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The Pewdiepie situation - new media vs old media


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#1 Cass

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:57 AM

It's hard to have missed it, but there's been a lot of outrage lately revolving around YouTube's biggest creator: Pewdiepie (a.k.a. Felix Kjellberg).

 

PewDiePie, or Pewdie is the YouTube alias of Swedish gamer Felix Kjellberg. He is known for his Let’s Play videos, often choosing horror-themed games. As of August 16th, 2013, PewDiePie became the most subscribed YouTube channel of all time, surpassing the previous record held by the sketch comedy duo Smosh since January 2013.

 

http://knowyourmeme....eople/pewdiepie

 

He became the topic of controversy after a couple of videos containing anti-Semitic jokes, most notably this one:

 

*reupload of his original video that was deleted. I have no idea if Pewdiepie himself deleted it or YouTube*

 

Shortly after, the Wall Street Journal covered Pewdiepie in the following article:

Disney severs ties with Youtube-star Pewdiepie after anti-semitic posts

https://www.wsj.com/...osts-1487034533

 

And then an absolute media shitstorm started.

 

The latest voice of Pewdiepie in this matter:

 

It's worth googling a couple of articles and watching Pewdiepie's videos, along with some other popular YouTuber's videos to see the different sides of the story. A list of some things you can look into in the spoilers down below; I tried to gather as many varied opinions as possible.

 

Spoiler

 

So... debate away!



#2 DonValentino

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:11 PM

Can you state the question without me having to watch these videos

#3 Cass

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:15 PM

Can you state the question without me having to watch these videos

Can you be any lazier? Do you want me to tell you what opinion you should have?



#4 DonValentino

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:42 PM

Can you be any lazier? Do you want me to tell you what opinion you should have?


I'm asking what debate you're trying to have since there's no question asked in the text you wrote

#5 Coops

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:45 PM

I've seen this floating around FB. I never really got into his videos and didn't even know who he was until your PubQuiz thing last year lmao. Honestly, he seems really obnoxious (based on the sample of videos I've just watched). If he's saying racist shit, we should be calling him out on it. 



#6 Cass

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:49 PM

I'm asking what debate you're trying to have since there's no question asked in the text you wrote

The debate covers a lot of grounds - racism, media (mis)representation, context, reader's laziness in reading only article headlines, new vs old media, just to name a few. There's no singular question and it's completely pointless engaging in the debate if you're not consuming the content.



#7 Kway

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:13 PM

All I can say is that he is over-rated and there are far better people to follow and watch.



#8 Pink_Bubble

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:34 PM

Jokes about ethnic genocide and mass slaughter of jews have no place in daily conversation, let alone on a YouTube channel whose 50-million subscribers are mostly children. It absolutely does normalize nazist views and violence against jews, and his dismissal of that notion (saying "spoiler alert, it doesn't") shows his lack of remorse. He's not sorry about his joke and its repercussions, he's sorry that he didn't realize the personal consequences, to the extent it affects him, of making light of the largest mass human slaughter in history.  Makes me wish Stalin were still around:

 

NcHJmGc.jpg


Edited by Pink_Bubble, 19 February 2017 - 02:35 PM.


#9 JinxProof

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:46 PM

I read a comment that summed up my feelings pretty well. They said that even if you take into account the fact is was supposed to be a joke, it's like a millionaire throwing change on the ground for a homeless person to scramble about and pick up. Pewdiepie has no right to say how silly it is for people to need 5 dollars desperately enough to do anything for it when he has more money than most of us will ever see. It was tasteless and the joke wasn't funny. Then he got defensive. Even his friends are coming out against him on this, so I don't know how much debate you can have.



#10 ortin

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:17 PM

Disney is a private corporation, sponsoring Pewdiepie on a privately run online show. If Disney thinks that Pewdiepie's jokes were distasteful to the point that they didn't want to be associated with that, it's Disney's right to sever ties with Pewdiepie. Free speech still means speech has consequences, unless if you're the President of the United States :(



#11 Generic

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:27 PM

Wow, turns out I'm the minority opinion in this? I thought it was pretty unanimously obvious that the media is defaming him and people are just eating up the opportunity to call him a Nazi because they dislike him. Confirmation bias type thing, "Ugh Pewdiepie is so annoying... Oh and he's a Nazi? Yeah, screw him!"

