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#26 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:50 PM

Okay, wanna be a bitch about christians? Atheists are the MOST CLOSE MINDED PEOPLE I HAVE EVER MET. Really, I know many of them that will not accept anything. Nothing! "No I'm atheist I don't believe in a religion", it's like an autmated respone =/


Well, m'dear, that's kinda the point of being an atheist, isn't it? =D

And I will agree with Athean and Alias, there are a lot of close-minded...erm...butt-hole atheists out there. I despise them.

#27 Alex

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:52 PM

Alias calm down.
And you can't prove God exists as much as we can't prove he doesnt.

#28 Frizzle

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:56 PM

I laugh at both sides attempts to out wit each other in a battle of narrow mindness and flamming. Neither sides are right OR wrong. Get that?

#29 Alex

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 04:03 PM

There is something I have always wondered. In every topic, no matter where, or who's in it, if there exists a chrisitan, every non chrisitan in that debate seems to always attack them. I would gather a few examples if I could, but I just always wondered why that was. A bad thing about being a christian around others.

People posted their opinions and they are entitled to them. You started questioninig their opinions. No one attacked you.

How about we get back to how the world ends?
I THINK it will end either by Nuclear weapons, or some sort of other mass destruction weapons.
Meteors, aliens, is also possible.
I think we'll be almost dead for the sun theory.

Edited by Alex, 02 January 2006 - 04:08 PM.


#30 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 04:04 PM

Oh goodness, this is even better, how fun :)

Okay, first off where in the hell in this whole topic did I say "It must not be true". I'm completely lost in what the hell your talking about, because that was the ahteist over there saying that, not me. Now, listen closely, I'll put in caps just in case your blind. STOP SAYING SHIT WITHOUT BACKUP. Get that? I'm tired of hearing "it has been proven wrong", where!? At least I provided logical evidence <_<

Your hiliarous. We think were powerful? Please, your worse them my 7 year old sister with these constant lies. You have NO room to talk, as you have never been a christian and have no clue how we think. If you knew anything, you would have never EVER said that. Oh yea, can you prove there is no God? No. =/

Don't you think it's better to at least believe that your going to go somewhere instead of believing in shit? I would rather think I actually have a meaning on this earth...

If someone is not strong in their religion, there better off not even calling themselves what ever their term may be. And what about you? Once again you have no room to talk. Your sitting here talking all this shit about how my religion is nothing but bullshit and your's is the right one....

Okay, wanna be a bitch about christians? Atheists are the MOST CLOSE MINDED PEOPLE I HAVE EVER MET. Really, I know many of them that will not accept anything. Nothing! "No I'm atheist I don't believe in a religion", it's like an autmated respone =/

You seriously have a sterotyping problem. You think every chrisitan in the world is like the one at your school. See, if you were a chrisitan you would understand this. There are many different types of christians, not to many, but some most people don't even consider christian.

ROTFL HAHAHHAHAHHA. Okay, im literally cracking up at that last paragraph. First off, please show me where God killed people in the Old Testament. Second off, once again talking about something we have no clue about, God killed his son so instead of all of us going to hell, we had a chance, which some people like you abuse and treat like shit.

So, please educate yourself before coming back here.

DUDE. I'm glad I'M getting in trouble for flaming with this BS going down. You are laughing, calling him a bitch, saying he believes in shit, and basically being a condescending jerk. That's not a debate, that's a flame. :/

Yeah, atheists can't PROVE that God doesn't exist, but you can't prove he DOES exist. If I said there was a spiritual giant frog in the sky or a leprechaun telling me to burn things, well, I wouldn't be able to prove it, but you wouldn't be able to disprove it. So should we all automatically believe me?

If something cannot be proved either way, it makes more sense to assume it isn't true. So don't call him a bitch.

Also, about God killing people, uh, in the Great Flood God killed almost everyone in the entire WORLD?

I laugh at both sides attempts to out wit each other in a battle of narrow mindness and flamming. Neither sides are right OR wrong. Get that?

I believe Frizz has just won the debate. *gives him a prize*

Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 04:05 PM.


#31 Vegas

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 05:05 PM

I don't feel like getting into this, but I'm sure what scope meant to say abou prophesies was not that they are made UP after the events occur, but that they can be interpreted many different ways. It's called retrofitting.

thank you that is what I meant


Anyways, the great flood, God gave people a chance. Just like he is doing now, he gives everyone a chance to believe in him, and not be a sinner. The whole world was literally full of sinners, the same thing is going to happen soon when the tribulation comes...

