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Science or Religion?


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#1 Melchoire

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:06 PM

It's the age old question, science or religion, church or labratory, faith or discovery etc...

Do you believe that:
A. Religion provides all answers
B. Science is far more credible
C. Science and Religion are 2 ways of looking at the same thing
?

Obviously both sides have their negatives: religion gives us a meaning in life with a reward or punishment but some people find it hard to believe, where as science defines humans as insignificant speck in the universe that will cease to exist after death. Unlike most devout Muslims I try to keep an open mind about things. But one of the problems with science is that the theories often have limits and religion has a superior being with limitless power(God). So I guess I would choose C and I think science and religion are 2 ways of looking at the same thing. Religion give everyone the answers and science wants to prove it's theories before publicising it. smile.gif

What do you think?

Edited by xėnon, 22 August 2006 - 03:08 PM.


#2 Hydrogen

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:06 PM

I dont understand why science and religion have to conflict. They dont conflict for me blink.gif...my religion has no problems with science. Its hard for me to relate on why this is such a huge issue...

#3 Melchoire

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:10 PM

QUOTE(Hydrogen @ Aug 22 2006, 03:06 PM) View Post

I dont understand why science and religion have to conflict. They dont conflict for me blink.gif...my religion has no problems with science. Its hard for me to relate on why this is such a huge issue...


Take the terrorists for example, most of them defy science and claim that it "incurs the wrath God" and alot of Muslims in the middle east have the same idea. sad.gif

Edited by xėnon, 22 August 2006 - 03:13 PM.


#4 Hydrogen

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE(xėnon @ Aug 22 2006, 03:10 PM) View Post
Take the terrorists for example, most of them defy science and claim that it "incurs the wrath God" and alot of Muslims in the middle east have the same idea. sad.gif
How can that be so when the Qur'an discusses science itself. Though not a book of science, the Qur'an discusses many topics such as the big bang, embryology, astrophysics, etc.

Science is knowledge and all types of knowledge are to be strived for is what Islam teaches.

#5 Funnlecake

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE
I dont understand why science and religion have to conflict.


same for me, althought i think that the new should replace the old.

any xėnon you shouldnt look at it as being a capcon fight or something. also science always isnt intresting to some people. There just both ways of explaining things, anyway in this case the new replacing the old.

#6 Melchoire

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE(Funnlecake @ Aug 22 2006, 03:20 PM) View Post

same for me, althought i think that the new should replace the old.

any xėnon you shouldnt look at it as being a capcon fight or something. also science always isnt intresting to some people. There just both ways of explaining things, anyway in this case the new replacing the old.

I don't see it as a fight or anything. I'm just saying that some parts of science are wrong and immoral, like abortion and stuff. I don't believe they conflict with each other, they're 2 ways of looking at the same thing and they should subside in peace. smile.gif

#7 Ives

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 03:44 PM

In the physical world, we try to find answers through science. That's fine. In the spiritual world, we try to find answers through God. So I believe in the mixture of science and religion. I believe that God created everything spiritually at first, than created the physical universe that we live in today. I view the physical universe as a mean of schooling for the soul, and that when you die, you are granted eternal bliss if your mistakes (or, as some call them, "sin") are outweighed by what you did. I guess the "More than one way to heaven" concept is pretty looked down upon, but that's just my take on it. I don't think a Native American who never heard of a one God scenario, but lived a good life would be banished to hell. I'd like to think it depends on what you do, mainly what everyone does, which is love.

#8 Hydrogen

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE(Athean @ Aug 23 2006, 04:44 PM) View Post
In the physical world, we try to find answers through science. That's fine. In the spiritual world, we try to find answers through God. So I believe in the mixture of science and religion. I believe that God created everything spiritually at first, than created the physical universe that we live in today. I view the physical universe as a mean of schooling for the soul, and that when you die, you are granted eternal bliss if your mistakes (or, as some call them, "sin") are outweighed by what you did. I guess the "More than one way to heaven" concept is pretty looked down upon, but that's just my take on it. I don't think a Native American who never heard of a one God scenario, but lived a good life would be banished to hell. I'd like to think it depends on what you do, mainly what everyone does, which is love.
I agree. And so does Islam tongue.gif.