 

He's not a Nazi. The whole reason that Fiverr video was funny was BECAUSE it was shocking. It was like "Holy crap I can't believe these people actually did this". It's low brow, shock value, stupid humor, sure. But he's not a Nazi lol. Also, to the people saying that Felix was abusing the Fiverr people and this is somehow his fault... I disagree entirely. What he said in his response video is entirely true. Those dudes "dancing in the jungle" as they themselves put it, were just following through with their business on their own free will. Their entire purpose is people to laugh at them. They're caricatures. That's like someone hiring a clown and laughing when they get hit in the face with a pie, and then people get offended on behalf of the clown. If the people in the video cared that their customers were laughing about it, they wouldn't be doing the stupid crap for people's entertainment. People are getting offended on behalf of people that are voluntarily acting goofy for money.

 

Also, I'd like to point out, why is all the backlash against Pewdiepie anyway? Why is no one upset at Fiverr? Or how come no one is upset at the people who followed through with the order? They're people too, why is it only Pewdiepie that's held accountable for his actions? Why is Pewd an anti-semite for ordering that request, as a joke, and not expecting it, but the people in the video who voluntarily followed through with it not even questioned?

 

I understand that freedom of speech is a two way street, people are allowed to have whatever opinions they want on the video. But NEWS OUTLETS aren't people. News outlets are gigantic corporations with the legal duty to not slander (libel) an individual. They took a bunch of clips out of context and stitched them together to form a story. Why does anyone even trust the media anymore? It's just filled to the brim with bias and sensationalism. It's disgusting.

 

I'd like to clarify that I don't like or care about Pewdiepie either, by the way. The only thing I'm against is labeling people Nazi over a joke that he didn't even think would happen, and news outlets getting away with flat out defamation and fabricating a story. Context matters.

 

Edit: inb4 i regret posting my opinion and i'm labelled racist


Edited by Generic, 19 February 2017 - 03:32 PM.


#12 Pink_Bubble

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:49 PM

Wow, turns out I'm the minority opinion in this? I thought it was pretty unanimously obvious that the media is defaming him and people are just eating up the opportunity to call him a Nazi because they dislike him. Confirmation bias type thing, "Ugh Pewdiepie is so annoying... Oh and he's a Nazi? Yeah, screw him!"

 

He's not a Nazi. The whole reason that Fiverr video was funny was BECAUSE it was shocking. It was like "Holy crap I can't believe these people actually did this". It's low brow, shock value, stupid humor, sure. But he's not a Nazi lol. Also, to the people saying that Felix was abusing the Fiverr people and this is somehow his fault... I disagree entirely. What he said in his response video is entirely true. Those dudes "dancing in the jungle" as they themselves put it, were just following through with their business on their own free will. Their entire purpose is people to laugh at them. They're caricatures. That's like someone hiring a clown and laughing when they get hit in the face with a pie, and then people get offended on behalf of the clown. If the people in the video cared that their customers were laughing about it, they wouldn't be doing the stupid crap for people's entertainment. People are getting offended on behalf of people that are voluntarily acting goofy for money.

 

Also, I'd like to point out, why is all the backlash against Pewdiepie anyway? Why is no one upset at Fiverr? Or how come no one is upset at the people who followed through with the order? They're people too, why is it only Pewdiepie that's held accountable for his actions? Why is Pewd an anti-semite for ordering that request, as a joke, and not expecting it, but the people in the video who voluntarily followed through with it not even questioned?

 

I understand that freedom of speech is a two way street, people are allowed to have whatever opinions they want on the video. But NEWS OUTLETS aren't people. News outlets are gigantic corporations with the legal duty to not slander (libel) an individual. They took a bunch of clips out of context and stitched them together to form a story. Why does anyone even trust the media anymore? It's just filled to the brim with bias and sensationalism. It's disgusting.

 

I'd like to clarify that I don't like or care about Pewdiepie either, by the way. The only thing I'm against is labeling people Nazi over a joke that he didn't even think would happen, and news outlets getting away with flat out defamation and fabricating a story. Context matters.

 

Edit: inb4 i regret posting my opinion and i'm labelled racist

 

 

Whether or not he's a Nazi is conjecture.

 

What's known for a fact is that he funded and facilitated the Nazist message of "death to all jews" to be broadcasted to his audience of over fifty million.

 

Your long-winded defense of white supremacy and anti-semetism says a lot more about your proximity and complacency toward it.



