184 replies to this topic

[Hydrogen]

Alias, I think it would be in your best interest to discontinue any harsh posts about religion. If you cant follow this simple guideline, then I would suggest remaining out of this debate.

[Sweeney]

Yup, you just proved my point even more. You don't know God as you would a believer, and therefor have a more limited view. Thus, the things you say mean nothing to me because your just the person on the outside watching.

No, see, because you opinion is based on no concrete evidence, and is therefore not subject to analysis.
An argument not subject to analysis really isn't a valid argument at all.

[Hydrogen]

I think you need to double check before warning me again, because my posts are nearly a quarter as bad as what some people have said. And what did I say that was so "harsh"?

Many times, in the heat of the moment, most people dont have a control on their words. I've thoroughly read this topic. I only verbally warn when I need to and I am asking you to please tone it down. Respect others' beliefs.

And if your pro creation and believe in abortion, we need to have a little talk

I'm perfectly sure why I am that way . The Qur'an says that only after 4 months of pregnancy is a soul actually placed into the fetus (this is the stage of pregnancy where scientists have found the baby kicks and all that). Therefore, abortion before this time is perfectly legal if there is just cause. Before this time, it is just flesh and no soul or baby. After this time however, if the mother is going to be harmed by having the baby, sometimes abortion is permitted as well.

It's really difficult for me to understand how religion and science conflict because that is really not a problem for me , I just kinda sit on the sidelines and laugh

Maybe I need to have a talk with you .

[Hydrogen]

Ah, never knew it said that. Well, I thought you sort of believed in the Bible as well. Anyways, in the Bible it clearly states several times that when a woman is pregnant she is "with child". She is not "with fetus" but with a real living child. It's easy to conclude that when a woman is pregnant, it's a human being all the way from when it started. Not to mention the Bible also states that if anyone should hurt a pregnant woman they should be punished, I think it said killed, I have to go look it up again.

I do believe in the Bible. It's one of the most important scriptures revealed to man in Islam. Jesus, or Isa, (peace be upon him), is an extremely important Prophet in Islam, and is due to return in the end times. Thats another story though. The difference is that I believe the Bible was sent down from God in Jesus' times. It was the actual words of God. But through the many translations and clarifications that man put in himself which were taken as part of the Bible rather than clarifications or commentary, I believe that the Bible we have today is not the same as the Bible the apostle's of Jesus had in their time.

Parts of the Bible may still be the words of God however. This is why dropping the Bible on the floor is a sin for a Muslim. Putting something on top of the Bible is a major form of disrespect. The same applies to the Torah.

By the way, I usually react negative when people offend my religion .. so mabye it's not just me? And mabye you do need to have a talk with me, although there's not much to talk about.

No one is offending your religion, we are all just stating our beliefs.

[Sweeney]

How do you know my evidence when you don't know the thing that I am talking about? That makes no sense. How can you go pick some random evidence up and say it's not concrete evidence without every knowing what the evidence was for?

Creation has no evidence other than the word of the bible.
The Big Bang has repeatable, observable and above all universally congruent evidence which people can see in their own homes, given the right equipment.

[Hydrogen]

Creation has no evidence other than the word of the bible.
The Big Bang has repeatable, observable and above all universally congruent evidence which people can see in their own homes, given the right equipment.

This is true...the static on your tv...thats 3% interference caused by the big bang

I can prove creation , but thats a story for another day

[Sweeney]

This is true...the static on your tv...thats 3% interference caused by the big bang

I can prove creation , but thats a story for another day

Yeah, I heard about your proof of God...
Sounds interesting.

[Sweeney]

You wouldn't know that because your not a christian.

Enlighten me.

[Ilya]

Same with being a jew...

[Sweeney]

Basically right now there is a metal door standing between you and God, and He is constantly knocking on it waiting for you to answer. Through this metal door you can't be forgiven and alot of other stuff. Basically, you can't judge God without actually accepting him into your life first. You have no idea what the huge difference is between a christian and a non-christian.

I meant about the evidence for Creation...

Same with being a jew...

What?

[Raui]

You have no idea what the huge difference is between a christian and a non-christian.

One belives nd one doesn't ?

If there is a god why cant he give us a sign of proof just like the bi bang has given us ? I just hope one day we find other inteligent life then there will be no more wars in the world

[Sweeney]

You wouldn't understand alot of my evidence without first experiencing christianity. Of all the things I say on this board, it's nearly a half of what I would say as a christian.

Why don't you try me?

[Hydrogen]

One belives nd one doesn't ?

If there is a god why cant he give us a sign of proof just like the bi bang has given us ? I just hope one day we find other inteligent life then there will be no more wars in the world

There are many signs...they are very clear signs...

[Ilya]

There are many signs...they are very clear signs...

True... people who dont belive in god say there are no signs... but if you really look closely there are alot of signs that good exist...

[Sweeney]

You wouldn't be able to relate to it. I would say stuff like "remember when you first got saved"..

So what you're saying is, your argument's validity is reliant on my already believing what you say, right?

[Hydrogen]

True... people who dont belive in god say there are no signs... but if you really look closely there are alot of signs that good exist...

I'll give you an example

The very fact that we can see is a proof of the existance of God. We can see because our eyes take up the light reflected off of objects which give them color. There are an infinity of different wavelengths that define light. From 10^-16 nm to 10⁴ nm, the wavelengths between these are infinite. But lets take each as one unit intervals. Therefore, there are 10²⁰ different types of light in the universe (gamma rays, x rays, ultraviolet, visible, infrared, radio). That is: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ... this is a number that we cant even fathom...Humans can only see around 300 different types of light under this single unit increment method. The chance of that happening just because is: 0.0000000000000000003



This is just an example. There are many more examples out there.

