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If we came from monkeys...


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#1 Cript

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 03:50 PM

Why are there still monkeys??

Why aren't they evolving??

Why aren't we still evolving??


Note: Don't confuse evolution with adaptation.

#2 Tetiel

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:11 PM

We DIDN'T come from monkeys that's why.

#3 Waser Lave

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:13 PM

Exactly what Alias said. tongue.gif

Humans and monkeys will still be evolving but we've only been around for such a short amount of time that it's barely noticeable, give it another couple of millennia (if we last that long) and we'll see. biggrin.gif

We come from the same biological family as monkeys (chimps, gorillas etc) but not from actual monkeys.

Edited by Laser Wave, 05 June 2007 - 04:20 PM.


#4 Charmender

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:16 PM

QUOTE(Cript @ Jun 5 2007, 11:50 PM) View Post
Why are there still monkeys??

Why aren't they evolving??

Why aren't we still evolving??
Note: Don't confuse evolution with adaptation.


We didnt come from monkeys per se, but according to science monkeys are our closest relation, genetically speaking, if we could speed up evolution by a million times in a lab, i think you would find that monkeys would evolve to a near human like state, as they are already at the stage of using tools.

#5 travis

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:21 PM

QUOTE(Tetiel @ Jun 5 2007, 04:11 PM) View Post
We DIDN'T come from monkeys that's why.


Die.

#6 Tetiel

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:23 PM

QUOTE(Terror Travisâ„¢ @ Jun 5 2007, 07:21 PM) View Post
Die.

Excuse me? We didn't come from monkeys. Learn some anthropology before you insult me.

#7 travis

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:29 PM

Nope, too stupid to learn.

#8 Hawk

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:32 PM

Yup, we came from monkeys...
And I believe Herman Munster was the missing link wink.gif

#9 Charmender

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(Kitsune @ Jun 6 2007, 12:53 AM) View Post
The reason WE don't evolve is because we don't have natural selection anymore. Our ability to develop technology to deal with any weakness we have means we will never have natural selection which means that genes get passed on to the next generation.



Thats been a thought of mine for a long time, humans no longer have to fight for survival so even the weakest are living and reproducing, and with all the medical advances, alot of people whould would have died along time ago are now living long lives and producing offspring, mankinds greatest achivement willl eventually becmoe our biggest downfall.

#10 Ives

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 05:30 PM

We didn't come from monkeys. We divided from a common ancestor into two completely different primates. Not to mention monkeys are more evolved than us.

#11 Cript

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 05:52 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

You obviously won't change my mind and I won't try to change yours. I was just looking for the evolutionist point of view on my questions.

Appreciate the help!

#12 Ender

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 06:09 PM

QUOTE(Kitsune @ Jun 5 2007, 08:53 PM) View Post
Yes there was a fork in the evolution, as has been said apes went one way 'humans' went another.
The reason WE don't evolve is because we don't have natural selection anymore. Our ability to develop technology to deal with any weakness we have means we will never have natural selection which means that genes get passed on to the next generation.
The only natural selection I can foresee is a higher resistance to a pandemic illness.
In terms of selecting a mate, wel there's no limits there either because the most ugly, boring, stupid, and any other feature that prevents people from finding a partner, can simply go to a sperm bank (are there egg banks??) or adopt. Reproduction isn't limited by the person with the best genes going on to have children while others don't.

We also care for people with physical and mental retardation, this doesn't happen in the animal word generally. Thousands of years ago, that rarely happened in humans - the child would be left to die if it was physically disabled (this is in most civilizations), or would later die because of not being able to hunt or fight back against an animal due to either form of retardation.

That's (in basic terms) why we no longer evolve.

Apes don't evolve anymore because it takes such a long time and only certain conditions allow for evolution, (and even more specific conditions to separate one species into two). There needs to be a raipid environmental shift which effects the lives of the species greatly for evolution to occur through natural selection. Only those with the genes that can adapt and live in the 'new' environment will survive to pass on their genes.

