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Spanking? Yes, no, or grey area?


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#26 Adam

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:02 PM

SIde note: @Nymh and @Sweeney need to come around more often! You folks bring so much activity to an otherwise dead forum. Your presence is very...refreshing to say the least.



#27 Sweeney

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:03 PM

SIde note: @Nymh and @Sweeney need to come around more often! You folks bring so much activity to an otherwise dead forum. Your presence is very...refreshing to say the least.


We decided to vomit words everywhere at one point late last night :)

#28 Karla

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:04 PM

As a person who has been spanked many times in her life, I can guarantee that it has not taught me right from wrong. It just taught me fear of "when's the next spanking coming." Not to mention I felt more fear than I did correction.

 

I actually felt more correction whenever my mom or dad would talk to me in a strict tone.

 

I don't support spanking, and I would only use it as an absolute last resort.



#29 Sweeney

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:05 PM

Discipline through fear also leads to more secret-keeping. Oooh.

#30 Amethyst

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:08 PM

SIde note: @Nymh and @Sweeney need to come around more often! You folks bring so much activity to an otherwise dead forum. Your presence is very...refreshing to say the least.

 

^ this

 

 

Discipline through fear also leads to more secret-keeping. Oooh.

 

Yep, that's what I've found too



#31 Adam

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:08 PM

As a person who has been spanked many times in her life, I can guarantee that it has not taught me right from wrong. It just taught me fear of "when's the next spanking coming." Not to mention I felt more fear than I did correction.

 

I actually felt more correction whenever my mom or dad would talk to me in a strict tone.

 

I don't support spanking, and I would only use it as an absolute last resort.

Very much this. Also as a person who was hit and spanked as a child, quite a bit, it didn't do anything for me other than instilling fear. My father was big into hitting my sister and I (mostly me) if we didn't do well on tests or homework assignments. If I were struggling during a test as a youngster, I couldn't focus on taking the test, I would just focus on the beating I'd receive when I brought home the grade. 

 

After a while I started to learn to not trust my parents, and never tell them anything. Even to this day a lot of things they've done have kept me from getting over trust issues(with others) and anger at them.

 

Violence against kids, or anyone for that matter, is not okay.



#32 Coops

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:09 PM

Very much this. Also as a person who was hit and spanked as a child, quite a bit, it didn't do anything for me other than instilling fear. My father was big into hitting my sister and I (mostly me) if we didn't do well on tests or homework assignments. If I were struggling during a test as a youngster, I couldn't focus on taking the test, I would just focus on the beating I'd receive when I brought home the grade. 

What the fuck. That makes me so angry and sad for you.



#33 Adam

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:12 PM

What the fuck. That makes me so angry and sad for you.

If I ever have kids I'll take my experiences from my childhood, and not apply them to raising my kids. :]



#34 Coops

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:14 PM

If I ever have kids I'll take my experiences from my childhood, and not apply them to raising my kids. :]

Same man, same. My parents were terrible parents and my dad is a terrible person lol. Idk how I survived and didn't turn into an abusive dumpster fire tbh.



#35 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:38 PM

To be fair, I wouldn't spank my children either. I have learned that there are much better ways to handle punishments that work. 

 

I guess where I am coming from is, I was not spanked a lot as a kid. And, I was spanked for getting caught stealing from a store. My dad was the only one who spanked me. My mom never had to spank me. I don't know what it was about my mom, but I tried my best to be as good as possible for her because she had her hands full with my sister. My mom also never spanked my sister because my sister fought back when dad did it (could defend herself). My mom would always lose when she tried talking to my sister or yelling at her because she didn't want to spank her because, unlike my sister willing to hit our mom, my mom could never hit my sister, even in defense.

 

As a teenager, I didn't do a lot of the things that normal teenagers would do like skip class, do drugs, drink, smoke cigarettes, back talk to teachers, because I knew I would be punished with spankings. 

