51 replies to this topic

[MsRose]

So, if you see a couple of old threads in which you feel you could add something, you should either not do it, or do it in an unnecessary long post?
And arti, your face is spamming.

Specifically digging up old threads because you ran out of new things to post one sentence answers on would be spamming. Casually finding an old topic and bringing up a new point in it wouldn't be.

[Drakonid]

So, in the case I find multiple interesting old threads, I should only post in one, because I would otherwise be spamming?

[MsRose]

So, in the case I find multiple interesting old threads, I should only post in one, because I would otherwise be spamming?

You can post in as many as you wish as long as your responses are thoughtful and meaningful. Simply posting one sentence with no depth that someone else pretty much already said in a five year old topic only clogs up the forums.

[Drakonid]

So you are admitting that reviving an 5 year old thread with one sentence is not necessarily spamming?

[MsRose]

So you are admitting that reviving an 5 year old thread with one sentence is not necessarily spamming?

It's hard to say anything truly meaningful in one sentence, but of you manage to, then no one will grumble at you for it.

[artificial]

You guys are spamming.

[MsRose]

You guys are spamming.

No, we're having a debate about what is qualified as spam. You sir, are making multiple posts that say the same thing. Congratulations on being a failure and a hypocrite all in one.

[iloveorange]

spam = small pointless annoying messages

it was hardly spam

Why thank you Chaos. It's good to see people like you on codex.

[Naded]

It should be a place to learn empathy and remorse. At least for violent criminals. If someone gets busted for weed or some shit like that, well then I guess its just plainly time to do.

[iloveorange]

iloveorange =


p.s - no one likes a spammer.

All short sentences.

It's the combination of bringing up five year old topics, answering in short sentences and doing all that with multiple times.

Your going to say i'm spamming with short sentences, have you seen yours? None of these even apply to the topic, how do you feel about prison?

[Gee]

Personally I'm ruthless against criminals, especially murderers and rapists and they should rot there and think about what they did. It should be a punishment... a long, lifelong punishment.
I guess in the long run it can be a rehab because the criminals can think about what they did ..

[iloveorange]

You can post in as many as you wish as long as your responses are thoughtful and meaningful. Simply posting one sentence with no depth that someone else pretty much already said in a five year old topic only clogs up the forums.

Have you actually taken a look at my responses before you go off and pretty much label them as useless? I'm going to add a new topic about this, let's not waste our time in the wrong thread.

[MsRose]

Your going to say i'm spamming with short sentences, have you seen yours? None of these even apply to the topic, how do you feel about prison?

they apply to the material of the responses that were given. I only posted a short sentence because I wasn't hoping to have a huge debate about it. All my responses were defending my position, which is relevant to the comments that were made to me. Short responses don't necessarily mean that they are spam. It is all a combination of other factors as well.

As far as prison goes, I am positive that not all harden criminals are able to be refit to live in society. They may change significantly while they are in prison, but going back home and into the environment is much to tempting for a lot of them. Not to mention the majority of offenders in prison are those who are drug addicts. Being addicted to drugs is extremely complex and takes extreme steps and lifestyle changes in order to avoid. Prisons are a breeding ground for poor behavior, and I believe that many of them come out worse than they were. Those who have been in there long enough don't even know how to function in normal society. So I guess to answer the original question, I think prison is mostly just punishment. People have to want to change to be rehabilitated, and the majority of them don't. Therefore, it would be a waste of taxpayer money.

[flashraven]

Rehab would be a better option, going the harder away will not cure the root of the problem.

[Volition]

rehab for non-violent offenses, punishment for violent offenses. Canada needs to bring back capital punishment for murderers

[Justinnn]

Personally I'm ruthless against criminals, especially murderers and rapists and they should rot there and think about what they did. It should be a punishment... a long, lifelong punishment.
I guess in the long run it can be a rehab because the criminals can think about what they did ..

Such a primitive mentality. Hypothetically, a man who murders few for the sake of his own enjoyment is equal by your standard to a man who murders one for the sake of his own defense. Not all justice is just, and not all murderers are immoral and deserve permanent 'punishment' to think about what they did. Even more so, prison is hardly punishment, as most prisons even support internet access these days.

Also, the human mind doesn't work like that, at all. One cannot just 'think about their choices' and suddenly better themselves from them. Rehabilitation works from the literalremoval of the psychological traits that makes a person capable of violent crime. Restoration of morality and ethics, or the removal of immorality, either way, it's not an individual effort. Hence why re-offending rates are so pro-dominant. This isn't American History X, your prison time won't make you any more empathetic towards black people, metaphorically speaking. Incarcerating a person also drains more money than simply killing them. When society embraces efficiency over morality, capitalistic progression can be made.

As far as prison goes, I am positive that not all harden criminals are able to be refit to live in society.

Harden? As in the stereotypical tattooed brute that inhabits a prison? What are you even saying? Of course rehabilitation isn't a completely, fundamentally assured process. Of course it has error, and of course an individual can feign change without actually possessing any. Change cannot be directed, and is the direct summation of an individuals experience. As such, automatically saying 'rehabilitation isn't completely successful, so y'know. No." is wrong. Rehabilitation in and of itself should be done on a completely reactive basis, not a proactive one where an individual can be 'rehabilitated' and then placed in a scenario to re-offend, as their previous crimes have already desensitized them to it. An individual who commits a crime for a more morally acceptable reason (Example: A man who finds his wife of decades cheating on him, and attacks the cheater, unintentionally resulting in death) Can obviously be rehabilitated, as their emotions were rational, their mere state of mind wasn't. An individual who commits violent crime against people for next to no reason (Example: A serial killer specifically targeting young children for the sake of gratification and sadism) can presumptively not be rehabilitated, or is unfit to. Much easier to simply kill the individual.

