241 replies to this topic

[Ives]

should they be aloud to adopt???

Uhhh, yes? They should be able to adopt children. Of the two gay rights issues going on, adoption makes the least sense. Sure, by one definition, marriage is between a man and a woman. But adoption is just plain dumb to argue about. If anything, it would give the kid a more open minded enviroment rather than contamination.

Edited by Reeshu, 11 May 2006 - 06:15 AM.

[Eeyore]

I don't believe a child show grow up in an enviroment like that thinking that it's right for him to have two dads. I don't care what kind of child they bring up, no one should have to be forced to go through something like that. I would flip if I didn't have a mom.

But if they weren't adopted they wouldn't have either a dad or a mum, and surely a parental figure of some sort is far better than none at all? I'd far rather a child go to a gay couple ready to raise a child then stay on their own .

Four definitions of marriage are as follows:

the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union"
two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"
the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony; "their marriage was conducted in the chapel"
a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas"

None of those seem to mention between a man or a woman. If the term 'marriage' was actually said to mean specifically between a man and a woman I see no harm in having a different name for gay couples that want a similar relationship, it's no worse then giving them the name 'gay', whilst hetrosexuals have the name 'straight', simply a way to differentiate.

However, looking up the definitions only ever says 'most commonly between a man and a woman', so the definition of marriage evidently doesn't say in concrete that it has to be between one of either gender, thus gays should be allowed the name marriage.

I also completely agree with their rights to marry, if two straight people, one dressed as Elvis and the other Marylin Monroe, can stagger into some Las Vegas marriage chapel...thing and get married drunk after knowing eachother all of a week or something, then gays who are in a loving relationship should certainly be allowed the same thing, if it's something that they want to do it's certainly not fair to stop them. Or I mean, not in a loving relationship, two drunk Elvis's should be allowed to get married after a week of knowing one another too .

[Ives]

I don't believe a child show grow up in an enviroment like that thinking that it's right for him to have two dads. I don't care what kind of child they bring up, no one should have to be forced to go through something like that. I would flip if I didn't have a mom.

I thought you made the claim of moral law awareness?

Yeah, of course you would flip. So would I, honestly. I don't exactly think the idea of having two dads (unless ones a step dad and ones a biological dad from divorce) to be a nice thought, but thats because I grew up in a completely heterosexual enviroment. It's homosexual acts that are wrong [by the bible], not two gays getting together and adopting a kid.

'Tis America

Edited by Reeshu, 11 May 2006 - 05:32 PM.

[snickpop]

I don't believe a child show grow up in an enviroment like that thinking that it's right for him to have two dads. I don't care what kind of child they bring up, no one should have to be forced to go through something like that. I would flip if I didn't have a mom.

I don't have a personal vendetta against you or anything, but I think it would have benefitted you to have two dads. You don't appear to be very openminded. Less bible, more heart. A child that grows up with two dads would think it's the most normal thing in the world. He'd probably flip if he didn't have his two dads. "go through something like that", what you mean having two loving parents? Lots of kids go through things that are lots worse.

Oh yes, and for the topic.. I'm completely for gay marriage. Love is the higher law.

Edited by snickpop, 12 May 2006 - 01:02 PM.

[Hawk]

Oh yes, and for the topic.. I'm completely for gay marriage. Love is the higher law.

So I can murder a womans husband because I love her and want her?

[snickpop]

So I can murder a womans husband because I love her and want her?

Yes you can. Of course then you'll have to face the consequences of the other laws. I didn't say love was the only law. You can also cross the road even though there's a red light. That's a lesser law right? Of course it might seem like an important law when you get hit by a car and lose the use of your legs. But I digress. God loves cripples too.

[snickpop]

Define what you mean when you say open minded. I don't think you know what you're talking about, I think your just annoyed because I won't believe what you believe, which is really sad ROTFL

Well, I don't really care what you believe. But... good one! roftlmaotyn

And I take God's word as the highest law. So there's our difference, there is no point in arguing on the matter.

We really oughtna start discussing god no. I just wonder what god would say, that his law or love should the highest law...

Personally, I would be making fun of a kid if he had two fathers.

That's a typo, right? You mean that you wouldn't make fun of a kid that had two fathers, right? Otherwise... the whole openmindedness thing is a lock.

You don't have to have a son to mother, and son to father bondage, your forced with a son to father bondage. And what if the kid hates homosexuals? What kind of family would that bring up?

What are the odds that a kid raised by homosexual parents would hate homosexuals? And how many kids with both mother AND father still hates their parents? And what would god say about hating others for their sexuality?