For example in a famine, (I don't have an example for apes but I can use birds), well in a famine, a bird species will be in an area. The bird's way of getting food is by using it's beak to stab bugs through holes. In a famine, those with longer, narrower beaks will survive because they can get in the smaller holes and reach in further. Over time the birds that don't have this gene will die from lack of food and the ones with the long narrow beaks will survive to pass on their genes and therefore after a few generations there will only be long narrow beaks.

For a species to split, a group of the species needs to be separated geographically over a long period of time. So a species might travel somewhere, an earthquake happens and there's no way of getting back. They are then separated. Over a huge amount of time natural selection occurs for that specific environment and eventually the two groups can no longer reproduce even if the geographical barrier no long existed.

Very helpful post.

Travis, warned. Don't do it again.

#13 Cataliste

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE(Kitsune @ Jun 5 2007, 07:53 PM) View Post
Yes there was a fork in the evolution, as has been said apes went one way 'humans' went another.
The reason WE don't evolve is because we don't have natural selection anymore. Our ability to develop technology to deal with any weakness we have means we will never have natural selection which means that genes get passed on to the next generation.
The only natural selection I can foresee is a higher resistance to a pandemic illness.
In terms of selecting a mate, wel there's no limits there either because the most ugly, boring, stupid, and any other feature that prevents people from finding a partner, can simply go to a sperm bank (are there egg banks??) or adopt. Reproduction isn't limited by the person with the best genes going on to have children while others don't.

We also care for people with physical and mental retardation, this doesn't happen in the animal word generally. Thousands of years ago, that rarely happened in humans - the child would be left to die if it was physically disabled (this is in most civilizations), or would later die because of not being able to hunt or fight back against an animal due to either form of retardation.

That's (in basic terms) why we no longer evolve.

Apes don't evolve anymore because it takes such a long time and only certain conditions allow for evolution, (and even more specific conditions to separate one species into two). There needs to be a raipid environmental shift which effects the lives of the species greatly for evolution to occur through natural selection. Only those with the genes that can adapt and live in the 'new' environment will survive to pass on their genes.

For example in a famine, (I don't have an example for apes but I can use birds), well in a famine, a bird species will be in an area. The bird's way of getting food is by using it's beak to stab bugs through holes. In a famine, those with longer, narrower beaks will survive because they can get in the smaller holes and reach in further. Over time the birds that don't have this gene will die from lack of food and the ones with the long narrow beaks will survive to pass on their genes and therefore after a few generations there will only be long narrow beaks.

For a species to split, a group of the species needs to be separated geographically over a long period of time. So a species might travel somewhere, an earthquake happens and there's no way of getting back. They are then separated. Over a huge amount of time natural selection occurs for that specific environment and eventually the two groups can no longer reproduce even if the geographical barrier no long existed.


Props. I hate you less.

#14 LastI

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 06:39 PM

What I find most amusing, of anything, is not that WE came from monkeys, I dont beleive we did, I believe God uniquely created us for a special purpose. And if you all believe in evolution, then how does something come from nothing, how were the monkeys formed? How did human life come from nothing. Something cant come from nothing, thats the answer. We were created by God.

#15 Cataliste

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE(LastI @ Jun 5 2007, 09:39 PM) View Post
What I find most amusing, of anything, is not that WE came from monkeys, I dont beleive we did, I believe God uniquely created us for a special purpose. And if you all believe in evolution, then how does something come from nothing, how were the monkeys formed? How did human life come from nothing. Something cant come from nothing, thats the answer. We were created by God.

Is God something?

#16 fruglemonkey

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 10:45 PM

Yeah, we didn't come from monkies...

And monkies ARE evolving... Like all species are... They're just taking time...

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't adaption what causes evolution? Adaptions over time makes a different species...

And something didn't come from nothing. (in the biological sense) Amino acids formed, and where floating around in liquid oceans. Some of these created proteins, which then created dna, and some dna adapted protective functions to expand their life, (like a mitochondria and such), and became cells. After a while, these cells started to develop some photosynthesis, and after a quite a while, VERY simple structures like algae and seaweeds start to pop up. Finally, cells start to join up in a co-operating way, and create multicelled organisms, the first of which were sponges. After sponges, came simple jellyfish, and other aquatic lifeforms. A flatworm comes, and so do anthropods and trilobites. As you can see, we were NOT created from nothing.