They may change significantly while they are in prison, but going back home and into the environment is much to tempting for a lot of them.

I doubt a rapist automatically wants to rape every women he sees. Simply because you put them into a situation where they can commit a crime, doesn't provide enough merit for it to be a risky process. Capability =/= certainty. If that were so, the person would simply recommit the crime in prison.

Not to mention the majority of offenders in prison are those who are drug addicts. Being addicted to drugs is extremely complex and takes extreme steps and lifestyle changes in order to avoid.

This is like saying the majority of Christians are fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is extremely complex and takes extreme steps and lifestyle changes in order to avoid. Simply because you can diagnose a particular minority has having a certain social trait, doesn't make it factual. You should accept that law doesn't legalize drugs based upon health, they legalize them based upon social application. A fair few legal drugs are extremely harmful in mild dosage.

Prisons are a breeding ground for poor behavior, and I believe that many of them come out worse than they were.

A) Prisons are obsolete.

B) You believe? In a structured debate, "I believe" is another way of saying "Without any facts, I'm just fucking assuming that..."

C) There's plenty of individuals who come out of prison socially improved. Simply because there's a ratio of better and worse, and a worse portion exists, doesn't provide merit for the objective redundancy of prisoners.

Those who have been in there long enough don't even know how to function in normal society.

When normal society is equally isolated? Social ineptness isn't restricted to prisoners, and is definitely treatable. Rejecting an individuals placement in society for lack of functionality is imprudent.

So I guess to answer the original question, I think prison is mostly just punishment. People have to want to change to be rehabilitated, and the majority of them don't. Therefore, it would be a waste of taxpayer money.

Prisons cost more tax payer money than any of its alternatives, save for contemporary capital punishment. We assume with our technological advances that our ethical standpoints are more justified, when they're in-fact the dominant source of taxpayer waste. Also, quit speaking for the majority when you're in-fact, a minority with no association to the majority. I have no reasoning to believe that out of every criminal in every prison across the world, that most of them don't want to change. Rehabilitation can be done with, or without the prisoners original intent.

Rehab would be a better option, going the harder away will not cure the root of the problem.

The root of the problem? As in, people committing crime? This may just be the most blatantly wrong post ever, or I'm missing something.

No, I'm not. It's the most blatantly wrong post ever.

[iloveorange]

Justin, I feel like your turning into netbususer. hah, I really enjoyed reading all your responses to the quotes.

[Justinnn]

Justin, I feel like your turning into netbususer. hah, I really enjoyed reading all your responses to the quotes.

I.. I don't even know who that is. D:

But cheers. (:

[MsRose]

Harden? As in the stereotypical tattooed brute that inhabits a prison? What are you even saying? Of course rehabilitation isn't a completely, fundamentally assured process. Of course it has error, and of course an individual can feign change without actually possessing any. Change cannot be directed, and is the direct summation of an individuals experience. As such, automatically saying 'rehabilitation isn't completely successful, so y'know. No." is wrong. Rehabilitation in and of itself should be done on a completely reactive basis, not a proactive one where an individual can be 'rehabilitated' and then placed in a scenario to re-offend, as their previous crimes have already desensitized them to it. An individual who commits a crime for a more morally acceptable reason (Example: A man who finds his wife of decades cheating on him, and attacks the cheater, unintentionally resulting in death) Can obviously be rehabilitated, as their emotions were rational, their mere state of mind wasn't. An individual who commits violent crime against people for next to no reason (Example: A serial killer specifically targeting young children for the sake of gratification and sadism) can presumptively not be rehabilitated, or is unfit to. Much easier to simply kill the individual.

Yes, hardened. Meaning people who have been in and out of prison. Those who have become "hardened" or "cold" because they are desensitized. So, I'm not talking about people who act out of temporary insanity. Rehabilitation wouldn't include serial killers either, considering they would never be released anyways.

What is your stance on this topic anyways? You seem to just be quoting everyone to insult them, despite which side they are on.

[Justinnn]

Yes, hardened. Meaning people who have been in and out of prison. Those who have become "hardened" or "cold" because they are desensitized. So, I'm not talking about people who act out of temporary insanity. Rehabilitation wouldn't include serial killers either, considering they would never be released anyways.

What is your stance on this topic anyways? You seem to just be quoting everyone to insult them, despite which side they are on.

I already outlined my point of view. I am being rather Ad Hominem by implication, I suppose, but I would hardly say I'm simply insulting people.

My point of view is an individual's ability to be rehabilitated is an entirely subjective matter. When an individual commits a violent crime from a provoked spur of emotion, they're capable of rehabilitation. Otherwise, the efficient method of capital punishment (Not lethal injection) to the less than honorable violent offenders. Whilst an amoral alternative, it's also the most financially plausible, socially just method of dealing with criminals.

By the way, you keep speaking out upon minorities that don't address the central issue at all. More so, serial killers are often released with life sentences. And my post argued against the existence of imprisoning facilities, anyway.

[Derriere]

Back to the topic. Since there's already rehabilitation centers etc.
Main purpose for prison to me should be punishment.

[5MGEDOHC]

I think its punishment. Everything you do has a consequence be it good or bad. You get caught with a DUI you get a night in the county jail (im not sure how much for sure). You murder your family expect to be there for quite a while. So yeah I think the point is Punishment but rehabilitation can come from it i think.

[MiladyM]

Mostly punishment, but I doubt just punishing them without rehab will do any good.. so I guess you need to find an even balance.. depending on the crime ofcourse.

[angel412ster]

Punishment. Rehab is why we have psych wards and REHAB places. duh.
i kinda wish we had a better way to get rid of prisoners, they kinda clog up prisons

[BERRIES]

Maybe both? Or perhaps Reflection? Depends on every individual's view.