy was appointed by Reagan right at the end of the cold war. He's a capitalist through and through.

Scalia will be replaced, and Ginsberg and Breyer are the two oldest and most liberal justices on the bench. They'll both be over 80 by the end of Trump's term. It's not that people think they'll die, it's that after 20-25 years on the bench and declining health, justices sometimes retire to enjoy their remaining health, as you say. I don't think all four of the liberal arm would retire in the same term, but one or two of the older ones might.

Bush Jr. stuffed the bench with some really young guys during his term. Alito is an idiot, Roberts is alright but quite young for the job. Until he showed he had a conscious with the ACA ruling, I thought it was insane to replace Rehnquist with some teeny bopper Roberts, but he's turned out more moderate than his bush-appointed colleague.

That would be easy if people weren't literally afraid of losing their rights.

And my doctor/prescription coverage.

And my house cleaner. Definitely not legal immigrants.

Also, I think my investments are now worth a total of two dog shits and a red herring.

[Dazz]

That would be easy if people weren't literally afraid of losing their rights.

 

I feel ya, I never said it would be easy. But it's pretty much set in stone right? I know next to nothing about the US presidency, but i'm assuming you can't just protest a president out of the office? They have to be impeached or step down themselves right? And Trump doesn't strike me as someone who would do that. My bad if i'm wrong.

 

At the end of the day America fucked up, and now it has to live with the consequences whatever they may be, let's just hope they learn from their mistakes. I don't like the results as much as the next person, but what can you do? I can't do shit but offer support to whoever may be affected because i'm not an American

[bwoke]

Just gotta take the loss, shrug it off and say ggwp. There's always next time right?

 

"Next time" hmm.......

 

 

What hurts the most is that Hillary won the popular vote.

 

You know, I think Bernie Sanders would have destroyed Donald too. The only thing Donald did to attack Hillary was talk about her corruptness, which turned out to be pretty effective. You can't freakin say that to Bernie Sanders, I would personally take offense to anyone that says Bernie is corrupt. Whats another argument? You might say that Bernie is too "extreme" or "progressive" but you fail to realize Trump wants to build a gigantic wall and make MEXICO pay for it. He wants to ban ALL Muslim, There are 3.3 million Muslims living in America. What I'm trying to say is that no one has anything to bag on Bernie.

Edited by ohml, 09 November 2016 - 07:44 PM.

[Kaddict]

I still don't think people will lose rights, for multiple reasons. 1. The president has checks and balances, and currently the supreme court is liberal leaning (As redlion said Kennedy was appointed by raegan but was always somewhat moderate, and is actually more consistently liberal socially now). 2. I think all of the fearmongering and hate that trump was spreading were not actually his real ideals, just a way to incite fear in a population vulnerable to manipulation--and it worked. I predict we will all be surprised at how liberal trump actually still is (since he was adamantly liberal in the 90s, loved the clintons then etc).  

 

The same things were said about Obama 8 and 4 years ago. But here we are, Earth still in orbit. No one moved to Canada then, no one will now (not for purely presidential reasons anyway)

I read that there are 3.3 Muslims living in America. 

 

3.3 muslims? Dang, what does that 1/3 of a muslim look like? Poor kid...

[redlion]

I still don't think people will lose rights, for multiple reasons. 1. The president has checks and balances, and currently the supreme court is liberal leaning (As redlion said Kennedy was appointed by raegan but was always somewhat moderate, and is actually more consistently liberal socially now). 2. I think all of the fearmongering and hate that trump was spreading were not actually his real ideals, just a way to incite fear in a population vulnerable to manipulation--and it worked. I predict we will all be surprised at how liberal trump actually still is (since he was adamantly liberal in the 90s, loved the clintons then etc).  
 
The same things were said about Obama 8 and 4 years ago. But here we are, Earth still in orbit. No one moved to Canada then, no one will now (not for purely presidential reasons anyway)

 
3.3 muslims? Dang, what does that 1/3 of a muslim look like? Poor kid...

If I lose my healthcare I would consider moving to Canada or Ireland. Higher standard of living, less assholes.

If he starts legislating immigration on a religious or ethnic litmus test there will be constitutional challenges, and his tax plan is unrealistic even to other Republicans.

What I worry about most is how he's going to 'fix inner cities'. He's friends with Giuliani who's a believer in the debunked broken windows theory of crime reduction. Usually the words 'law and order' are bandied about and mandatory minimums go up, street stops go up, programs like stop and frisk continue.