 

I will say that, sure, spankings are wrong, as so much research proves, but for me, it's the reason I never did drugs, never started smoking, never drank under age, and the reason I stopped stealing. My dad and I were very close as I was growing up. I loved him. Our relationship didn't fall apart until he kicked me out of the house for not going to church one Sunday. So, as far as my experience was, I don't think spankings did me any harm. Just because I think that spankings didn't harm me, but made me a better person, doesn't mean I am a bad person for believing that my experience with spankings was ok. 



#36 Jess

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:44 PM

My parents were opposites, one adamantly opposed to positive parenting and the other opposed to physical discipline. It led to a confusing power struggle and I ended up getting spanked way beyond what's socially acceptable. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've spanked anyone. I learned a lot here about it and my research into circumcision overlapped into it.

#37 Karla

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:46 PM

Very much this. Also as a person who was hit and spanked as a child, quite a bit, it didn't do anything for me other than instilling fear. My father was big into hitting my sister and I (mostly me) if we didn't do well on tests or homework assignments. If I were struggling during a test as a youngster, I couldn't focus on taking the test, I would just focus on the beating I'd receive when I brought home the grade. 

 

Ugh, My dad did the exact same thing to me (but not my brother for some odd reason...), so I know how painful that felt.



#38 Jess

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:47 PM

I just kind of rambled and didn't end up anywhere. I'm against it, but wasn't always.

#39 Sweeney

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:51 PM

To be fair, I wouldn't spank my children either. I have learned that there are much better ways to handle punishments that work. 
 
I guess where I am coming from is, I was not spanked a lot as a kid. And, I was spanked for getting caught stealing from a store. My dad was the only one who spanked me. My mom never had to spank me. I don't know what it was about my mom, but I tried my best to be as good as possible for her because she had her hands full with my sister. My mom also never spanked my sister because my sister fought back when dad did it (could defend herself). My mom would always lose when she tried talking to my sister or yelling at her because she didn't want to spank her because, unlike my sister willing to hit our mom, my mom could never hit my sister, even in defense.
 
As a teenager, I didn't do a lot of the things that normal teenagers would do like skip class, do drugs, drink, smoke cigarettes, back talk to teachers, because I knew I would be punished with spankings. 
 
I will say that, sure, spankings are wrong, as so much research proves, but for me, it's the reason I never did drugs, never started smoking, never drank under age, and the reason I stopped stealing. My dad and I were very close as I was growing up. I loved him. Our relationship didn't fall apart until he kicked me out of the house for not going to church one Sunday. So, as far as my experience was, I don't think spankings did me any harm. Just because I think that spankings didn't harm me, but made me a better person, doesn't mean I am a bad person for believing that my experience with spankings was ok.


I don't think where you're coming from makes sense. You say you think spanking is fine, but also that you'd never do it to your kids. It would be presumptuous of me to read very much into your childhood, but if this is your attitude now I don't see how you can say spanking is responsible for you growing up decent. Surely any other properly applied method of discipline would have been just as, if not more, effective?

#40 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:00 PM

Sure, maybe it could have been more effective, but at the time, I did not know this information. All I knew is I had to behave because if I didn't, I would get spanked. It's all I knew. It's all my dad knew. No one, at the time, harped against spankings and made it into the issue it is today! If I wasn't spanked and some other form of punishment was used, I probably would have a different view of spankings. I agree with that!

 

I would never do it to my kids because of the world views of spankings now. Everyone thinks it's wrong so why would I do it to my child? Just because I may have bad views or opinions doesn't mean I would impose them on my child. I do know there are better ways to deal with bad behavior other than spanking! I also don't want my children to grow up thinking it's ok and getting bashed like I am! I don't think changing my views would make things better for me... I have already dug my grave and everyone already has their views and opinions of me. It is what it is. But, not only would I not spank my child, I also wouldn't teach my child my views on spankings since it is irrelevant.

 

I hope I made some sense here. Basically, I am saying that I understand that my views are deemed wrong by the majority. I can't help that. But I can help my children (which by the way, I will never have children so this really is null and void) not fall into my beliefs and opinions. 