That explanation is probably not 100% accurate. Meh.

Oh, and humans aren't evolving, because we now 'evolve' via technology. E.G We had a need for global communication, so the telephone was 'adapted'.

#17 Alex

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE(LastI @ Jun 5 2007, 07:39 PM) View Post
What I find most amusing, of anything, is not that WE came from monkeys, I dont beleive we did, I believe God uniquely created us for a special purpose. And if you all believe in evolution, then how does something come from nothing, how were the monkeys formed? How did human life come from nothing. Something cant come from nothing, thats the answer. We were created by God.

This isn't even a debate about God. There can still be evolution and God. They aren't mutually exclusive. Cells were formed and eventually they evolved into organisms which eventually evolved into monkeys... your first sentence doesn't even make sense dude.

"What I find most amusing, of anything, is not that WE came from monkeys, I dont beleive we did, I believe God uniquely created us for a special purpose."
What is it you find most amusing then?

God created us for a special purpose...get real. I believe in God but I don't believe in crazy stuff like this. One look at modern society should make a person feel depressed , if that person feels modern society has a "special purpose" then that person is living in a dream world.

And we came from a common ancestor so that explains why there are monkeys.

#18 Kimoflea

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE(Cript @ Jun 6 2007, 12:50 AM) View Post
Why are there still monkeys??

Why aren't they evolving??

Why aren't we still evolving??
Note: Don't confuse evolution with adaptation.


:: You've got the fact wrong.. We didn't evolve from monkeys, we shared a common ancestor. It possibly looked like Mick Jagger.
:: Anything that is still here is successful. Monkeys are here because they have adapted and survived. They are still evolving, everything is. But how can you expect to see something that happens over millions of years? And adaptation is part of the whole evolution dealio, so you can't just dismiss it :blink:
:: We are still evolving. But we have found ways to overcome natural selection with medicine, technology, and a social conscience, so we are responsible for our own evolution. But one day, the earth conditions will change (be it global warming, global cooling, or godzilla) and we'll adapt and evolve.







#19 Charmender

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 06:30 AM

Didnt we evolve from bacteria though, which was on earth when the atmosphere started cooling?

Also the big bang theory is out, http://www.space.com...e_010413-1.html for the win

#20 Charmender

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 06:49 AM

I dont think humans will ever understand how the universe was created, for all we know, we could be a programmers wildest creation, not a human programmer btw, like an alien race who has techonology billions of years in advance to us. i dont think its possible to understand something on such a large scale, like how the stuff was there before ect.

#21 Kimoflea

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:52 AM

Still, even if we are never meant to know the answer, it's easier to believe in evolution than some higher being making us out of clay xD

#22 LastI

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE(Cody @ Jun 6 2007, 06:44 AM) View Post
How did god come from nothing? He just always was... right? Kind of like the original matter that spawned the original universe... wink.gif


God has always been and will always be, it's hard for me to understand, aswell as the rest of people, we'll never truely understand this as humans, God has always benn there.

What amuses me the most is that the big bang theory has been disproved many times supossibly and that people still believe it.

There has to be something that started this all - particles cant come together and form somehing such as a planet with no particlse to begin with, aswell as the fact that if there were particles, what are the chances that one planet would form, and how much less of a chance would it that THE WHOLE UNIVERSE formed by a chance. Even if all this would be wrong...How were humans created then with living, breathing life. Life is special, there is no real answer to how humans formed from scientists, human life cant come from nothing, and neither can planets, galaxies, starts, and the most important thing - human life.

God created humans to be unique in their own way, with their own personalities, looks, feelings, and bodies, and your attempting to tell me all this happened by a chance? No, it was the work of God.

#23 Zim_666

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE(LastI @ Jun 6 2007, 11:00 AM) View Post
God has always been and will always be, it's hard for me to understand, aswell as the rest of people, we'll never truely understand this as humans, God has always benn there.


If god has always been there why would it be so impossible to understand that cells have too?

QUOTE
Even if all this would be wrong...How were humans created then with living, breathing life. Life is special, there is no real answer to how humans formed from scientists, human life cant come from nothing, and neither can planets, galaxies, starts, and the most important thing - human life.

