The World ("happy Holidays" Etc.)
Started by Eggy, Dec 24 2005 03:06 PM
12 replies to this topic
#1
Eggy
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Banned from trading - Do not trade with this user.
Posted 24 December 2005 - 03:06 PM
#2
Alex
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 03:16 PM
Fat ass Twinkie lol.
Anyway, tone it down a bit, let's be civilized here.
I agree though, Merry Christmas.
Anyway, tone it down a bit, let's be civilized here.
I agree though, Merry Christmas.
Edited by Alex, 24 December 2005 - 03:17 PM.
#3
SupermanFTM
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 03:53 PM
I like the emotion 
I agree whole heartedly, and I'm willing to start a revolution with you Alias! *brings out torches and pitchforks*
I agree whole heartedly, and I'm willing to start a revolution with you Alias! *brings out torches and pitchforks*
#4
Ives
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 04:32 PM
I could give a CENSORED less if they think theres a god that somehow created the forefounders of the nation. I'm an atheist, but I am a strong scholar in the Christian faith. People are suprised at the fact I am an atheist, but they work fine with me.
I always wondered "why the hell is the word of 'god' spread everywhere?" Well the fact is Christianity promises a heaven if you simply accept someone as your savior. That sounds like a great deal to me over "You can sleep in on sundays".
So if these CENSORED atheists think the dominat religion deserves it, then I'm strongly considering moving to Christianity. The day I get pissed off is the day they say "One nation, under god and make all non Christians convert or burn in hell and die fastly" since the idea on the amendment says "Freedom of Religion", which would be a more political reason then religious. I could care less if someone says I'm gonna go to hell, but If they are gonna try forcing me, it pisses me off.
I always wondered "why the hell is the word of 'god' spread everywhere?" Well the fact is Christianity promises a heaven if you simply accept someone as your savior. That sounds like a great deal to me over "You can sleep in on sundays".
So if these CENSORED atheists think the dominat religion deserves it, then I'm strongly considering moving to Christianity. The day I get pissed off is the day they say "One nation, under god and make all non Christians convert or burn in hell and die fastly" since the idea on the amendment says "Freedom of Religion", which would be a more political reason then religious. I could care less if someone says I'm gonna go to hell, but If they are gonna try forcing me, it pisses me off.
#5 Guest_Casilla_*
Guest_Casilla_*
Posted 24 December 2005 - 06:30 PM
Alias, you're kidding yourself if you think it's hard to be a Christian in the US.
We've only had 43 strongly vocal Christian Presidents in a row. =P It's only the major selling point for the majority of politicians. It's the only truly acceptable marketing device for anything - our whole country revolves around Christian holidays.
I mean, the Jews are lucky that Chanukah falls on 25th-2nd this year. Because if it's at the end of November, they get no sympathy from anyone. God forbid you're a Muslim - everyone suspects you of terrorism and you must compromise your religious traditions and values in some schools and workplaces. And to hell with you if you're a pagan - it's still legal to lynch you in most of the Southern states.
Taking God out of the pledge is a personally reasonable thing. After all, the Pledge was only created back in the 50's to counter the Godless, Soulless Soviets. It's certainly not heavily ingrained into our history.
Now, as for the whole Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays - I think that's just stupid. After all, it IS Christmas that people are celebrating. Now, since Chanukah falls at a good time this year, most people say Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah. Of course, though, there IS Yule and Kwanzaa at this time, too, so there is politically correctness there. But I really don't think there's ANYONE that's truly offended by it - I think it's just a political move.
But you really shouldn't take it personally, because they've been saying Happy Holidays for decades. It's not that big of a deal to say it - although telling someone you can't say Merry Christmas IS a big deal, though. But the more of a deal you make out of it, the more offensive it is. So just take it all in stride - people MEAN well, and this is the season, after all, for love and compassion. It is the thought - the courtesy - that people are giving you, no matter your religious persuasion.