He's already incited a good deal of the minority population to tears - when he starts coming into their neighbor hoods to gentrify them all, he's going to have race riots on his hands.

[Coops]

If I lose my healthcare I would consider moving to Canada or Ireland. Higher standard of living, less assholes.

If he starts legislating immigration on a religious or ethnic litmus test there will be constitutional challenges, and his tax plan is unrealistic even to other Republicans.

What I worry about most is how he's going to 'fix inner cities'. He's friends with Giuliani who's a believer in the debunked broken windows theory of crime reduction. Usually the words 'law and order' are bandied about and mandatory minimums go up, street stops go up, programs like stop and frisk continue.

He's already incited a good deal of the minority population to tears - when he starts coming into their neighbor hoods to gentrify them all, he's going to have race riots on his hands.

Mandatory minimums, debtors prison, civil asset seizure/forfeiture - all things that dramatically impact poor and marginalized people the most - and a lot of it is arguably unconstitutional. I agree it's scary to consider how these ideas are going to be implemented further. Stop and frisk didn't even fucking work enough to where the benefits outweigh the risks/impact and is hugely racially motivated.

[HiMyNameIsNick]

You guys can always come to Argentina, a third world country with a first world free healthcare for everyone  Hell, even cancer treatments are for free.

[redlion]

You guys can always come to Argentina, a third world country with a first world free healthcare for everyone  Hell, even cancer treatments are for free.

Argentina is dope, but I couldn't live anywhere outside of Buenos Aires as I don't speak Spanish fluently. I love Jorge Luis Borges though; I've read his Collected Fictions in translation.

[HiMyNameIsNick]

Argentina is dope, but I couldn't live anywhere outside of Buenos Aires as I don't speak Spanish fluently. I love Jorge Luis Borges though; I've read his Collected Fictions in translation.

 

Well, according to EF we are the most fluent english speakers in Latin America and 15th world wide, most of us speak at least basic english (as I do).

I find surprising that anyone outside this country would be familiar with JL Borges, I'm truly amazed.

[redlion]

Well, according to EF we are the most fluent english speakers in Latin America and 15th world wide, most of us speak at least basic english (as I do).
I find surprising that anyone outside this country would be familiar with JL Borges, I'm truly amazed.

I didn't know that as a country you were quite that fluent in English, but I suspected as much. BA has a reputation as an expatriate destination.

JLB I know because of a quote actually. He once said "I've always imagined heaven to be a kind of library."

I studied literature, so naturally such a quote appealed to me. I followed up (for once in my life) and bought a book of his fiction and loved it.

[MozzarellaSticks]

I still don't think people will lose rights, for multiple reasons. 1. The president has checks and balances, and currently the supreme court is liberal leaning (As redlion said Kennedy was appointed by raegan but was always somewhat moderate, and is actually more consistently liberal socially now). 2. I think all of the fearmongering and hate that trump was spreading were not actually his real ideals, just a way to incite fear in a population vulnerable to manipulation--and it worked. I predict we will all be surprised at how liberal trump actually still is (since he was adamantly liberal in the 90s, loved the clintons then etc).

The same things were said about Obama 8 and 4 years ago. But here we are, Earth still in orbit. No one moved to Canada then, no one will now (not for purely presidential reasons anyway)


3.3 muslims? Dang, what does that 1/3 of a muslim look like? Poor kid...

Except, Congress is remaining red, too, and Trump gets to appoint his Justice (and potentially more). His checks and balances will be on his side. We're talking people that literally included in their campaigns they're distaste for anyone who looks brown, and they're distaste for funding to women's health clinics. We're talking about the same red Congress that continuely blocked Obama. We'll definitely be seeing a major setback in social issues.

Trump won't get a lot of his things, and I doubt he wants everything really, but that doesn't mean this won't be a tough time for a lot of minorities. All that fear mongering will have unfortunate results.

[redlion]

To your last bit, that is what I fear.

I think it will embolden hate groups. The far right, the 'alt-right' as they like to be called now, are the rising star.

The left is going to have to rebuild. I don't know if that will take a centrist or socialist flavor, but it'll have to have a better message than stronger together, or I'm with her.

Down with wall street is a good slogan. We need a young socialist. A Bernie acolyte with Chomsky quotes on the tip of her tongue.

[Drakonid]

You guys can always come to Argentina, a third world country with a first world free healthcare for everyone  Hell, even cancer treatments are for free.

We're going to build a wall and the US is going to pay for it.