You said human life here twice. Lol.


QUOTE
God created humans to be unique in their own way, with their own personalities, looks, feelings, and bodies, and your attempting to tell me all this happened by a chance? No, it was the work of God.

If this was true then why would there be genes? There would. But there are.


I really don't understand why the question, "how did it all start" is so important. If it is figured out then how much different would today be? What would the human race 'get' out of the answer?

#24 LastI

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE(Zim_666 @ Jun 6 2007, 11:39 AM) View Post
If god has always been there why would it be so impossible to understand that cells have too?


You said human life here twice. Lol.




If this was true then why would there be genes? There would. But there are.


I really don't understand why the question, "how did it all start" is so important. If it is figured out then how much different would today be? What would the human race 'get' out of the answer?


A. I said human life twice for a reason - to prove my point.

B. You're just proving my point for me, although partially, genes determine physical things such as apperances and sometimes, disease. But genes dont determine who a person is, there is 0 doubt in my mind that God knew before we were born what we were going to have in our life, what our struggles are, and our whole life story. Even though genes may be taken into account for things (Listed above and such), God still makes people unique, its very hard to explain, I'm doing my best.

It does matter how it all started, because from that point on, it changes your whole philosophy at life, if you think you're here by a mistake or a chance, you don't care to much about your life, or atleast not as much if you would if you were a Christian. Christians such as me live their life to Glorify God.

If creation was proved, then the whole Christian faith would be considered by all people to be true and the facts to be genuine. (Which all facts in the Bible are known to be true, if you read the book 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel, you'll see that there are no contradictions, like many people accuse the Bible of having. The most intresting fact about the Bible is that off the thousands and thousands of prophecies, there's not one that has been proven false, yes some are still to be proven, and this is the major difference between Christianity and other religions, other religion's "holy books" combined only have 1 PROPHECY. And thats in the Muslim Koran where I believe it's prophecied that muhammad will travel to mecca or something like that, which is basically the equivelant of someone saying "i'll drop a pencil and it'll land on the ground" shifty.gif

#25 Zim_666

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE(LastI @ Jun 6 2007, 01:03 PM) View Post
A. I said human life twice for a reason - to prove my point.

B. You're just proving my point for me, although partially, genes determine physical things such as apperances and sometimes, disease. But genes dont determine who a person is, there is 0 doubt in my mind that God knew before we were born what we were going to have in our life, what our struggles are, and our whole life story. Even though genes may be taken into account for things (Listed above and such), God still makes people unique, its very hard to explain, I'm doing my best.

It does matter how it all started, because from that point on, it changes your whole philosophy at life, if you think you're here by a mistake or a chance, you don't care to much about your life, or atleast not as much if you would if you were a Christian. Christians such as me live their life to Glorify God.

If creation was proved, then the whole Christian faith would be considered by all people to be true and the facts to be genuine. (Which all facts in the Bible are known to be true, if you read the book 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel, you'll see that there are no contradictions, like many people accuse the Bible of having. The most intresting fact about the Bible is that off the thousands and thousands of prophecies, there's not one that has been proven false, yes some are still to be proven, and this is the major difference between Christianity and other religions, other religion's "holy books" combined only have 1 PROPHECY. And thats in the Muslim Koran where I believe it's prophecied that muhammad will travel to mecca or something like that, which is basically the equivelant of someone saying "i'll drop a pencil and it'll land on the ground" shifty.gif


I got more of a redundant feel from reading human life twice in a list wink.gif

Wouldn't personality derive from environment? As to adapt and fit in with 'the pack'? I didn't prove your point. I made a different point if anything.

I don't see how, if there was some huge bang millions trillions w/e amount of years ago it would change me having this conversation with you. Or if god just pasted together the earth however many years ago, we would still be living the same way.
Nawimsayin?

If god is all knowing and all loving; then why would he smite Onan for not getting his sister-in-law preggers? (genensis)
And in Leviticus it is a sin to have sexed your brothers wife.

ohmy.gif

I'm done, I don't want to start flaming.
Zim-


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