I am catholic and I say that the great flood of noah is another one of those heavily exagerrated stories in the bible just like the "plagues"sent by God in Moses
based on a heavy discussion we had in my religion class where my teacher, who is one of the most faithful catholic person I've ever met agreed with this and an interesting show I saw on tv it is very unlikely that that story is true....I dont wanna go into all the details but know this...back then the world didnt have internet and have access to communicate with each other across the world and so how would the bible writers know that it flooded the "whole" world?also in those times the world was probably centralized around a huge place where noah lived eg.bablyon and if it flooded that place(I forgot where it took place)people would say that it flooded the whole world becuz they didnt know how big the world really was and probably have thought their land took up most of earth like old scholars thinkin everythin revovled around the sun.so the flood was most likely a flood like hurricane katrina in a big area and wiped out aloota people and was exaggerated to be world wide becuz it was one of the most populated regions known to them.
theres more stuff I can say but im tired and if u really want me to go into the details go post

my point is to b a more educated and open-minded christian.u have to accept the fact that
the bible isnt all true and u cant go blindly flamin people because they say there is no god and u say there is using "stories" from the bible
any yes I agree with most of the stuff casilla said about faith being a heavy factor
im a little sleepy so if my post didnt make sense or seemed stupid,it was because of me being sleepy
remember no hate

Edited by Scope, 02 January 2006 - 05:08 PM.


#32 Frizzle

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 05:49 PM

The whole world was literally full of sinners, the same thing is going to happen soon when the tribulation comes...


When the world does end, I bet there's gonna be a million people itching to say "I told you so". That would probably be the best moment on Earth for that X amount of people. Period.

#33 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:06 PM

God spoke through the prophets, however, and to err is human. Do you think maybe that through the translations and retranslations and interpretations and all those damned Teen Adventure Study Bibles (is it just me or should these just go away?) meant to appeal to the common man and the views and preconceptions of men through 2000 years, that maybe things coulda been switched around or exaggerated to prove points as translations weakened the Bible in other places?

#34 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:09 PM

Are you Protestant? or Nondenominational, or Catholic or anything?

Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 06:09 PM.


#35 Frizzle

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:23 PM

I have a huge hunch he's a fundamentalist Catholic.

#36 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:27 PM

He's not Catholic.

Anyway, the only version of the Old Testament that I'll put any stock into is the Torah.

#37 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:32 PM

Deh, I got sidetracked. What I mean to say is, Christians think Catholics are going to hell because they don't interpret the Bible correctly. Catholics the same of them. Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Charismatics, all different enough through their interpretation of the Bible and practices that they are not the same name anymore, yet they are all Christians. Which go to heaven, which will be saved in the End? What about Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Jews or Mormons who try to live good lives but believe in a different way of life? What about Hindus and Taoists who are fundamentally good but don't really hear that much of your superior religion, Alias? Which are doomed to suffer forever in hell for denying your God, because He did not correct each sect of Christianity's mild mistakes, or because Christians did not spread His word as far as they should have?

What about people who believe they have reasonable doubts? Who would love to accept Jesus but feel no stirrings in their soul upon reflection? What of them with good intentions whom God has not touched? A few pretty words and some miracles dating back two thousand years which can no longer be proven just simply aren't enough to convince people. Where are the miracles for our generation? Why does God leave his children to wrestle in dust searching in vain for an oasis of faith? He doesn't appear 'anymore' assuming he had before. Why not? He may test us but we are weak-spirited and stupid people, this you know, Alias. Why is he letting us doubt him when our intentions are good?

Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 06:37 PM.


#38 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:33 PM

Lol, no I don't consider catholics christians.

I'm Protestant. I attend Calvary Chapel, a quite famous church in the states.
Either way, you have one general rule to believe in Jesus and do his teachings, as well as pray. You do that and your good to go.


<laugh> Catholics are the original definition of Christianity. Anyone who believes that Christ is the Savior and Messiah is a Christian. ;)

And the Torah is apart of the Hebrew Bible, and the Jews are not so enthuastic about Jesus as you are. ;)

Edited by Casilla, 02 January 2006 - 06:34 PM.