#13 ortin

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:04 PM

Wow, turns out I'm the minority opinion in this? I thought it was pretty unanimously obvious that the media is defaming him and people are just eating up the opportunity to call him a Nazi because they dislike him. Confirmation bias type thing, "Ugh Pewdiepie is so annoying... Oh and he's a Nazi? Yeah, screw him!"

 

He's not a Nazi. The whole reason that Fiverr video was funny was BECAUSE it was shocking. It was like "Holy crap I can't believe these people actually did this". It's low brow, shock value, stupid humor, sure. But he's not a Nazi lol. Also, to the people saying that Felix was abusing the Fiverr people and this is somehow his fault... I disagree entirely. What he said in his response video is entirely true. Those dudes "dancing in the jungle" as they themselves put it, were just following through with their business on their own free will. Their entire purpose is people to laugh at them. They're caricatures. That's like someone hiring a clown and laughing when they get hit in the face with a pie, and then people get offended on behalf of the clown. If the people in the video cared that their customers were laughing about it, they wouldn't be doing the stupid crap for people's entertainment. People are getting offended on behalf of people that are voluntarily acting goofy for money.

 

Also, I'd like to point out, why is all the backlash against Pewdiepie anyway? Why is no one upset at Fiverr? Or how come no one is upset at the people who followed through with the order? They're people too, why is it only Pewdiepie that's held accountable for his actions? Why is Pewd an anti-semite for ordering that request, as a joke, and not expecting it, but the people in the video who voluntarily followed through with it not even questioned?

 

I understand that freedom of speech is a two way street, people are allowed to have whatever opinions they want on the video. But NEWS OUTLETS aren't people. News outlets are gigantic corporations with the legal duty to not slander (libel) an individual. They took a bunch of clips out of context and stitched them together to form a story. Why does anyone even trust the media anymore? It's just filled to the brim with bias and sensationalism. It's disgusting.

 

I'd like to clarify that I don't like or care about Pewdiepie either, by the way. The only thing I'm against is labeling people Nazi over a joke that he didn't even think would happen, and news outlets getting away with flat out defamation and fabricating a story. Context matters.

 

Edit: inb4 i regret posting my opinion and i'm labelled racist

Here is the full WSJ article, in case if you didn't read it (since it's subscription only and all that):

 

Spoiler

 

You argue that news media have a responsibility to not slander against an individual, which is true. However, what I see is a professionally written news article on the Wall Street Journal, simply telling the facts. Pewdiepie DID post videos using anti-Semitic rhetoric as jokes! Notice how the WSJ had enough nuance to never call Pewdiepie an outright racist (stitching out of context videos into a story?), just that he used racist jokes. Furthermore, while it is fairly self evident that these were jokes, this quote from the article is concerning: "In Mr. Kjellberg’s case, a major neo-Nazi website has embraced his statements." If you get to the point where a neo-Nazi website embrace your statements, it might be a sign that you took it too far. 



#14 Cass

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:21 PM

Wow, turns out I'm the minority opinion in this?

I share your minority opinion ;p I'll admit my opinion is incredibly biased; Pewdiepie is my absolute guilty pleasure and I subscribed back when there were a mere 300k subscribers (wow so edgy cass), so I've seen a lot of his content and seen him change and develop over the years (and BOY has he changed a lot).
 
Did the jokes go too far? In my opinion, yes, but I am strongly in favour of joking about whatever the hell you want, even if that offends me personally. It's what makes South Park great. And that's the thing that bothers me a lot: the hypocrisy of who can and who can't make offensive joke. Whether they're anti-semitic, racial, rape-jokes, et cetera.
 
"But Pewdiepie has a huge audience, he should set an example" or "Pewdiepie has a really young impressionable audience". Well, firstly, Pewdiepie's not their parent. The notion that public (entertainment) figures are obligated to set the right example (same goes for popular music artists, for example) is absolutely stupid in my opinion. It's a different thing if you're in a position of power - looking at you, Cheeto - but if you rose to fame because you were screaming at your computer, then why on earth do you expect that person to set the right example? Secondly, doesn't South Park have a - you know - huge audience?
 
"But the makers of South Park are professional comedians". Don't forget South Park started as a sort of college joke. Don't discredit someone's level of professionalism when that person has gained a fanbase of 53 million people. That's a whole fuckload of people and you don't get there by accident - regardless of whether is humour is to your personal taste. And furthermore, deciding who is authorized to make jokes on certain topics seems very troubling to me.
 