And no, the US wasn't founded by God or men thinking they were doing God's work. They were just trying to escape the taxes and unfair rule of the British. They didn't want to be second class citizens for living over the pond.
Now, the British themselves could probably claim to be founded by men thinking they were doing God's work. But you won't see this much of a controversy over God there.
We've only had 43 strongly vocal Christian Presidents in a row. =P It's only the major selling point for the majority of politicians. It's the only truly acceptable marketing device for anything - our whole country revolves around Christian holidays.
I mean, the Jews are lucky that Chanukah falls on 25th-2nd this year. Because if it's at the end of November, they get no sympathy from anyone. God forbid you're a Muslim - everyone suspects you of terrorism and you must compromise your religious traditions and values in some schools and workplaces. And to hell with you if you're a pagan - it's still legal to lynch you in most of the Southern states.
Taking God out of the pledge is a personally reasonable thing. After all, the Pledge was only created back in the 50's to counter the Godless, Soulless Soviets. It's certainly not heavily ingrained into our history.
Now, as for the whole Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays - I think that's just stupid. After all, it IS Christmas that people are celebrating. Now, since Chanukah falls at a good time this year, most people say Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah. Of course, though, there IS Yule and Kwanzaa at this time, too, so there is politically correctness there. But I really don't think there's ANYONE that's truly offended by it - I think it's just a political move.
But you really shouldn't take it personally, because they've been saying Happy Holidays for decades. It's not that big of a deal to say it - although telling someone you can't say Merry Christmas IS a big deal, though. But the more of a deal you make out of it, the more offensive it is. So just take it all in stride - people MEAN well, and this is the season, after all, for love and compassion. It is the thought - the courtesy - that people are giving you, no matter your religious persuasion.
And no, the US wasn't founded by God or men thinking they were doing God's work. They were just trying to escape the taxes and unfair rule of the British. They didn't want to be second class citizens for living over the pond.
Now, the British themselves could probably claim to be founded by men thinking they were doing God's work. But you won't see this much of a controversy over God there.
#6
Ives
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Posted 24 December 2005 - 07:29 PM
Alias, you're kidding yourself if you think it's hard to be a Christian in the US.
We've only had 43 strongly vocal Christian Presidents in a row. =P It's only the major selling point for the majority of politicians. It's the only truly acceptable marketing device for anything - our whole country revolves around Christian holidays.
I mean, the Jews are lucky that Chanukah falls on 25th-2nd this year. Because if it's at the end of November, they get no sympathy from anyone. God forbid you're a Muslim - everyone suspects you of terrorism and you must compromise your religious traditions and values in some schools and workplaces. And to hell with you if you're a pagan - it's still legal to lynch you in most of the Southern states.
Taking God out of the pledge is a personally reasonable thing. After all, the Pledge was only created back in the 50's to counter the Godless, Soulless Soviets. It's certainly not heavily ingrained into our history.
Now, as for the whole Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays - I think that's just stupid. After all, it IS Christmas that people are celebrating. Now, since Chanukah falls at a good time this year, most people say Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah. Of course, though, there IS Yule and Kwanzaa at this time, too, so there is politically correctness there. But I really don't think there's ANYONE that's truly offended by it - I think it's just a political move.
But you really shouldn't take it personally, because they've been saying Happy Holidays for decades. It's not that big of a deal to say it - although telling someone you can't say Merry Christmas IS a big deal, though. But the more of a deal you make out of it, the more offensive it is. So just take it all in stride - people MEAN well, and this is the season, after all, for love and compassion. It is the thought - the courtesy - that people are giving you, no matter your religious persuasion.
And no, the US wasn't founded by God or men thinking they were doing God's work. They were just trying to escape the taxes and unfair rule of the British. They didn't want to be second class citizens for living over the pond.
Now, the British themselves could probably claim to be founded by men thinking they were doing God's work. But you won't see this much of a controversy over God there.
Ah. Pardon me, I'm generalising.