#39 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:40 PM

*nod*@Casilla. the fundamentalist Christians at my school believe that Catholics are liars who added random stuff onto the Bible. They don't believe me when I say that Catholics were the original which nondenominational and Protestant people sprouted from... in fact, in the Almanac it says Catholicism and Orthodox Greek are the only Christian faiths started directly by Jesus. All others have listed, human, starters.

I edited my post by the way. I'm getting emotional. It's depressing when the apocalypse comes and you're an Existentialist.

Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 06:41 PM.


#40 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:47 PM

in fact, in the Almanac it says Catholicism and Orthodox Greek are the only Christian faiths started directly by Jesus. All others have listed, human, starters.


Unfortunately, Jesus did not directly start any churches. Rather, his Apostles did.

And in addition to the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Gnostics also have the claim to fame of being started by Apostles, although they died out in the fourth century.


I don't believe catholics as christians because of the fact they worship mary. Not once in the Bible does it say anything about worshiping her, or her being any sort of divine being.


And thus you show your ignorance of the Catholic faith.

You should try to learn and respect the other Christian faiths. You're really all in this together.

#41 Vegas

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:57 PM

Lol, no I don't consider catholics christians.

I'm Protestant. I attend Calvary Chapel, a quite famous church in the states.
Either way, you have one general rule to believe in Jesus and do his teachings, as well as pray. You do that and your good to go.

how can u say that?catholisicm was the first church started by the apostles of jesus and so u say the church that the chosen follwers of jesus created don't believe in jesus??idiot
and protestant is a branch of anglican which SEPARATED from catholisiscm because the king henry or watever wanted divorce
so I can say I protestants arent REAL christians because they didnt follow the true catholic/christian ways but I wont because I am NOT as IGNORANT as some people

Edited by Scope, 02 January 2006 - 06:59 PM.


#42 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 06:59 PM

What do you mean ignorance? In the new testament, when John and all them were writing to the other churches started by the apostles, all his lessons and teachings were straight from the Bible. None of them were near close to some of the things other churches like the catholics teach.


I won't get into Johnannie beliefs or the nature of the Fourth Gospel. But you must also remember that the Catholics have their Vulgate - a different version of the Bible than the KJV. And much older at that.

A lot of Catholic traditions are, well, just that - traditions. They do not contradict anything that it is in the Bible, they just add to it. That's their perogative - they aren't conflicting with the Bible at all. There is honour and pride in the traditions - traditions that may have well stemmed from the Apostles themselves, and other early Church founders.

They are like the Jews, in that respect. The Jews have a lot of traditions and practices that are technically not in their "Bible", but are considered non-biblical canon. In other words, you don't HAVE to follow it - normally only rabbis know them - but it's good to do so.

To say that the Catholics aren't Christians is laughable. They were, for 1500 years, the definition of being Christian. They follow their Bible and their traditions, and they are inherently Good people. It is just, from time to time, they have done Bad things, just like every other government or religious institution. ;)

I am not, however, an expert on Catholic traditions. I do not know which are imparted from their Bible and which are handed down from who knows where.

#43 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:03 PM

God said in the Bible, I think quoted from Jesus in the new testament, that everyone had the chance to meet God. No matter what condition they may be in, everyone here's about God at least once. And when they do, his magic set's in and opens there curiosity to Him. You don't know how many times I have seen new christians that became because of this.

You thing God is so mean that he would allow those people to not hear him and goto hell? You think our God, the loving God, would go so far as to do that? The one who sent his son to earth to die because of something we did?

You know why Mormons and Witnesses live good lives? Because they are told that in order to get to heaven, you must 'earn' your way there. Which is of course a load of bs, and is why I have no sympanthy for them.

One of the biggest things God gave us was the freemdom to choose. You choose to doubt Him. You choose to believe in what ever you want. Right now you know He is out there, and yet you are doubting it. It's those kind of people that are the ones that goto hell.
I don't believe catholics as christians because of the fact they worship mary. Not once in the Bible does it say anything about worshiping her, or her being any sort of divine being.

... *opens mouth* *closes* You read like a Church bulletin. Honestly. Are you even thinking about this or do you just have an FAQ booklet open ready to type?

Firstly, what is wrong with wanting to be a good person and helping people and wanting to earn your way into heaven? You're basically saying that you can kill, lie, and steal, and then shrug and say "well I'm Christian," and have a better chance of getting into heaven than some heathen Mormon who hopes to please God by leading a good and pious life, and going to church and basically having no ill feelings about anyone. Great. Lovely. That's one fun religion.