Where is all the outrage over the dark corners of the internet, who joke about politically incorrect stuff all the time? Why is no effort being put in shutting down /b/? Hiddenlol? Is it because they're a lot of people, and Pewdiepie is a singular person? What sense is there in that? If one famous person jokes about jews it's horrible, but when thousands of people do it in the same spot at the same time it's suddenly fine, because you can't stop it, or their audience isn't big enough?
 
Then there's the matter of context. The short version of this ranting paragraph is: media takes shit out of context to conform to their goal in the article. There's quite a few examples you can pick up on with just a couple of clicks, but I'm gonna touch on only one: Pewdiepie made a video ranting about the media, how they take things out of context. He then deliberately made an offensive joke, and then a news outlet (I believe the WSJ again but I may be wrong on this) took that video, cut everything out except for the offensive joke and then went on to write an article about how he's a racist mysoginist anti-semitic whatever buzzword. WHAT.

 

Something that has bothered me for a lifetime, is the power (and misuse of this power) of headlines. It's not solely a clickbait-issue (although clickbaits are my absolute nemesis), newspapers have had to have strong titles since the day they were born. The irritating thing about it is the unwillingness of readers to read past the headline and actually delve into an article. "I don't feel like reading this entire article so I'm just gonna go ahead and read this blatantly misleading headline and spread the word about it".

 

Last but not least, another issue that these events raise for me: what happened to actual objective news? Why aren't journalists even trying anymore? At school we used to be taught there's a difference between a news article and an opinion piece. Nowadays I can't see the difference anymore. There's nothing wrong with journalists offering their opinions - as long as they do it at the right time at the right place. You cannot disguise your opinion as a news article. I expect it from Buzzfeed, but reputable news sources? I'm not familiar with the Wall Street Journal at all, so I'll just speak for my own experiences, about how there's legions of once-reputable (digital) newspapers running with the angry-swearing-opinion-trend. And I see the irony of me spouting my opinion angrily and swearing, but here's the thing: I'm not a journalist and don't claim to be one. And, surprise, Codex isn't a news outlet. I have no obligation to objectively bring news.

 

Were the jokes in bad taste? Yes. Is he a fascist? No, and it takes only a couple of minutes to explore further to conclude he's not. Does it matter if he is or not? Yes, absolutely. Aren't people who joke about the holocaust just as bad as Hitler? Get out, now, and get your moral compass fixed. Do I personally think the media is slandering Pewdiepie? Absolutely.

 

It's not the first time it's happened to popular internet celebrities. In this example, Jenna Marbles, another YouTube personality. It's on a waaaayyyy smaller scale, obviously.

Jenna's response.

 

So that concludes my rant. In a good opinion piece you have a kicker of an ending in which you refer back to your beginning paragraph. So, [insert reference to first paragraph here]. Good thing I'm not a professional journalist.



#15 Bone

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:40 PM

I was typing up a longer response to this but I got tired, so here's my $.02:

 

The opinion that people should joke about whatever they want is a privileged one. Jokes are never made in a vacuum, and it's the responsibility of the person making a joke to consider who its target it is and what effects it may have. While Pewdiepie probably isn’t a Nazi, joking about the Holocaust normalizes antisemitism and trivializes the unfathomable trauma people are still living through. Period.

 

No one is saying that he can’t make those kinds of jokes, but instead that it’s irresponsible, and content creators who are using a massive platform in a way that may cause harm to marginalized communities should not be financially supported or given a free pass. 

 

Essentially - with power comes responsibility. I'm choosing to side with the victims of antisemitism in this case, not the person who's trivialized it.



#16 ortin

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:41 PM

Then there's the matter of context. The short version of this ranting paragraph is: media takes shit out of context to conform to their goal in the article. There's quite a few examples you can pick up on with just a couple of clicks, but I'm gonna touch on only one: Pewdiepie made a video ranting about the media, how they take things out of context. He then deliberately made an offensive joke, and then a news outlet (I believe the WSJ again but I may be wrong on this) took that video, cut everything out except for the offensive joke and then went on to write an article about how he's a racist mysoginist anti-semitic whatever buzzword. WHAT.