Edited by snickpop, 12 May 2006 - 03:08 PM.

[Ives]

I'll just say this much: If there is a God of sorts, he probably made sexuality for a reason. I doubt he made it as an "obstacle" to overcome, or else there would be a hell of a lot more Ex - gays.

[Ives]

I already explained that. We made sex. It's in our sinful nature to lust for the flesh. God made many obstacles, that's how He test's you. A guy has a (..) so that he can fertilize the woman and create life, we abused this and created what men call "sex".

Yea, you explained the Christian belief, but all the others? No. Hence my point.

[Funnlecake]

im for it just becuase i know it pisses off the fundamentalists

[snickpop]

I already know that, when you talk you tend to really express it, might want to work on that, but I guess I shouldn't say that since you don't care huh?
God loves everyone enough to tell them not to go into the sin of homosexuality. I really don't know what you're talking about.
No, it wasn't a typo. Around here, you would get jumped everyday if you were in that kind of state. I was merely sharing the truth.
The odds? Well let's say he becomes christian. Let's say he did some research and didn't like the results. Let's say he get's put under alot of peer pressure. Alot of things can lead a kid to do something like that. And the kid wouldn't "hate" them, just dislike what they're doing.

Okay. I just really don't get how you can claim to be open minded and yet you still admit that you would tease a kid who had homosexual parents. Just because your surroundings may want to jump a kid does not mean you have to do it too. I don't think the bible says "love thy neighbour.. unless there's peer pressure. Then kick his ass". I hope for your sake that your god is a forgiving one.

[snickpop]

Oh please. You act like your so damn innocent and you wouldn't do anything bad in your life. Go worry about someone else's life please, I really don't want you talking about mine.

And yes I am open minded, sorry you don't want to accept it.

I'm not innocent and I have never claimed to be. I wouldn't make fun of a kid who had homosexual parents though. I guess I'm closed minded like that.

[cokiwah]

They're not really effecting us are they? I say let them do what they want...

[snickpop]

That's wonderful, then why do you care so much that I would?

Because you say you're open minded and you say that you believe in a god that's perfect. And I can't get those things to add up. It interests me. But don't mistake it for caring, I know that whatever I said to try and change your mind would only make you dig in your heels even more. I am not out to save your soul, I'm just curious.

[snickpop]

Do you know what kind of books I read? Tons upon tons of the most boring, most dry books on earth. I read books many famous scientists have wrote that basically discuss how this world got here, and how we came from the things we see. Keep in mind these have nothing to do with religion, just plain old science books. Tell me that's close minded. I have an extreme interest in other's beliefs, and am willing to put myself in their shoes. But when I do that, I see that it's a negative feeling, and it's wrong, so I respond to it. Yet you guys don't see that, and say I am only responding with my beliefs.

Doesn't really matter how many books you read. You could read all the books in the world. You make fun of a kid who has homosexual parents. What do you feel when you put yourself in that kid's shoes? I don't think I need to argue my case any further.

[snickpop]

Who said it mattered how many? It's the fact that I am opening my mind to other's views is what matters, don't try to change the subject please.

You can read a book and not understand it. The bible is the perfect example. People read it and use it to further their own agendas and excuse their own bigotry. Instead of understanding the meaning of it.

I'm not going to talk about this making fun of shit any more because all you do is act like a parent. You probably do the same shit everyday and here you are trying to give advice. Does that even make sense? How about you go become perfect, then come back and tell me the things I am doing wrong.

I don't need to be perfect to tell you what you're doing wrong. I have many, many flaws. Most likely bigger flaws than you'll ever get close to having. And yet, it's very easy for me to say what you're doing wrong. You make fun of kids with homosexual parents.
You know the annoying thing about parents? They usually know a lot more than you do. It's called experience. If kids listened to their parents more the world would be a better place. Heck, just listen to your heavenly father a little more.

Edited by snickpop, 13 May 2006 - 10:43 AM.

[snickpop]

Yes you can read a book and not understand it. What's your point? It doesn't mean everybook I read I don't understand. Why are you getting so offtopic here? I brought up reading books as showing that i'm not close minded. The fact that I bought and even read the first page of the book shows that I have an interest in other things I may not agree with.

My point is that reading books doesn't automatically make you open minded. It's fine that you read books, it'll make you smarter. You're the one who brought up reading books, it really has nothing to do with the topic or being open minded.

And I said i'm going to stop talking about this making fun of thing. You're sitting here telling me it's wrong, i'm saying "okay I don't need you to tell me that". Where exactly is this going? Nowhere. So why don't you just do the smart thing and stop.