But really, who cares? If someone wants to bitch and protest about 'one nation under god', so be it. It's not going to change anything, and it will get some of the closed minded atheists to stop complaining.
Edited by Radon, 24 December 2005 - 07:32 PM.
#7 Guest_Casilla_*
Guest_Casilla_*
Posted 24 December 2005 - 08:50 PM
Simon, are you being sarcastic, because I really can't tell. =P
The Pledge isn't anything the Founders did. =P The Founders never even mentioned God in the Constitution. It seems they wanted SOME separation of Church and State, because that was what their ancestors were fleeing.
I REALLY don't care about God being in the Pledge. I don't. I'll still say the Pledge because A) it is tradition (although I haven't actually had to say it for quite some time) and B) because its true meaning is concerning devotion to the country, which I have plenty of.
But I can UNDERSTAND why someone would not want their kid saying it, especially an atheist/agnostic parent. I really would. Do I think they should be sueing over it? Naw. That's making too much of it - but what they're trying to do is to make a point. Unfortunately, it's falling on deaf ears, so I really don't think he should keep going at it like he is, but whatever.
And I don't think you guys read me quite right. I said that it's alright to say Merry Christmas, because people know what you mean, but on the flip side, it's also okay to say Happy Holidays (and there's nothing WRONG with saying Happy Holidays), because it's the same sentiment.
And Alias, what is wrong with you? I have told you three times on the Debate forums that I'm an atheist, it says so in my profile, and we even talked about it once in PMs. <POKE>
The Pledge isn't anything the Founders did. =P The Founders never even mentioned God in the Constitution. It seems they wanted SOME separation of Church and State, because that was what their ancestors were fleeing.
I REALLY don't care about God being in the Pledge. I don't. I'll still say the Pledge because A) it is tradition (although I haven't actually had to say it for quite some time) and B) because its true meaning is concerning devotion to the country, which I have plenty of.
But I can UNDERSTAND why someone would not want their kid saying it, especially an atheist/agnostic parent. I really would. Do I think they should be sueing over it? Naw. That's making too much of it - but what they're trying to do is to make a point. Unfortunately, it's falling on deaf ears, so I really don't think he should keep going at it like he is, but whatever.
And I don't think you guys read me quite right. I said that it's alright to say Merry Christmas, because people know what you mean, but on the flip side, it's also okay to say Happy Holidays (and there's nothing WRONG with saying Happy Holidays), because it's the same sentiment.
And Alias, what is wrong with you? I have told you three times on the Debate forums that I'm an atheist, it says so in my profile, and we even talked about it once in PMs. <POKE>
Edited by Casilla, 24 December 2005 - 08:51 PM.
#8 Guest_Casilla_*
Guest_Casilla_*
Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:18 PM
No.
I highly doubt that.
Good.
That's where it's ridiculous. [deletes everything I just wrote about God and religion] even if you don't believe in (a) God - respect the guys who did.
Ideally - I'd like it if anybody left-wing, or a hippy, or unpatriotic or a serial criminal be sent off into an island and let them figure it out for themselves.
Oh right, it's called Australia.
No, I agree about left-wing hippies going off somewhere, although Australia's great and are nice people. We should send them to South Africa, instead. Or Antarctica
And when I get home, I'll pull out some books and references for my Founder argument, but right now, I am stranded, so useless in that regard. The Founders were all Christians and God-fearing men, no doubt about that. But there is a definite wall of separation - intentional or not - that they obviously felt should be placed. They wanted freedom of religion - I'm sure MOST of them didn't mean pagans or Hindus or Muslims, etc - they were probably talking about different branches of Christianity and possibly the Jews - but there you are. We have freedom of religion, and not only do we have freedom of religion, but no one has the right to *impose* another religion on another person.
Of course, they were afraid that the Church (either Catholic or Church of England) would come in and interfere with government affairs by using religion - as had happened back in Europe. So they deliberately left no ins or outs for that.