The original reporter of the story is the WSJ. Again, the WSJ has never said that Pewdiepie is a "racist mysoginist anti-semitic whatever buzzword", only that he has used offensive jokes in his videos. Other new organizations may have made that ludicrous claim, but as far as I can see the WSJ handled it incredibly professionally. 

 

 

The irritating thing about it is the unwillingness of readers to read past the headline and actually delve into an article. "I don't feel like reading this entire article so I'm just gonna go ahead and read this blatantly misleading headline and spread the word about it"

I completely agree, but also in the opposite way of what you mean. I think you are overreacting to the "bias and sensationalism" in media, specifically this piece. If people actually read the WSJ article, they would see that the reporters weren't trying to be sensational by linking ludicrous claims with badly chosen evidence. The Wall Street Journal just laid out the evidence, gave examples of what other people thought, and left it at that. That being said, there has been plenty of people who clearly overreacted the other way, being outraged that Pewdiepie is RACIST MYSOGINIST AND ANTI-SEMITIC without actually reading the article. 



#17 Generic

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:46 PM

Wowee-zowee, I regret posting my opinion already.

 

Your long-winded defense of white supremacy and anti-semetism says a lot more about your proximity and complacency toward it.

 

Thus begins the unfounded attacks on my character, cool. Because I defend someone who made an offensive joke and got roasted by mainstream news... I am therefore in close proximity to white supremacy and anti-semitism? I just have a dark sense of humor, and I don't get offended easily. Where did I even defend white supremacy or anti-semetism? I gave my opinion that I don't think it's fair for news outlets to call him a Nazi, and I said the joke was poor taste, but that's just some people's sense of humor.

 

What's known for a fact is that he funded and facilitated the Nazist message of "death to all jews" to be broadcasted to his audience of over fifty million.

 

Yeah, because he was so shocked that the people in the video actually did it. Just because the words appeared in his video doesn't mean he endorsed them. He literally put them there to show how ridiculous this Fiverr thing can be. If a feminist video includes some man saying "I like sexual assault" and then the feminist says how shocking this is, does this mean that message "I like sexual assault" is endorsed by the channel? Of course not.

 

 

 

Here is the full WSJ article, in case if you didn't read it (since it's subscription only and all that):

 

You argue that news media have a responsibility to not slander against an individual, which is true. However, what I see is a professionally written news article on the Wall Street Journal, simply telling the facts. Pewdiepie DID post videos using anti-Semitic rhetoric as jokes! Notice how the WSJ had enough nuance to never call Pewdiepie an outright racist (stitching out of context videos into a story?), just that he used racist jokes. Furthermore, while it is fairly self evident that these were jokes, this quote from the article is concerning: "In Mr. Kjellberg’s case, a major neo-Nazi website has embraced his statements." If you get to the point where a neo-Nazi website embrace your statements, it might be a sign that you took it too far. 

 

I have a few points to make in response to this.

 

Firstly, the video I'm referring to that stitched a false narrative is this: http://www.wsj.com/v...8F1E1ABEA9.html

 

Notice how, unlike the rest of the article which you had to subscribe for, this video was free. It was also VERY sensationalized and dramatic. Not exactly unbiased reporting. ALSO, you're right. The REST of the article from the WSJ is less one sided. Slightly, at the least. But that just feeds my point even more: The WSJ posted a VERY sensationalized video (which is what most people have seen. Most of what goes viral is videos, not articles). Also the title is sensationalized. It's only once the WSJ has your money, you're subscribed to them, then they let you off the hook and they're like "So here's exactly what happened, it's not that bad but it's still kinda bad." Which is fair. It was kinda bad. But not NEARLY as bad as the video and title make him sound.

 

In response to the thing about neo-nazis supporting pewd, that's just ridiculous. They're doing that to screw around and make a social commentary. That racist group later said that they supported the writers of the article that defamed Felix. They're messing around. Even the neo-nazi group realized Felix was just joking and that he was getting screwed by the media, so they added fuel to it.

 

 

 

@Cass (My quotes got screwed up for some reason)

 

"But Pewdiepie has a huge audience, he should set an example" or "Pewdiepie has a really young impressionable audience". Well, firstly, Pewdiepie's not their parent. The notion that public (entertainment) figures are obligated to set the right example (same goes for popular music artists, for example) is absolutely stupid in my opinion.