#9 xZel

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:26 AM

I for one would have to go with B. I feel that science is what explains life and the universe and religion is something that humans created for Morals and the nature to need to know how things work and exist. Science is only the latter part of that. I think in todays socity you need some mix of both. You should have something to believe inand guide you in your choices but also in a sense really know what is happening in life.

#10 Mitch

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:15 PM

QUOTE(xZel @ Aug 24 2006, 09:26 AM) View Post

I for one would have to go with B. I feel that science is what explains life and the universe and religion is something that humans created for Morals and the nature to need to know how things work and exist. Science is only the latter part of that. I think in todays socity you need some mix of both. You should have something to believe inand guide you in your choices but also in a sense really know what is happening in life.


So your telling me that we where all created by a big 'bang'. Psh when a stick of dinamite (sp?) blows up I don't see some little ant or anything being made from it kay?

#11 Hydrogen

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:24 PM

QUOTE(Mitch @ Aug 28 2006, 07:15 PM) View Post

So your telling me that we where all created by a big 'bang'. Psh when a stick of dinamite (sp?) blows up I don't see some little ant or anything being made from it kay?
Well it is the opinion held in consensus with the biggest scientists in the world...I dont know how anyone can argue with that blink.gif...especially when they themselves arent a scientist.

#12 pyke

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:17 PM

Aren't a lot of the worlds most brilliant scientists really religious? tongue.gif

#13 Hydrogen

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:19 PM

QUOTE(pyke @ Aug 28 2006, 07:17 PM) View Post
Aren't a lot of the worlds most brilliant scientists really religious? tongue.gif
Yep tongue.gif. Physicists especially. They say that when you go far in depths into physics, it actually proves the existance of God. Now that is cool tongue.gif.


#14 Sean

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:22 PM

QUOTE(Mitch @ Aug 28 2006, 07:15 PM) View Post

So your telling me that we where all created by a big 'bang'. Psh when a stick of dinamite (sp?) blows up I don't see some little ant or anything being made from it kay?

Well, considering how tiny we are conmpared to the entire universe, how do you know that a tiny little universe isn't formed with that explosion? Well, there no way you could because it's so small.

#15 Tetiel

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 10:54 PM

Both. I believe science is how God did things.

#16 MrSensitive

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 11:11 PM

Science, something that God made too?

I mean for religions, especially Christianity. It's about faith.Faith is believing in what you cannot see.

When the scientist say..Mother Nature does wonderful things. Doesn't that seem to make Mother Nature into a sentient being? What is Mother Nature was God?

For all we know, scientist has made many theories through the ages. But somehow later in time, they always get corrected by the "right" theory. Even then, its still called a theory and theories are..

[quote]noun: a tentative hypothesis about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena[quote]

Best part is, theories are theories because they are believed by the general public.

But for the Bible, it's always been the same through the ages.

#17 Ives

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 01:31 PM

You can't argue with the Big Bang theory. The only argument you can really suggest is how the matter got there, which alone (along with other reasons) justifies my belief that there is a spiritual being or an intelligent being pulling the strings. Do I have science to vefiy this? No. But does it mean I'm totally stupid? Nah. The bible, Qur'an, and Torah ALL have a possibility of the big bang as well, though only the Qur'an specifically says that the big bang happened without having to intepret it.

Of course, if scientists prove atheism right, then I will gladly accept their scientific logic behind it. But I'm not going to deny the possibility or my belief in the existence of a higher power or intelligent creator until that day comes forth.

Edited by Athean, 29 August 2006 - 01:33 PM.


#18 xZel

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:21 PM

QUOTE(Mitch @ Aug 28 2006, 09:15 PM) View Post

So your telling me that we where all created by a big 'bang'. Psh when a stick of dinamite (sp?) blows up I don't see some little ant or anything being made from it kay?