I chose not to blindly follow anything because there isn't one scrap of evidence which holds the Bible as higher authority than any other religion with a religious text in the world - period. They all have beliefs and traditions and miracles and a spirit of brotherhood towards people joining in their religion, and they all share the treasure of having a hope and a purpose driving them towards being better people. Why why why must you place yourself above them?

Also, even putting aside what I believe is common sense and returning to my past, when I had not come to terms with doubt. If God wanted me to believe, why wouldn't he listen when I was young and prayed to him to please show me the way to believe? When I was younger than ten I cried and cried because I wasn't moved like other people in church and I ached for the feeling that other people felt and I pleaded with God to let me feel it too. I was not doubtful or spiteful or holier-than-thou. I was a kid, dumb but lonely, afraid of going to hell and afraid of not being fulfilled by missing out on my savior. Don't think you know my past, Alias. I'm not filled with doubt of your lord, I'm filled with lust for knowledge. I want to know about your faith as well as the faiths of others, to know where my light is. I'm different now than I was then, sure, but I still am open to any persuasion any deity wishes for me to stumble upon.

Catholics don't worship Mary. They may pray to Mary as well as other saints as patrons in small matters and confessions, but she is not a part of God nor is she very far above other saints (She's called the Queen, but really that's nothing).

If Catholics have nothing to do with the New Testament, then why are more than half of our sermons from the New Testament? Riddle me that.


Unfortunately, Jesus did not directly start any churches. Rather, his Apostles did.

And in addition to the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Gnostics also have the claim to fame of being started by Apostles, although they died out in the fourth century.
And thus you show your ignorance of the Catholic faith.

You should try to learn and respect the other Christian faiths. You're really all in this together.

Aha, I was sure there was another one, thanks for reminding me. ^_^ You're fun.

Edited by jillian, 02 January 2006 - 07:08 PM.


#44 Vegas

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:13 PM

As I said before, I believe what the Bible teaches and the church teaches. The world says that chrisitans came from catholics, when in reality the Bible has nothing to do with catholic beliefs. And shame to you for adding onto the word of God. That makes it all the worse.

Like I said, I never heard John or Peter telling the other churches to worship Mary. That's what the whole chrisitan faith is almost based on, everything in the new testament.

well mary is the MOTHER of jesus and the vessel used by God so I think she deserves some praise being the holder that made jesus.and the four that you were talkin about john and the other 3 were considered disciples of jesus himself so they followed in his teachings around his life which was passed down.

#45 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:15 PM

The catholic churches I have seen before, which is many, all did worship her. That's like a very BIG nono to Jesus. To even recognize her as something spirtual is bad. It may sound odd, but if you were a christian you would understand.


No Catholic Church worships Mary. Trust me. You're misinterpreting the difference between worship and asking for guidance. They look up to her a - for a lack of a better term - a role model on how to be a good Christian, just like the other Saints. Jillian is right, Mary is like a Saint, and thus can be - erm - petitioned to, I suppose. But they do not worship her at all. They would get kicked out of the Church for that, because that is idolizing. ;)

Edited by Casilla, 02 January 2006 - 07:16 PM.


#46 Vegas

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:17 PM

NO! That's what Jesus does not want you to think. Yea mabye she deserves 1/100 of a credit, but not to see her any better then the diciples. There better off worshiping the diciples as they did way more works then she ever did.

the disciples were chosen by jesus.mary was chosen by God himself.she was the bridge between God and us to bear his child.im not sayin who's more important than the other..there both important..im sayin she deserves atleast something.without mary there wouldnt b jesus

#47 Ives

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:21 PM

Oh goodness, this is even better, how fun :)

Okay, first off where in the hell in this whole topic did I say "It must not be true". I'm completely lost in what the hell your talking about, because that was the ahteist over there saying that, not me. Now, listen closely, I'll put in caps just in case your blind. STOP SAYING SHIT WITHOUT BACKUP. Get that? I'm tired of hearing "it has been proven wrong", where!? At least I provided logical evidence <_<

Your hiliarous. We think were powerful? Please, your worse them my 7 year old sister with these constant lies. You have NO room to talk, as you have never been a christian and have no clue how we think. If you knew anything, you would have never EVER said that. Oh yea, can you prove there is no God? No. =/

Don't you think it's better to at least believe that your going to go somewhere instead of believing in shit? I would rather think I actually have a meaning on this earth...