They surely could not have PREDICTED what we see today, but we definitely must try to uphold these laws they put forth. Our country is as strong as it is today not because we're Christians, but because we are a free country who has accepted peoples of all walks of life into our borders (which is why I am against closed borders in times of peace - after all, this is the same deal we went through when the Irish came through, and we are stronger because of the Irish - so let the Mexicans in, and make them pay taxes!) and we have a damn good system to boot.
But most kids don't give two thoughts to something, even if you make them recite something from the day one. I said the Pledge every school day since I was six and yet I became an atheist when I was nine (an ignorant one at that, foolish girl that I was), so obviously I wasn't brainwashed into anything. But it IS something in our society that no one gives two thoughts to - just like the Founders didn't think to make themselves clear on what they wanted out of the country in the future - but later could be a problem.
The idea is not to impose anything on anyone. Alias is pissed because he cannot talk about Jesus during the schoolday. Okay. That is completely opposite to where I come from, where anyone who was NOT Christian, half the school was after them to convert them. We had a poor Muslim girl that had a gaggle of cruifix-wearing girls following her all the time, always trying to "save" her. Everyone had a knowing smile, as if in on a joke, around the Jews. The Buddhists were outright laughed at, and the pagans - those brave enough to come forth - were harassed. One girl even got her car tires slashed and the words "Witch Bitch Is Going To Hell" wrote on her windshield. And me, as an atheist, was thought of as a fraud just trying to get attention - I had seniors...SENIORS...seventeen/eighteen years old...coming up to me and going "You're crazy. The world's only ten thousand years old."
@#(*&$(*&%&*$&
So you can see, Alias, how it is hard for me to believe that being a Christian is a very hard thing to be. Your school allows after school Bible Study Clubs, does it not? Even Vegas allows those.
#9
Kyle
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Legit.
Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:23 PM
I got into a HUGE debate with my Civics teacher on this a few weeks ago. I think she was close to sending me to the office, because I would not let it go. She kept saying the country was founded on the beliefs of the founders of our country, and that since that was such a long time ago, things should change nowI just want to see what people think about this. I feel like sharing my opinion anyways.
To the point, I CENSOREDing hate this world to death. It is so wrong, and people follow it everyday. Being a christian in this world is getting harder everyday. There taking the word "God" out of the CENSOREDing pledge. They act like it's a bad thing when the whole goddam country was founded on Him.
I was talking to my Jewish friend on friday (Josh the Jew!Exactly. There is no equality and should never be - especially in the Western nations. So you came from an Islamic, or Jewish nation? I guess in your case it's too bad that you immigrated here because in return, the least you can do is tolerate simple words.
) and I asked him if it offends him in any way when people say Christmas, or refer to the holidays as Christmas. He said it doesnt offend him in any way, because people have the Freedom of Speech. Kind of sounds familiar....some kind of Amendment...oh yea...Its the first!That squarely backs up Alias's point. Its become hard to be a christian in america, especially if your not republican, because our wonderful president makes it seem as though if you dont vote for him, then your not a "True Christian". Religion and politics should not be associated one bit. Religion is a belief that some people choose to have, and some people choose not to have, and it should not infringe on others daily life. If you dont want to say God in the pledge, then shut your darn mouth!Alias, you're kidding yourself if you think it's hard to be a Christian in the US.
We've only had 43 strongly vocal Christian Presidents in a row. =P It's only the major selling point for the majority of politicians. It's the only truly acceptable marketing device for anything - our whole country revolves around Christian holidays.
Edited by kylebigmac09, 24 December 2005 - 09:29 PM.
#10
Kyle
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Legit.
Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:29 PM
Yea, I wasnt going against you at all. I was just using your post as a starting point for that part of my argument.
I hope you realise that I was saying they should tolerate it [indirectly yes, because it's freedom of speech].