You do not understand the big bang theory then. It is that a great ball of matter exploded and sent matter flying though out space, creating the univirse. It has nothing to do with dynamite or little ants. It is place ment.

And we were not created by the big bang. Since you don't know a theory before discrediting it i will continue. After the big bang there is two major possibiltys (sp) called evolution or inteligent design.

And IMO intelligent design is just away for religion to still be right after priests and those people saw that evolution had some sense in it.

#19 Hawk

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE(AliasXNeo @ Aug 30 2006, 08:20 AM) View Post

2. The Bible was here WAY before anyone thought of evolution.

Yeah, the first thoughts of evolution came from Charles Darwin (I think xD) in the 19th Century. Even then it was mainly micro-evolution/natural selection- Which we know is true. I dont think he deals with Macro-evolution at all.

Alright 19th Century was the first ideas of evolution.
It is estimated that Revelation, 1st John, 2nd John, and 3rd John were all written in the early 90s, Ive seen no mention of the 100s from the sites I have visited, so there is only about 1700 years between xD.

Edited by hawk117, 30 August 2006 - 08:48 AM.


#20 Ives

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:10 AM

Where did he say "People thought of evolution before the bible"?

#21 /Max

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:41 AM

The theory that the world was flat came before the theory that the world was round, too! So of course, number one is true.

#22 Hydrogen

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE(hawk117 @ Aug 30 2006, 08:47 AM) View Post

Yeah, the first thoughts of evolution came from Charles Darwin (I think xD) in the 19th Century. Even then it was mainly micro-evolution/natural selection- Which we know is true. I dont think he deals with Macro-evolution at all.

Alright 19th Century was the first ideas of evolution.
It is estimated that Revelation, 1st John, 2nd John, and 3rd John were all written in the early 90s, Ive seen no mention of the 100s from the sites I have visited, so there is only about 1700 years between xD.
Actually, a lot of people wrongly credit the idea of evolution to Charles Darwin. the talk of evolution was going on a lot at that time and Darwin was only one of the researches in the field. He came up with the theory of natural selection, only one way to describe how evolution works. There are other theories such as sexual selection and more. Charles Darwin didnt invent the idea of evolution, just did some research to support its claims smile.gif.

And Alias, it was in fact, an explosion, as is held by scientists around the world.

Athean is right that the Qur'an discusses the big bang explicitly in the 7th century AD, a time where there was little to no scientific knowledge. Only in the 21st century were we able to come up with such a theory. Something that the Qur'an discussed 1400 years ago.

QUOTE(Tetiel @ Aug 28 2006, 10:54 PM) View Post

Both. I believe science is how God did things.
I havent seen it put in a better or more concise way before. smile.gif


#23 Hydrogen

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:57 PM

QUOTE(AliasXNeo @ Aug 30 2006, 02:52 PM) View Post

Not what my science teacher and related articles told me. Have documentation on this?
Yeah I do blink.gif
QUOTE(http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm)
About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point.
QUOTE(http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html)
According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.
Got them from a university website and NASA unsure.gif

Personally, I'd trust university research and NASA over a high school science teacher blink.gif.

#24 Guest_Casilla_*

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:02 PM

Explosion is a popular misconception, and is often used to describe it to the general public, because the actual explanation is a lot more complex than that and people stop listening halfway through.

It wasn't an explosion. It's an expansion.


Oh, and here's NASA saying so:

QUOTE
The Big Bang was not an explosion as the name suggests. The name "Big Bang" originated as sarcastic description by a scientific critic. It's somewhat unfortunate that this name stuck, since it is misleading. Try not to imagine a bunch of flaming debris whizzing out into the surrounding space. There couldn't be any debris because there was no such thing as matter – just energy. Later, as the universe cooled, some energy became matter.



http://science.hq.na...ience/bang.html


We certainly don't have PROOF of an explosion, at any rate. =P

#25 Melchoire

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 07:34 PM

This is cool, some scientists believe that the all the energy of the big bang was done by God who has infinite power. smile.gif I think I saw it on wiki I'll get a better source.


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