67 replies to this topic

[cara]

You keep going back on what you say. In this thread or the other, can't remember which you say you believe in A god not THE God. Which means you don't necissarily believe in the Christian God, which is what we're talking about in this case.

We're humainly debating.

Ah but doesn't Christianity have two gods?
Jesus Christ , son of god , yet god.
Then THE god.Father of god Jesus Christ.
I think Jesus is a saint and a very important one at that , but I don't see how there are two gods.
A god giving birth to a god.
Is not god the ultimite being that is stronger , fast and smarter then anyone or thing?
So then is Jesus the same?Is Jesus and his father equivilent in speed , inteligence or psysique?
If so , then god is not THE god , god is one of THE godS.
If not , then how is it that Jesus is a god?
-Unless of course there are different levles of gods ....

[Ives]

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
See also John 13:1, John 17:9, Ephesians 5:25, etc.

"Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." John 12:39,40.
See also John 10:11,26, Matthew 11:25,26, Acts 13:48, Romans 9:19-24, etc.

[Ives]

I'm not lauging. Okay, listen, your taking it to a complete new level. Everything I say to you, you take and apply it somewhere else. There is a difference between a lie detector and a pencil no? All I am getting from you is that moral law is an exception. You truly believe that?
Read the Bible, I don't have any more energy left towards you to answer the same question a second time. You were in that last debate I started, and asked the exact same questions, and I answered with about 4 paragraphs, but you completely blew it off. I'm tired of you not listening.
Okay, it says they do not 'accept' things from the spirit, of course they don't. I'm reffering to moral law and how the spirit condems those doing a bad act, that's where you get the "this is wrong" feeling from.
There isn't two gods, it's the trinity, look it up. God is Jesus, The holy spirit, and himself all in one.
The first quote, what does that have to do with what I am talking about?

John 13:1 - That is reffering to Jesus, not the holy spirit who dwells on the earth

Ephesians 5:25 - "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her." ??

The third one, again, it's reffering to direct contact between God and Man, not spirit and man.

I'll check the others later

Not much realevancy to anything, but I felt I needed to quote that little tidbit.

[Bora]

The first quote, what does that have to do with what I am talking about?

John 13:1 - That is reffering to Jesus, not the holy spirit who dwells on the earth

Ephesians 5:25 - "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her." ??

The third one, again, it's reffering to direct contact between God and Man, not spirit and man.

I'll check the others later

Now, this is where it gets kinda confusing.

God is supposed to be the trinity, also known as God, Son, and Spirit in one. Why it is like this I don't know, so having a connection between spirit and man is like between God and man.

Just decided I'd let you know that, I don't know much in-depth though. You could probably ask some evangelist if you got curious enough

[Ives]

It's supposed to be like Alias said. 3 beings connected to a gigantic superspirit called god.

[Tetiel]

What is especially confusing is when Jesus actually prayed to God which basically meant since he WAS God he was praying to himself. But ah, this is where it gets interesting. I believe that Jesus was basically God's spirit born into a man. And while Jesus of course knew this he needed to still pray. It is a way for man to communicate to God and while a part of God was in human form he needed to transmit things. Besides, Jesus was also meant to be an example to us. And if he did not pray than what kind of Christian or Jewish man would he really be?

Then there is the Holy Spirit which is in everything. It is in the waters, the doves, the fire, in all our hearts. It is omnipresent pretty much. The presence of God is in everything. And God is kinda the main force that makes everything happen.

I know this explaination is a tad confusing. I honestly have a hard time really understanding it myself. It is a hard concept to imagine especially with our culture always having to know how. But some things.. I think we are just supposed to know but not understand...

[Sakura]

What is especially confusing is when Jesus actually prayed to God which basically meant since he WAS God he was praying to himself. But ah, this is where it gets interesting. I believe that Jesus was basically God's spirit born into a man. And while Jesus of course knew this he needed to still pray. It is a way for man to communicate to God and while a part of God was in human form he needed to transmit things. Besides, Jesus was also meant to be an example to us. And if he did not pray than what kind of Christian or Jewish man would he really be?

Then there is the Holy Spirit which is in everything. It is in the waters, the doves, the fire, in all our hearts. It is omnipresent pretty much. The presence of God is in everything. And God is kinda the main force that makes everything happen.

I know this explaination is a tad confusing. I honestly have a hard time really understanding it myself. It is a hard concept to imagine especially with our culture always having to know how. But some things.. I think we are just supposed to know but not understand...

Actually, those are my beliefs exactly. Good job putting it into words.

[hunkychunkgoat]

I belive in god and all but I think evolution is more logical

[Bora]

More logical?

The Big Bang is about as likely as shaking up a box of Legos and hoping you can make a perfect house out of it.

