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Science or Religion?


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#201 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 03:57 PM) View Post
Because monkey's do not have spirits. If a monkey dies it does not go to heaven or hell. Am I smarter than a monkey? Well you would have to define "smarter." I would hope I am smarter than one though tongue.gif


Thats funny, I thought god created all beings as equal or am I missing something ?

Also you refer to god being a he, god made everyone equal what makes you think god is male over the thought of god being female ?

#202 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 04:05 PM) View Post
Yeah you're missing something. In Genesis it clearly states that God gave man dominion over the beasts of the Earth.


Well thats rather bais isn't it ?

QUOTE
I wouldn't know exactly where it says it, or if it says it at all, but I do know that it never mentions animals in fact having spirits, and in the Bible an animal is never equal to a man.


Perhaps you should remember we aren't special...we are animals too. Your an animal, I'm an animal, the person who replies next is an animal.

#203 Freddy

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:15 PM

Raui invised my post?
What fors?

#204 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 04:14 PM) View Post
In a biological sense we are animals, yes, but what makes us human is our soul. And no it's not biased, God made animals to serve man, that's the way it has always been and will always be.


Whats a mosquito for ? Giving us malaria, that's a great way to serve us...

#205 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 04:20 PM) View Post
You're asking the wrong person. You don't really expect me to know the reason God created every single animal do you? The point is God created animals to serve us, that's all there is to it. They are not equal to us in any way.


No I don't, however what makes god man ?? If god exists there MUST be another animal who knows something about it or worships it. If your correct then animals should in a way be worshipping us. Thats not true. What about climate change ? Bring on the co2 !! If animals were made to serve us why do beavers block off dams ?

By the way freddy, I didn't invis your post.

#206 Melchoire

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:32 PM

Damn, I was at work and I missed all this healthy debate. Too much to go over and argue >_<

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 24 2007, 10:20 PM) View Post
You're asking the wrong person. You don't really expect me to know the reason God created every single animal do you? The point is God created animals to serve us, that's all there is to it. They are not equal to us in any way.

I like to believe heaven is like a whole other "unimaginable" universe where there's enough room for animals not just humans smile.gif


Oh by the way I thought some of you might find this interesting. If you read around some of the similar topics it says that during some experiments when two particles collided with one another the collision created more particles that weren't there before. So just goes to show something can be created from nothing. wink.gif

#207 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:37 PM

Why is it that every other animal co-exists in our enviroment but not us then ? Its as if we are not from here.

#208 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:42 PM

What do souls enable us to do thats so special ?

#209 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:50 PM

By the way David, the particle accelerator is a great example of it but where did the particles in the big bang originate from ?

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 04:45 PM) View Post
It gives us morals, it enables us to be forgiven, it enables us to goto Heaven, the list goes on.


My dog done a shit inside today, I forgave it. Animals don't really do much wrong to even need to be forgiven.

#210 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:54 PM

You sadi a soul enables us to be forgiven.

#211 Melchoire

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE(Raui @ Aug 24 2007, 10:50 PM) View Post
By the way David, the particle accelerator is a great example of it but where did the particles in the big bang originate from ?

Well like I said something can come from nothing so it's possible that a great intelligent "force" created those particles.

#212 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 10:58 PM

Your saying a soul enables us to be forgiven, I'm saying my dog is an animal yet I was able to forgive her. Also what does an animal do that is so bad it needs to be forgiven by the lord ?

#213 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:05 PM

Yes I know how incredibly hard it is to explain to somebody who doesn't know the basics of christianity, however I'm thinking logically here. What sins does an animal do that need replenising ? Its not like they sayd 'Oh bark the lord'. (No that wasn't ment to offend anyone I am purely giving an example).

#214 Melchoire

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:08 PM

Just incase you guys forgot, neither science nor religion can disproved. All you guys can do if find common ground.

#215 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE(FlashGM @ Aug 25 2007, 05:08 PM) View Post
Just incase you guys forgot, neither science nor religion can disproved. All you guys can do if find common ground.


Actually I'm using this as a way to get to learn more about religion. By asking the questions I think go against religion and hearing Josh's responces I am ultimately learning.


QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 05:09 PM) View Post
An animal does not have a soul and therefor has no morals and therefor cannot sin.


Has Bin Larden sinned ?

#216 Melchoire

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 24 2007, 11:09 PM) View Post
An animal does not have a soul and therefor has no morals and therefor cannot sin.
This has already been discussed. Believe it or not there people like me who use science with my studies. I don't aim to disprove science, because it's the very tool I use to help a lot of my research.

I didn't say you were trying to disprove it; but the two of you are arguing elements of the two sides (a soul)

#217 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 05:16 PM) View Post
It's not right of me to judge others, it's between him and God. My personal opinion would be yes he has sinned.


He doesn't worship god though ? Infact he's much against god. To his religion he's done the right thing.

#218 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:23 PM

That's to your belifs though, why must you insist your right ? So I've commited the ultimate sin then ? Does that make me a bad person by your beilfs ?

#219 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:34 PM

If its his belif then why should he be punished for that ? Perhaps the only reason chistianity has such big support is that the main religion in alot of powerful countries is Christianity, what if a religion such as Taoisim or Muslim was researched further into by countries with larger ammounts of money. We might see that there is a turn in the tables ? A sinner is a bad person though, are they not ?

#220 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE(Josh @ Aug 25 2007, 05:36 PM) View Post
He would be punished because he was a sinner. He committed the ultimate sin of denying Jesus and could not be forgiven. You can't start going into this "what if" stuff, it's the last thing you should ever bring into a debate, therefor I will not answer it.


Aha, I deny Jesus so I cannot be forgiven ? That makes you more of a person than me ? Why won't you answer it ? Is it because you are afraid of what it might bring up ?

#221 nox

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE(Raui @ Aug 25 2007, 02:38 AM) View Post
Aha, I deny Jesus so I cannot be forgiven ? That makes you more of a person than me ? Why won't you answer it ? Is it because you are afraid of what it might bring up ?

he chose not to answer it because it is an ignorant hypothetical question, how should he know what the outcome of that would be?

#222 Raui

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:49 PM

Religion is a big what if. You may say 'No its not there is proof'. Why is there more proof of the big bang than religion. Although I do see your point in that.

In that case I'll see you in hell wink.gif I do believe there was once a jesus I don't believe he had magical powers and theres a more logical explianation, its just that nobody knows what exactly yet. I do have my theories except thats all they are, theories. Much the same as religion is a theory of how we came to be.

#223 Raui

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 12:00 AM

If god was all powerful then he would make every easy to understand. One other quick thing, when you think of 'god' do you think of a being or some sort of force. I do believe that some unknown force did create the universe. I just don't believe a being did. Also if god created everything how was he created himself ? Thats something no bible or new testement can tell you with actual 'proof'.

Don't ask me why I said that because I honestly don't know wink.gif

#224 Raui

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 12:11 AM

Everything starts somewhere. Eariler on you mentioned something about humans being superior to any other life from. I'd just like to know how you'd react if an alien civilization came and landed on earth. Its not a what if question I'm just asking for a point of view.

Also I am really enjoying this debate smile.gif

#225 Raui

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 12:18 AM

That maybe true. I cannot say everything started somewhere, because I don't know everything. However nor do you, so how can you possibly say the oppisite to what I'm saying. I'm glad you can admit to that. I feel much the same way if there was a new jesus who came to earth I would be a believer.


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