 

110% agree with this. Just because a person (Pewdiepie) happened to become famous and have a big platform of listeners, he suddenly has to be completely uncontroversial and have no human qualities like a dark sense of humor or human reactions to things? If people don't like him, don't watch him. I don't like him, so I don't watch him. Why is he a stand in for parents here? Why is he responsible for what random kids hear? Why are the parents not accountable for what their kids watch? Yeah, Pewdiepie used to be kid friendly, but he's not anymore. Didn't he have his ass shaved in a filthy frank video? Don't let your kids watch him. Jesus.

 

 

Last but not least, another issue that these events raise for me: what happened to actual objective news? Why aren't journalists even trying anymore? At school we used to be taught there's a difference between a news article and an opinion piece. Nowadays I can't see the difference anymore.

 

So much this. Where is the objective news. I'm tired of reading right wing and left wing news and trying to figure out where the middle ground is. Especially since 95% of mainstream news outlets now are left wing. I'm an apathetic, left-leaning centrist. I believe that gay people should be allowed to get married and I also believe that stupid teenage boys should be able to make dumb jokes about gay people among themselves if they want. Why do I feel like everyone perceives my "do what you want, just don't take it too far" views are so bigoted?


Edited by Generic, 19 February 2017 - 05:01 PM.


#18 ortin

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:04 PM

I have a few points to make in response to this.

 

Firstly, the video I'm referring to that stitched a false narrative is this: http://www.wsj.com/v...8F1E1ABEA9.html

 

Notice how, unlike the rest of the article which you had to subscribe for, this video was free. It was also VERY sensationalized and dramatic. Not exactly unbiased reporting. ALSO, you're right. The REST of the article from the WSJ is less one sided. Slightly, at the least. But that just feeds my point even more: The WSJ posted a VERY sensationalized video (which is what most people have seen. Most of what goes viral is videos, not articles). Also the title is sensationalized. It's only once the WSJ has your money, you're subscribed to them, then they let you off the hook and they're like "So here's exactly what happened, it's not that bad but it's still kinda bad." Which is fair. It was kinda bad. But not NEARLY as bad as the video and title make him sound.

 

In response to the thing about neo-nazis supporting pewd, that's just ridiculous. They're doing that to screw around and make a social commentary. That racist group later said that they supported the writers of the article that defamed Felix. They're messing around. Even the neo-nazi group realized Felix was just joking and that he was getting screwed by the media, so they added fuel to it.

I had not watched the video. After watching it, wow I agree with you. The video never once explained that the anti-semitic jokes were JOKES, and heavily inferred that Pewdiepie was serious about it. This is some borderline intellectual dishonesty :/

 

I don't agree with your argument that the title was sensationalized, however. Disney did in fact cut ties with Pewdiepie, so what's wrong with calling the article/video "Disney Cuts Ties to YouTube Superstar PewDiePie"? An actual clickbait title would be a sensational title with an article that has little to do with it. 



#19 Generic

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:09 PM

I had not watched the video. After watching it, wow I agree with you. The video never once explained that the anti-semitic jokes were JOKES, and heavily inferred that Pewdiepie was serious about it. This is some borderline intellectual dishonesty :/

 

I don't agree with your argument that the title was sensationalized, however. Disney did in fact cut ties with Pewdiepie, so what's wrong with calling the article/video "Disney Cuts Ties to YouTube Superstar PewDiePie"? An actual clickbait title would be a sensational title with an article that has little to do with it. 

 

I'm glad we agree on the video, at least. I agree the title wasn't nearly as heavily sensationalized, but it was definitely still leaning that way. No reference to the fact that they were jokes. They were called "Anti-Semetic Posts" in the title... but they weren't even posts. They were jokes in a video.

 

Anyway, my main point was the video being over the top, so yeah, we're basically agreed anyway.



#20 Karla

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:19 PM

(copy-pasta'd from a different forum)

 

I know Felix is a nice guy, but he made a mistake. He did this thinking Fiver wouldn't take his request, but they did, and now it's coming back to hurt him. A mistake is still a mistake, despite his intentions.

I'm a big fan of his, have been since 2011, and I'll still watch his videos (when they're not completely stupid), but I won't apologize for his actions with Fiver at all. Jokes, are fine, but if you're going to keep your partnerships, jobs, or grants, you need to watch your mouth.

 

Also, making racist/anti-semitic/homophobic etc. jokes in this day in age is just asking for trouble.