As with evolution: Why are there still many apes, gorillas, and monkeys if we have evolved from them? And wouldn't we have evolved into something else by now as well, if the world was millions or billions of years old?

And the things with complexity--a flagella, a microscopic engine, probably one of the most efficient ones--wouldn't be made up just by sheer chance. Honestly, what are the odds of that happening?

You would think that with the complicated designs, there had to be some kind of greater force out there to make it.

Edited by Nythius, 20 February 2006 - 03:17 PM.

[Ives]

More logical?

The Big Bang is about as likely as shaking up a box of Legos and hoping you can make a perfect house out of it.

As with evolution: Why are there still many apes, gorillas, and monkeys if we have evolved from them? And wouldn't we have evolved into something else by now as well, if the world was millions or billions of years old?

And the things with complexity--a flagella, a microscopic engine, probably one of the most efficient ones--wouldn't be made up just by sheer chance. Honestly, what are the odds of that happening?

You would think that with the complicated designs, there had to be some kind of greater force out there to make it.

agreed, the big bang (I know my opinions are not constant as Im always searching) is a very strange theory. As for evolution - it is probable only a certain few had some form of odd mutation that happened to them. Besides that, we may not have even evolved off of monkeys, but a cousin of monkeys and apes. I'm not saying rule out god, im just saying, evolution is most likely a fact. So if theres a lucky 1% it isnt, come to my place and ill hand you a sick pack.

But please, provide more reason than "how could this happen by chance". I have heard this too many times to count.

And yea, pm them to me. because im probably not going to be using this section of the board anymore.

[Insanedragonz]

I said the creator created the step/progress for evolution. So basicly BOTH!

[Will]

As with evolution: Why are there still many apes, gorillas, and monkeys if we have evolved from them? And wouldn't we have evolved into something else by now as well, if the world was millions or billions of years old?

You apparently don't quite have the evolution concept down pat. Evolution doesn't say we came from modern monkeys, apes and gorillas. Evolution says that we (humans for most of us ) share a common ancestor with monkeys, apes and gorillas. And about your "why wouldn't we have evolved into something else by now?" stuff...umm we have. Have you not seen what early humans looked like. We've changed a ton since then.

[Will]

That's not evolution, that's technological advances, and moreover the affects of drugs etc. The easier the bad stuff is to get, the more we change, scary thought.

Yes that is evolution. We as a species have become more upright so as to allow us to use our hands as "hands" rather than feet. Your point is right but it's not what I was talking about.

[Frizzle]

Josh, we have evolved even in a couple of hundred years, back in the 1500's and 1600's the average height of a male was about 5'7.

We're growing taller, getting heavier and the like to adapt to our enviroment.

[Will]

Anyways, my point is hard to get across. I don't believe evolution to the fullest extent, yes we evolve, but we didn't come from microscopic organisms.

Why is that so hard to swallow? If in the past 100-200 years we've grown (as a species) like 3 inches. Imagine how much we could change in millions of years?

[Tetiel]

What I am getting at is that I don't really think that it's evolution that's exactly causing the effect, even though I somewhat believe in it (somewhat). It's common nature for a being to adapt to the current standards, and as are standards grow, we adapt. Why are we all getting fat? Mainly because (USA) has evolved into a fast food country. Don't take that personally, but it was just a comparison.

Anyways, my point is hard to get across. I don't believe evolution to the fullest extent, yes we evolve, but we didn't come from microscopic organisms.

You believe in adaption, yes? Well... okay. Basically the whole theories on evolution and especially natural selection are just adaption. Some creatures... take the elephant before the ice age had to adapt when it started becoming colder. Before you had two traits. You had the no haired elephant and you had the elephant with short hairs. When it got slightly colder it was not the no haired elephant who survived, but the short haired. Then eventually the creature adapted and started growing longer and longer hairs until after thousands of elephants with undesireble traits died out and only the ones with desireble traits lived... it became what we call the Wooly Mammoth. It became so different from the original in it's adaptations that it became a different species. Just like the wolf became a dog. All evolution is... is adaptation.

Now it is my belief that God causes evolution. He changes environments so at the same time He makes His creatures adapt too.

I do agree with you on the taller and heavier thing, though. I think that recently what it has been is diet. However I do believe as a species we are indeed changing. Our teeth are getting smaller because we do not need to chew our food as much because it is cooked, it is softer. So therefore... why would we have huge molars if we don't need to use them? And our jaws are getting smaller which would explain the large number of us who have to get our wisdom teeth removed. Evolution is happening all the time... but it is... truly just adaption. That's all it is.

[Ives]

Agreed with Casilla. Either one would be a building block between atheists/nontheists and theists.