#11 Guest_Casilla_*
Guest_Casilla_*
Posted 24 December 2005 - 09:30 PM
LoL, no, no, I understand the conservative point - they are coming in and leeching. But this is something that has been repeated in history over and over and over again. Everyone always goes, "The [insert immigrant group of the day] are going to ruin our economy, etc etc etc", but in every single case, we've come out stronger (CHEAP LABOR, WHY do you think corporations are outsourcing?!)
Now, right NOW, illegal immigrants are leeching. We are making it worse. If, per se, we made them pay TAXES, etc, then it really is okay in my book. They would be contributing to society, who cares where they came from. Businesses would be better off for it, and that means more jobs overall.
We should just give it up and annex Mexico already, sheesh, though. Mexico gets like $100 million a year from US immigrants sending money back home (you have to hand it to the Mexicans, though - not only do they get the lowest paying jobs, but they also send half of that back home to family).
#12
Vegas
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Why So Serious?
Posted 24 December 2005 - 10:10 PM
yes I agree with alias'z point, u dont see christians gettin mad at the jews when they were their hats or when hindu people have their turbans or red dots on their heads(dont flame me for being ignorant), or when the muslim women wear their concealing robes because we have respect for them.the christian's church motto is like "we are always welcoming"-they encourage other people from other religions to come into our house and dont care what their wearing now but when people say that Christ is in the word christmas and get offended and want to change it, it just opens the door for christians to go and critizice what the other religions wear...we accept what u guys do no u guys gotta respect what we doThat's completely besides the point. My point was that how come you can talk about all these other religions, yet one in particular offends everyone. I don't care if we have Bible clubs, that's all the more stupid if you ask me.
dont b confused if I didnt make sense because I dont think I did and im a lil sleepy because I went out for sum last minute shoppin
#13
Sakura
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Posted 26 December 2005 - 09:19 AM
I believe alias's point is the fact that we're so interested in not offending the non-christians, that we've taken away the rights of Christian. I know that in my school we were taught all about buddhism, hinduism, and the muslims. However, we had to skip the chapter about Christianity even though it was a MAJOR part to the development of many societies.
We had to be taught evolution as FACT, even though its only a theory.
Under God out of the pledge (notice it doesn't say "Christian God")
Part of the reason that our founders left for America was to flee religious persecution. Now, in current times, if you are a Christian, you are not even allowed to speak of your religion without someone screaming and whining that you're oppressing them.
Also, it ridiculous to believe that all non-christian religions have it tough. Muslims DO, with the resent events, but the others are believed to be "cultured" and "different". They are allowed to teach their religion in school/court/etc... And they often try to convert people to their beliefs, in my experience sometimes quite pushy, without getting any flack. Christians try to do any of the above? They are considered pushy, ignorant, and just a total effin snob that doesn't deserve to ever be listened to again because "we're being persecuted!!!!!11111 *whine*"
In sum, those are my personal beliefs, and what I believe alias is trying to say. If you don't agree, meh, I don't really care, you're only one voter. If you do, same goes for you, but brownie points anyways.
We had to be taught evolution as FACT, even though its only a theory.
Under God out of the pledge (notice it doesn't say "Christian God")
Part of the reason that our founders left for America was to flee religious persecution. Now, in current times, if you are a Christian, you are not even allowed to speak of your religion without someone screaming and whining that you're oppressing them.
Also, it ridiculous to believe that all non-christian religions have it tough. Muslims DO, with the resent events, but the others are believed to be "cultured" and "different". They are allowed to teach their religion in school/court/etc... And they often try to convert people to their beliefs, in my experience sometimes quite pushy, without getting any flack. Christians try to do any of the above? They are considered pushy, ignorant, and just a total effin snob that doesn't deserve to ever be listened to again because "we're being persecuted!!!!!11111 *whine*"
In sum, those are my personal beliefs, and what I believe alias is trying to say. If you don't agree, meh, I don't really care, you're only one voter. If you do, same goes for you, but brownie points anyways.
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