#21 Romy

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:42 PM

I was typing up a longer response to this but I got tired, so here's my $.02:

 

The opinion that people should joke about whatever they want is a privileged one. Jokes are never made in a vacuum, and it's the responsibility of the person making a joke to consider who its target it is and what effects it may have. While Pewdiepie probably isn’t a Nazi, joking about the Holocaust normalizes antisemitism and trivializes the unfathomable trauma people are still living through. Period.

 

No one is saying that he can’t make those kinds of jokes, but instead that it’s irresponsible, and content creators who are using a massive platform in a way that may cause harm to marginalized communities should not be financially supported or given a free pass. 

 

Essentially - with power comes responsibility. I'm choosing to side with the victims of antisemitism in this case, not the person who's trivialized it.

So....we should treat him differently because he has a big platform?

It's his channel and he should be allowed to post whatever he wants on it. If you're going to call him out on the shit he posts (in bad taste or not) you should be consistent with your outrage.

 

At the end of the day, Youtube allows us to view videos we want and not view those we don't want to view. If you don't like his content, don't view it.  It's that simple.



#22 ohml

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:54 PM

I have only browsed through this thread, though I have been keeping up with the story. (If you count Scarce and Keemstar as news) I have to agree with @Bone with this one. Of course it isn't illegal and there is freedom of speech and what not, but it would have been best for him not to do this. "Death to all Jews" has the same letters and configuration whether it be said by a Nazi, or some drunk guy downing is 8th glass of beer. Yes you can post whatever you want, yes it is legal to do what he did, but was what he did ethical? Judging by his circumstances, I don't think so. Anyways, I just think media blew this way out of proportion lol. He isn't a neo-nazi.


Edited by ohml, 19 February 2017 - 09:55 PM.


#23 FaerieQueen

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:43 AM

The "jokes" weren't even funny. I can let a lot go in the name of humor, but saying "Hitler did nothing wrong" or "Death to all Jews" really isn't clever, you know? And just think about the horrific things that were done (don't want to go in to detail, but you should read up on explicit details of what happened in the camps/in the gas chambers to children and people in general) it really makes me sick to think that people can just make light of the situation. I feel like people are desensitized to the holocaust. I think I was desensitized until I read more details and really understood what happened to these people, because the details are usually just glossed over. 

 

There's also a growing wave of openly antisemitic people in the US right now, and so it's kind of normalizing that kind of language. I just don't find it funny, one bit.



#24 xdeathwolfx

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:46 AM

in my opinion he (we) should be allowed to say whatever we want political / racist or otherwise and if people dont like it, the problem lies with them as a person, i don't hate on people's religious views or opinions, and sometimes im contriversial and politically uncorrect, but thats who i am, and i dont care what  other views of me are.

 

Hitler/nazi views: its in the past, cant change that (yes it was wrong) but guys Hitler was a "victim' of suicide... xD



#25 Bone

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:10 PM

in my opinion he (we) should be allowed to say whatever we want political / racist or otherwise and if people dont like it, the problem lies with them as a person, i don't hate on people's religious views or opinions, and sometimes im contriversial and politically uncorrect, but thats who i am, and i dont care what  other views of me are.

 

Hitler/nazi views: its in the past, cant change that (yes it was wrong) but guys Hitler was a "victim' of suicide... xD

 

So you're saying that being a victim of racism means there's something wrong with you, but being a racist doesn't. Got it.


So....we should treat him differently because he has a big platform?

It's his channel and he should be allowed to post whatever he wants on it. If you're going to call him out on the shit he posts (in bad taste or not) you should be consistent with your outrage.

 

At the end of the day, Youtube allows us to view videos we want and not view those we don't want to view. If you don't like his content, don't view it.  It's that simple.

 

He should be able to post whatever he wants (as long as it's not a threat or hate speech), but not without consequence. I treat all antisemitism the same way - by repudiating it. I never said he should be treated differently, just that his actions and language are amplified by his platform.

 

"If you don't like his content, don't view it" - ignoring prejudice and bigotry doesn't make it go away. Even if I'm not personally affected by the video, or antisemitism in general, I still don't want antisemitism to have a place in public discourse. Bigotry can start out as jokes, or videos, or whatever, but it doesn't take long for it to become violence if people don't take a stand against it and make it clear that it will not be tolerated. See: Dylan Roof, ISIS, Alexandre Bissonette.




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