If someone is not strong in their religion, there better off not even calling themselves what ever their term may be. And what about you? Once again you have no room to talk. Your sitting here talking all this shit about how my religion is nothing but bullshit and your's is the right one....

Okay, wanna be a bitch about christians? Atheists are the MOST CLOSE MINDED PEOPLE I HAVE EVER MET. Really, I know many of them that will not accept anything. Nothing! "No I'm atheist I don't believe in a religion", it's like an autmated respone =/

You seriously have a sterotyping problem. You think every chrisitan in the world is like the one at your school. See, if you were a chrisitan you would understand this. There are many different types of christians, not to many, but some most people don't even consider christian.

ROTFL HAHAHHAHAHHA. Okay, im literally cracking up at that last paragraph. First off, please show me where God killed people in the Old Testament. Second off, once again talking about something we have no clue about, God killed his son so instead of all of us going to hell, we had a chance, which some people like you abuse and treat like shit.

So, please educate yourself before coming back here.


Well I could care less if a 15 year old wants to laugh at me, or eLaugh whichever your doing. :thumbsup: And calling me a bitch makes me feel like the better man in the situation, since the good lord cant come up with anything better for you to provide?

And I clearly said I might as well be bias in the situation so how about you all of my post too until the good book says not. Frizzles right, debating about religion is dumb. Im too uptight to be a christian. I wish that hobo on the street had the real religion going, where when you die you either live in candy world or become candy depending on your morales. that would be awesome.

#48 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:23 PM

Well that may be the wrong word, but the point is the only one you need to be looking up to is Jesus. Your better off asking your dog for guidance rather then mary.


Now that's a horrible thing to say, considering the numerous times that Jesus praises her.

#49 Vegas

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:23 PM

Not true, I mean God could have just had Jesus appear if he wanted. Mary is only a person in a small story in the Bible.

jesus was man and a mortal therefore he would need a mortal vessel to bear him or else he would be called a divine/spiritualal being like the holy spirit and couldnt have died for us becuz he wouldnt b human.

#50 jillian

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 07:23 PM

When did I say that doing good was bad? 0_0

I mean that, saying you have to earn your way to heaven, is one of the biggest lies I have ever seen. Sure you can do good stuff, God respects that, but without him in your heart, how can he do anything for you?

There you go, you choose to doubt Him, end of story nothing further needs to be said.

Choosing to not believe God exists is a horrible way to learn about my religion. When you were a kid, that wasn't God's fault, that was your's. You were the one not believing he was caring for you. You thought to yourself that he didn't care, that if he wasn't showing you the 'way' you might as well forget about him. Did you even attempt to ask him into your heart?

The catholic churches I have seen before, which is many, all did worship her. That's like a very BIG nono to Jesus. To even recognize her as something spirtual is bad. It may sound odd, but if you were a christian you would understand.

by the way, everything I have said in this topic has come straight from me and what I have read in the Bible. I would assume it would be the same as church...

But Mormons et all DO have God in their heart, and they mean the best for the world and for their God! Why would God deny them salvation just for having a few ideas wrong about it?

.... You're just as unforgiving as the God you say you love, Alias. If a child isn't given faith in their innocence, is that child to blame? Why would God send me to hell because I wasn't fulfilled when young, and so I grew and branched out? Why would a loving and forgiving God send any creature to Hell? I have not consciously rejected him, nor has any Agnostic, Jew, Muslim, Mormon, or Buddhist. I have just found your faith lacking. God has not offered sufficient evidence to convince his children. Tehy do not reject him out of malice or spite as Lucifer did in the Bible, they simply do not accept him because He has not given them means of faith in life.

I simply do not understand it. It is still free will if you meet your children and show them your power and do not mislead them in any other way, then ask them to follow you. There are so many misleading factors and so many good-hearted people going to hell if your beliefs are right and if your God is real. But if he is, let him strike me down now because a God who does not offer his face to his children and allow them to see his glory and accept him from there, but then sends them to hell for eternity based on performance in a seventy-year interval, as they are surrounded by 'sin' and doubt and questions everywhere, is not a loving God. A loving God does not mislead his children and punish them for eternity because they were never given a chance to look at him. Sorry.

The Catholic churches you 'have seen before' must obviously have been mistaken by you, because no Catholic church in the world worships Mary. Sorry again.


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