264 replies to this topic

[Hawk]

You do know that almost every scientific theory on the planet is a guess, right?
A well considered, carefully researched guess, but a guess nontheless.
Every "fact" in science is part of a theory, which is a guess at a version of reality that is yet to be disproven.

I think the quote needed a bit more emphasis to sink in to Speakers head.

[nox]

Dude. We all know that there's no way to prove that there's a God. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't believe in God. People can believe whatever they damn well want.

I'm an atheist, but I will defend to the death a person's right to religion.

woowwaaweewa! big post .

I'm only gonna quote a little bit, because it's all I want to discuss.

I am all for people having a religion, as i've said COUNTLESS times. I just don't think that the views of the church should interfere with things in society. Mixing them creates arguments such as this, questioning if god is real or not. Let's make a possible situation.

person A:Homosexuality is unnatural, it says so in the bible. Gay marrige should be banned.
person B:But the bible is a load of bullshit! I don't believe in god, what ever happened to seperation between church&state?

It's not fair to mix the two.

[Hawk]

what ever happened to seperation between church&state?

You brought that up earlier too... That was to avoid the Pope running the country, not like what is going on now.

[nox]

You brought that up earlier too... That was to avoid the Pope running the country, not like what is going on now.

Well, yeah. That is one reason, but it is to keep religion completely out of laws. It's just as bad as the Pope running the country, if we are creating laws based on what is in the bible.

[Sweeney]

The bible was a lawbook...
Why shouldn't new laws be based off the old?

[nox]

The lawbook for a different country.

[Sweeney]

How is that relevant?

[Hawk]

The lawbook for a different country.

The lawbook which should still apply, or do you think murder is good?

How is that relevant?

CUZ DIFRNET PPL NEDE DIFFRNT LAWZ.

[Sweeney]

Hawk, don't get silly, now
Keep it sensible, please.

[Hawk]

Hawk, don't get silly, now
Keep it sensible, please.

[Sweeney]

I don't write in Notepad. O.o It was all written in the post!

-wonders why I didn't notice-
Ah well Never mind...

There's plenty of proof. I'll give you one, this universe. Ever seen pictures of the millions of galaxies that have billions of stars in them?

Hardly classifies as a proof. It's just that you interpret it as evidence.

[nox]

The lawbook which should still apply, or do you think murder is good?
CUZ DIFRNET PPL NEDE DIFFRNT LAWZ.

ol y dunt we juz use law frum kuba lolz y it matr i meencountyry onlyu buiklt on compltyl difrnt strndurds lol

[Sweeney]

ol y dunt we juz use law frum kuba lolz y it matr i meencountyry onlyu buiklt on compltyl difrnt strndurds lol

Ugh, I don't expect to have to discourage stupidity twice on the same page.
Reign in your tempers, or face the consequences. Mk?

Besides which, we're not talking about Cuba, are we?

How do you prove something? You gather evidence correct? Well, that's some evidence. Because the universe is so vast, it's possible for a superior being to have created it.

Because the requirements of life are so harsh, and fit like a perfect puzzle, there is a possibility that it was designed to by that way by a superior being.

Just because you choose to specfically not take it as evidence doesn't disqualify it from anything. Can I go up to the CEO's of the company's that produce our science books and tell them I won't accept the stuff they put for proof of the big bang in there, and have it removed?

All I'm saying is that the universe provides a lot of evidence, for a lot of things. Evidence for the proof of a God, however, is a touchy issue, because it's more interpretive than intuitive.

[nox]

he said with sarcasm "different people need different laws"

compredo monsieur?

[Sweeney]

he said with sarcasm "different people need different laws"

compredo monsieur?

I saw that, and I told him to stop being stupid.
Seeing that, you should have ignored it.

Leave it now, ok?

Oh well, it's not going away is it? It's a possibility, just like the Big Bang, some people justify the evidence between the two differently, but all in all, it's there, and it's not going away.

All I am saying is you can not say that there is no evidence for a superior being.

Well, you can say that, because the evidence isn't quantitative, or verifiable... so really, it's just as much a matter of belief as the higher being itself.

[nox]

I saw that, and I told him to stop being stupid.
Seeing that, you should have ignored it.

Leave it now, ok?

i actually didn't see your post until after i posted.

[Sweeney]

i actually didn't see your post until after i posted.

Ok, no worries, it's all settled now

[nox]

i think the argument is over.

[Ives]

People are inclined to disagree, but this is how i look at it.

There are certain traditions in each country that should be maintained. For example, Saudi Arabias home for Muslims and Arabs has kept history as it is, with locations such as Mecca and Medina. In America, the tradition is that there isn't a tradition. In the United States, there shouldn't be any laws based on religious belief, or laws against harmless things (such as homosexuality.) Even though it's such a small percentage of the population, there should be no limit if they aren't harming anybody. I'm not referring to simple irritable harm like "Merry Christmas," but harm such as attacking an innocent being and physically damaging them.

[Sweeney]

Ok, lets look at it this way.
Mathematics is the only concrete thing that exists in the world, because we invented it, and we define how it works. It is an absolute.
One plus one always equals two.

Thus anything that can be reduced down to a mathematical "proof", or explanation, at the very least, is a far more reliable hypothesis than anything else.

The Big Bang theory has some very complex mathematics to back it up. I don't claim to fully understand all of it, but it is there, and I can trust in that, because I know it works.
Using the Universe as proof of a higher being though, cannot be reduced down to a mathematical conclusion drawn from a set of reliable observations... thus, the two cannot be placed on the same level...

[Hydrogen]

Why not? Can we prove that the Big Bang happened? No. Can we prove that a superior being made the world? No. People go so far up the list, mentioning all these equations, and basically meaningless stuff, trying to avoid the obvious. Neither can be proved, and that's how I base them. You cannot deny it, unless you can prove the Big Bang, then yes, in some sense they are equal, and that's what I look at. I have no need to look at all the mathmatics, because somewhere along the line it's going to end up pointing to the same conclusion that it cannot be proved.

Making a case against the big bang would be kinda stupid considering how many years of research and support it has...in essence, we did prove that the big bang happened by reversing the process all the way up to the actual event.

And yes we can prove the existance of a higher being. The proofs are very clear for those who reflect.

[Ives]

Then go find it, Alias. =P A textbook doesn't always prove things. Science is ALWAYS in development.

Edited by Athean, 01 September 2006 - 05:48 PM.

[Hydrogen]

That's what I said. I can't find it.

Just cuz you cant find it doesnt mean it isnt there. Thats being naiive tbh. Search harder. If others have found it, then its obviously there mate .

May I also add that high school textbooks are hardly scientific material. So please dont base your scientific discussions on what you have read in your high school textbook .

Textbooks have evolution in them. But you dont believe in evolution. Condtradiction? Dont put so much emphasis on what you read in your high school textbook mate .

[Melchoire]

Im pretty sure the big bang hasn't been proven I heard somewhere that the explosion sent matter shooting nearly at the speed of light so you won't be able to find any traces of the big bang unless you have a telescope that can look at the end of the universe it's hard to prove it.