So what you're saying is, your argument's validity is reliant on my already believing what you say, right?

I dont believe unless I have proof behind my beliefs

This is the way I look at it...if you are atheist...well, you are halfway to Islam - Half of the testimony of faith is that there is no god...now you just need the rest that says There is no god but God.

[Hydrogen]

The earth rotates on its axis at one thousand miles an hour; if it turned at one hundred miles an hour, our days and nights would be ten times as long as now, and the hot sun would then burn up our vegetation during each long day, while in the long night any surviving sprout would freeze.

Again, the sun, source of our life, has a surface temperature of 12,000 degrees Fahrenheit, and our earth is, just far enough away so that this 'eternal fire" warms us just enough and not too much! If the sun gave off only one-half its present radiation, we would freeze, and if it gave half as much more, we would roast.

The slant of the earth, tilted at an angle of 23 degrees, gives us our seasons; if it had not been so tilted, vapours from the ocean would move north and south, piling up for us continents of ice. If our moon was, say, only 50 thousand miles away instead of its actual distance, our tides would be so enormous that twice a day all continents would be submerged; even the mountains would soon be eroded away.

If the crust of the earth had been only ten feet thicker, there would be no oxygen without which animal life must die. Had the ocean been a few feet deeper, carbon dioxide and oxygen would have been absorbed and no vegetable life could exist. Or if our atmosphere had been thinner, some of the meteors, now burned in space by the million every day would be striking all parts of the earth, starting fires everywhere.

Because of these, and host of other examples, there is not one chance in millions that life on our planet is an accident.

[Sweeney]

The earth rotates on its axis at one thousand miles an hour; if it turned at one hundred miles an hour, our days and nights would be ten times as long as now, and the hot sun would then burn up our vegetation during each long day, while in the long night any surviving sprout would freeze.

Again, the sun, source of our life, has a surface temperature of 12,000 degrees Fahrenheit, and our earth is, just far enough away so that this 'eternal fire" warms us just enough and not too much! If the sun gave off only one-half its present radiation, we would freeze, and if it gave half as much more, we would roast.

The slant of the earth, tilted at an angle of 23 degrees, gives us our seasons; if it had not been so tilted, vapours from the ocean would move north and south, piling up for us continents of ice. If our moon was, say, only 50 thousand miles away instead of its actual distance, our tides would be so enormous that twice a day all continents would be submerged; even the mountains would soon be eroded away.

If the crust of the earth had been only ten feet thicker, there would be no oxygen without which animal life must die. Had the ocean been a few feet deeper, carbon dioxide and oxygen would have been absorbed and no vegetable life could exist. Or if our atmosphere had been thinner, some of the meteors, now burned in space by the million every day would be striking all parts of the earth, starting fires everywhere.

Because of these, and host of other examples, there is not one chance in millions that life on our planet is an accident.

Your argument is redundant, since, had any of these things happened, there would be no life to observe it.

The reason we evolved is because the planet is perfect for us.
Were it different, we would be different. Or nonexistant, of course.
That does not mean that it had to be created for us.

[Bora]

Your argument is redundant, since, had any of these things happened, there would be no life to observe it.

The reason we evolved is because the planet is perfect for us.
Were it different, we would be different. Or nonexistant, of course.
That does not mean that it had to be created for us.

So you're saying humans have adjusted perfectly to the earth?

How is that so, if one thing is different, then how does the other adjust?

[CaptainPlanetT]

Your argument is redundant, since, had any of these things happened, there would be no life to observe it.

The reason we evolved is because the planet is perfect for us.
Were it different, we would be different. Or nonexistant, of course.
That does not mean that it had to be created for us.

If it is sooo perfect for us then why did we need to adjust?

[Sweeney]

Perhaps I ought to rephrase.
The reason we evolved, is so that we are perfect for the planet.

Better?

[Hydrogen]

do you believe that each human has a soul joe?

[snickpop]

....
Because of these, and host of other examples, there is not one chance in millions that life on our planet is an accident.

Okay, let's say that there is no chance that life on our planet is an accident. That still doesn't say anything about how life evolved. So what do we believe in? Christian god? Islamic god? Buddhist god? The Spagethi monster? Or do we just believe in some undefined greater force?

If life on earth is a million in one shot, then maybe there are 999,999 other places in other universes/time/space/etc where life didn't evolve. And we're just the lucky result of the millionth time.
(the number isn't important, it could be one in a million, one in 6 millions, one in 14 gazillions)

[Hydrogen]

Okay, let's say that there is no chance that life on our planet is an accident. That still doesn't say anything about how life evolved. So what do we believe in? Christian god? Islamic god? Buddhist god? The Spagethi monster? Or do we just believe in some undefined greater force?

If life on earth is a million in one shot, then maybe there are 999,999 other places in other universes/time/space/etc where life didn't evolve. And we're just the lucky result of the millionth time.
(the number isn't important, it could be one in a million, one in 6 millions, one in 14 gazillions)

For the record, the Christian God and the Islamic God are the same , and I dont think buddhists believe in god. Spagheti monster...hmm...

Do you believe then that we have a soul?

[snickpop]

For the record, the Christian God and the Islamic God are the same , and I dont think buddhists believe in god. Spagheti monster...hmm...

Okay, but which religion do I choose? I mean the bible and the Qur’an don't say the same things for example. How do I know I'm not pissing off god?

Do you believe then that we have a soul?

No, I don't believe we have a soul. We could call our self-conscience our soul, maybe. Kinda in the way that when we draw a heart for our sweetie we draw that red heart symbol, not a bloody mass of flesh.
I just watched that episode of the Simpsons where Bart sells his soul to Milhouse. I don't believe we have a soul like that. A soul that can be bought or sold or saved or goes to heaven when we die.