#41 Coops

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:06 PM

Sure, maybe it could have been more effective, but at the time, I did not know this information. All I knew is I had to behave because if I didn't, I would get spanked. It's all I knew. It's all my dad knew. No one, at the time, harped against spankings and made it into the issue it is today! If I wasn't spanked and some other form of punishment was used, I probably would have a different view of spankings. I agree with that!

 

I would never do it to my kids because of the world views of spankings now. Everyone thinks it's wrong so why would I do it to my child? Just because I may have bad views or opinions doesn't mean I would impose them on my child. I do know there are better ways to deal with bad behavior other than spanking! I also don't want my children to grow up thinking it's ok and getting bashed like I am! I don't think changing my views would make things better for me... I have already dug my grave and everyone already has their views and opinions of me. It is what it is. But, not only would I not spank my child, I also wouldn't teach my child my views on spankings since it is irrelevant.

 

I hope I made some sense here. Basically, I am saying that I understand that my views are deemed wrong by the majority. I can't help that. But I can help my children (which by the way, I will never have children so this really is null and void) not fall into my beliefs and opinions. 

That makes sense but it doesn't. Objectively I get what you're saying but choosing not to do something because the majority disagrees is silly. You should choose not to do it because it's wrong and it's been proven ineffective, not because you're worried about being shamed over it.



#42 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:15 PM

I mean, I would rather not teach my children my views on spanking and let them be non-the-wiser, than teach them my views and risk them agreeing with me possibly. Like I said, my experience is the only reason I carry my views. I can't change my experience, but I can make sure my children (that I will never have anyways) don't experience it. 


In my head, my experience disagrees with research. I don't know if that would or could ever change. So, it's better that my children don't experience spankings at all and I go with the majority on how I discipline my children. I don't think my reasoning for why I wouldn't spank my children should matter, as long as I am not spanking my children.


It hasn't been proven ineffective to me personally. That's the problem, well the problem for the majority, not for me.



#43 Nymh

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:23 PM

I mean, I would rather not teach my children my views on spanking and let them be non-the-wiser, than teach them my views and risk them agreeing with me possibly. Like I said, my experience is the only reason I carry my views. I can't change my experience, but I can make sure my children (that I will never have anyways) don't experience it. 


In my head, my experience disagrees with research. I don't know if that would or could ever change. So, it's better that my children don't experience spankings at all and I go with the majority on how I discipline my children. I don't think my reasoning for why I wouldn't spank my children should matter, as long as I am not spanking my children.


It hasn't been proven ineffective to me personally. That's the problem, well the problem for the majority, not for me.

 

I didn't have to say a word to my kids about my views on spanking for them to show me that they absolutely, 100% were NOT ok with it.  They were not even old enough to have proper conversations on the matter.  Honestly, it was their reactions to spanking, and my observations on its application and effectiveness that caused me to change my own opinion on spanking.



#44 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:27 PM

Well, since I won't have children to help me change my view.... I guess that's out of the picture too! 



#45 Coops

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

I mean, I would rather not teach my children my views on spanking and let them be non-the-wiser, than teach them my views and risk them agreeing with me possibly. Like I said, my experience is the only reason I carry my views. I can't change my experience, but I can make sure my children (that I will never have anyways) don't experience it. 


In my head, my experience disagrees with research. I don't know if that would or could ever change. So, it's better that my children don't experience spankings at all and I go with the majority on how I discipline my children. I don't think my reasoning for why I wouldn't spank my children should matter, as long as I am not spanking my children.


It hasn't been proven ineffective to me personally. That's the problem, well the problem for the majority, not for me.

I think your reasoning does matter because it emphasizes that your thought process about the entire thing, which is very illogical. I'm not trying to be mean. Human perception is really bad. We confirm things to be true that aren't all the time, we reassure our shitty stereotypes about people/things and unless you're actively deconstructing why you feel a certain way and introspecting, it makes it difficult to learn. I linked a 50 year meta-analysis proving spanking is bad. But you say that doesn't prove it ineffective to you personally, because you're relying on your own perceptions and biases, instead of objectivity. What would prove it if not science or research?