It's going to "teasing a kid for having homosexual parents is not open minded". It's supposed to make you think about that and maybe realize that it's not open minded. Kind of like when you read the bible and it says "be kind to your neighbour" and you learn from that.
You can just stop any time you want, no one is forcing you to reply to my posts.

Edited by snickpop, 13 May 2006 - 11:43 AM.

[snickpop]

For the third time now, what do you mean when you say open minded? If it's not researching on other's beliefs, always looking for other possibilites, then what is it? You seem to have a different definition here.

I mean making fun of homosexuals for example. That is not open minded. Thinking they don't deserve to get married. That's not open minded. You can research someone's belief all you want, that doesn't necessarily mean that your mind is open to it. If you look for other possibilities but you just reject them then your mind is not open.

And I still don't see how teasing a kid is close minded. I guess your close minded too then eh? Which means you have no room to talk right?

lololololllololol ever the funny one! winkwinknudgenudge

Edited by snickpop, 13 May 2006 - 12:00 PM.

[Frizzle]

Erm just because he doesn't believe in the bible doesn't mean he is closed minded, if can see from your perspective and accept your beliefs then that's not exactly close minded.

Doesn't the bible state, Love thy neighbour? So by teasing a kid with gay parents, you're disobeying the bible, something you're so strongly with...

And you guys need to chill, do you seriously think either of your opinons matter to each other, if you can't handle a debate in a mature way, don't come in here.

And try and get back on topics.

My opinon on the matters been said, I agree with Civil unions, since getting married in the house of the lord is a bit stupid since the bible does state homosexual activies are wrong...

[snickpop]

So your saying because I don't agree that homosexuals getting married is right, i'm not open minded? So, because you don't believe the Bible, your close minded okay? So now we're both close minded. Cool.

I'm saying that using the bible as an excuse for bigotry is closed minded. And not something god would be happy with.

Edited by snickpop, 13 May 2006 - 12:32 PM.

[Tetiel]

Wow... I love how you guys both just ignore Frizzle...

EDIT: Nevermind Alias just edited

[jillian]

Actually, the bible states sodomy is wrong... the verse which says "man shall not lie with man" was originally translated from "sodomy" which means any number of things... (bestiality, oral sex, anal sex between any genders, fornication, prostitution)

at any rate, the fact of the matter is that America is not a Christian state (yet, Bush) so it should not have to conform to every belief of one of the many religions which are housed in it... it's not fair to every single person who lives in America, because not everyone's a Christian. This isn't even a Christian ISSUE when you think about it, becuase marriage isn't necessarily a Christian tradition - civilizations everywhere have marriage.

I think gay people should be allowed to marry under law at any time, and they can move it into a specific church and have a ceremony there if that church is okay with it... law can't say anyhting about a church refusing a marriage. For the most part, getting married in a church isn't a goal - it's getting the rights that a monogamous couple in america should have, regardless of sex.

[snickpop]

And I'm saying that science is a bad excuse for proving the Bible wrong. I'm not close minded, face it.

Okay. But you didn't address what I said. Using the bible as an excuse for bigotry is closed minded. Do you agree?

I have a question though. How can we have beliefs, if everyone who had one is close minded? My belief says that homosexuality is wrong, that instantly makes me close minded. Doesn't that go for the same as everyone else? Or am I just special? LOL

You can believe that homosexuality is wrong. That's your belief. Teasing a kid who has homosexual parents, that's bigotry.

(Tetiel)
Wow... I love how you guys both just ignore Frizzle...

I feel that I'm having a mature debate, on my side at least. And so what if our opinions don't matter to each other? They obviously matter enough for us to keep talking. This topic is pretty much dead anyway, so what is the harm that it's offshooting a little? If the mods feel that it's wrong then they can close it. This is a debate about gay marriage, I think religion and bigotry and beliefs are quite relevant. It's more interesting than having 20 people say "I think gay marriage is ok".

[Tetiel]

Basically Snick... he was basically saying the two of you need to cool off.. the thing is it's obvious you guys aren't going to change each other's minds..

[snickpop]

Basically Snick... he was basically saying the two of you need to cool off.. the thing is it's obvious you guys aren't going to change each other's minds..

I'm extremely cool. I think Alias has a tendency to take things way too personally. But as long as there's something to talk about then I'll keep talking. Unless a mod directly says to stop or closes the subject. I know I'm not going to change Alias's opinion, but I think I have the right to state mine and to keep doing it and I don't think I've been out of line so far. Basically, as long as we're being civilized then I don't think there's any need for a mod to interfere. Debate is healthy.

Edited by snickpop, 13 May 2006 - 12:56 PM.