#46 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

I think I am just a lost cause on this topic honestly. You can't change my mind based on research because whatever research says, I can always say, "but yeah, none of that happened to me and I was spanked." 

 

But, I don't think my changing my mind on the matter would help either. Since my mentality ends with me anyways. I was the exception to the research.


Sorry it took so long to reply, had to go to the store to get cheesy bread! 



#47 Sweeney

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:11 PM

I think I am just a lost cause on this topic honestly. You can't change my mind based on research because whatever research says, I can always say, "but yeah, none of that happened to me and I was spanked." 
 
But, I don't think my changing my mind on the matter would help either. Since my mentality ends with me anyways. I was the exception to the research.

Sorry it took so long to reply, had to go to the store to get cheesy bread!


You're not the exception to the research - the research says that spanking is likely to have a negative effect, and is less effective than other forms of discipline when it comes to the actual modifying of behaviour.

Think about it this way: I could throw a brick at the off switch on my TV to shut it off. Some of the time, when I hit the button just right, it'll work. It's never the best way to do it, though, despite the acceptable results every so often.

#48 Nymh

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:18 PM

I think I am just a lost cause on this topic honestly. You can't change my mind based on research because whatever research says, I can always say, "but yeah, none of that happened to me and I was spanked."


We can all always rely on our own anecdotal evidence.  Not being able to recognize that your own personal experience does not trump decades of research is kind of a lost cause.
 
In my experience, parents are abusive alcoholics, but I turned out functional.  Are abusive alcoholic parents ok?  No. 
In my experience, fathers like to videotape their teenage daughters getting undressed.  Is that ok?  No.
In my experience, women get raped by their boyfriends when they say no to sex.  Is that ok?  No.
 
I am a perfectly functional, and many people would say "fine" adult, but that does not mean that these things are ok.

#49 UnicornSoul

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:35 PM

You're not the exception to the research - the research says that spanking is likely to have a negative effect, and is less effective than other forms of discipline when it comes to the actual modifying of behaviour.

Think about it this way: I could throw a brick at the off switch on my TV to shut it off. Some of the time, when I hit the button just right, it'll work. It's never the best way to do it, though, despite the acceptable results every so often.

 

This is a good way to put it! But again in my defense, just because my experience is the "wrong" or minority way of thinking, doesn't mean I am going to spank my kids as well! Since I am not going to spank my kids, it shouldn't matter what I think as long as I am not teaching my views to my children either. Just like an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic even after 50 years of not drinking, they will always be an alcoholic. No amount of "not drinking" will take that definition away from them. Just like I will always be in my ways for my views, no amount of arguing is going to change my mind. But at least the thought and views stop with me, why should that matter? I am not saying necessarily that the research itself is wrong, I am saying that in my experience, I don't agree with the majority. The problem isn't the research, it's me. 


Also, I am not sitting here saying that I want people to spank their kids either. So, I am not necessarily praising spanking. Just illustrating how my experiences warrant my opinions.

 

And while I may have said some dumb things earlier, specifically about the bible or that kids are worse now than they were back when children were being spanked, I see that those statements themselves are wrong too. But that doesn't change my thought process still.



#50 Nymh

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:36 PM

This is a good way to put it! But again in my defense, just because my experience is the "wrong" or minority way of thinking, doesn't mean I am going to spank my kids as well! Since I am not going to spank my kids, it shouldn't matter what I think as long as I am not teaching my views to my children either. Just like an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic even after 50 years of not drinking, they will always be an alcoholic. No amount of "not drinking" will take that definition away from them. Just like I will always be in my ways for my views, no amount of arguing is going to change my mind. But at least the thought and views stop with me, why should that matter? I am not saying necessarily that the research itself is wrong, I am saying that in my experience, I don't agree with the majority. The problem isn't the research, it's me. 

 

I don't agree that your views don't matter, because they inform your actions and thoughts on a lot of things, but I can respect what you're saying.




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