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how do you feel about government?


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#1 phalkon

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:45 PM

i'm taking federal government this semester and it's really interesting stuff (although america). our last assignment (though not really related) was to go to the websites of the republican party, democratic party, and another party of our choosing (i chose the nihilist national party) and answer questions about each...

ANYWAY.

i'm not sure how it is anywhere else, but you don't even *need* to work that hard to get your name on a voting ballot. you realize it only cost Ralph Nader $5000 to get his name on the ballots of 22 states? (gasp!) also, there's always the issue of a write-in candidate (which is what the NNP leader did during 1988 run against daddy Bush. (most recently though, he ran for governor of California, pushing the secession of California from the USA as the main issue. he didn't win obviously, but he has gotten a surprisingly high amount of write-in votes.

discuss, throw your ideas... whatever.

how do you feel about government?

#2 RandomNameIgnoreIt

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:49 PM

As far as what you specifically mentioned.... I don't think it's that easy to get on the ballot. It may or may not cost much. I think you need to get a rather large number of signatures (in the 10s of thousands, maybe?) to get on the ballot so it's not like joe-nobody can do it.

And government on the whole? Uh... it's good? I suppose you could say my political ideology is authoritarian (economically liberal, socially conservative), which is unfortunately not a real party, lol. So in general I believe government is good. Thing is, you need good people to run it. A government is only as good as those we have run it.

However I will always take the stance that the strategy of a normal amount of government or more government will be better than less government, except in areas where common sense dictates otherwise (the feds shouldn't control your local fire station).

#3 Blind

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:09 PM

Shouldn't this be in Debate?

I'm not into the Government right now because I'm only 15 and i don't give a shit till i can vote. biggrin.gif

#4 phalkon

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE(Blind @ Sep 17 2007, 07:09 PM)  
Shouldn't this be in Debate?


ooops, you might be right. i guess if an admin deems it to be so it will get moved tongue.gif


well you say you don't give a shit about government because you aren't able to vote? what would you do if you could vote? or would you push to have another lower voting age? (the change too 18 years old took a constitutional amendment!)

Amendment 26 - Voting Age Set to 18 Years. Ratified 7/1/1971. History

1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.



#5 Nick

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:49 PM

America's democratic system is disgusting. Candidates start campaigning over a year before the election, spending millions and millions of dollars just to look good and put on a show so that everyone will elect them. It's disgusting.

I give props to the UK on their election system in which people only campaign a few weeks before the election (correct me if I'm wrong) and spend far less money.

#6 foogie

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:37 AM

the majority will take care of me. smile.gif


lol

I'm an ignorant voter... I don't really listen to what they have to say, I just vote for who I think will win... in my mind, voting for someone who obviously isn't going to win is just like throwing your vote away. 1we8.gif I'm an odd one I guess.

but all of western canada is conservative, so I just go with the flow.

#7 SuperTridentMachine

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE(foogie @ Sep 18 2007, 10:37 AM)  
the majority will take care of me. smile.gif


lol

I'm an ignorant voter... I don't really listen to what they have to say, I just vote for who I think will win... in my mind, voting for someone who obviously isn't going to win is just like throwing your vote away. 1we8.gif I'm an odd one I guess.

but all of western canada is conservative, so I just go with the flow.

Please never ever procreate

#8 Sweeney

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 10:18 PM)  
Please never ever procreate

For someone so apparently opposed to political apathy, you didn't exactly espouse your own opinion...

Unless you were just going for cheap laughs, of course.

#9 SuperTridentMachine

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE(Sunscorch @ Sep 18 2007, 01:21 PM)  
For someone so apparently opposed to political apathy, you didn't exactly espouse your own opinion...

Unless you were just going for cheap laughs, of course.


I have no idea what the original topic was nor do i care all i read was that which was linked to me by a friend

Given that the statement was made by a Canadian that makes me scared for the future of my country

#10 Sweeney

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 10:24 PM)  
I have no idea what the original topic was nor do i care all i read was that which was linked to me by a friend

Given that the statement was made by a Canadian that makes me scared for the future of my country

I don't think you can justify that her political opinion, or lack thereof, should deny her the ability to have children, nor should her viewpoint give you the right to insult her for holding it.
Why should the opinion of one individual scare you? I suspect that there are equal numbers of apathetic voters on the side of any major political party.

#11 Tetiel

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:34 PM

I think though that it is the responsibility of the voter to know the subjects before they vote. If they are not informed on the issues or the politician's stance on it they should NOT vote. The problem is there's a whole lot of people who do this and it's especially the younger generation I find and well... it's not good.

#12 Ives

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:38 PM

It's pretty difficult to get on the ballot, but its not horribly hard, at least if you're a third party canidate. Michael Badnarik got in 47 states with only about a million bucks towards his campaign, but Ross Perot on the other hand could only get 50 after spending something like a billion dollars from his fortune amassed from his business career. So if your a third party canidate, your in luck. Independent or "fourth party" (the smallest of third parties), your screwed.

Anyways, what DO I feel about the government? I feel it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyy tooooo big, and although the states does pretty well for its economic freedom, continuing policies of the New Deal and Keynesian philosophy (which was originally to get out of a depression) past the Great depression and world war was killer to the idea of freedom in a much finer, purer form. Even Keynes, before his death, worried such would happen and that people would keep the idea of big government simply because politicians are greedy bastards.

But I'm optimistic. With people like Vaclav Klaus coming into the worlds light following the legacy of the likes of Milton Friedman and the Austrian school of economics, I believe we'll be able to return to our original ethic within 50 years or so.

Edited by Athean, 18 September 2007 - 01:43 PM.


#13 SuperTridentMachine

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE(Sunscorch @ Sep 18 2007, 01:30 PM)  
I don't think you can justify that her political opinion, or lack thereof, should deny her the ability to have children, nor should her viewpoint give you the right to insult her for holding it.
Why should the opinion of one individual scare you? I suspect that there are equal numbers of apathetic voters on the side of any major political party.


The thought of her procreating and then passing on these values to the next generation is what scares me could you not even follow that simple train of thought?

#14 Sweeney

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 10:41 PM)  
The thought of her procreating and then passing on these values to the next generation is what scares me could you not even follow that simple train of thought?

Indeed, I can follow your train of thought. Mostly because it's a mindlessly simple overreaction, with little relevance to reality.
Again, I ask; what do you think gives you the right to flat out insult someone because of a differing political view?

#15 SuperTridentMachine

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE(Sunscorch @ Sep 18 2007, 01:50 PM)  
Indeed, I can follow your train of thought. Mostly because it's a mindlessly simple overreaction, with little relevance to reality.
Again, I ask; what do you think gives you the right to flat out insult someone because of a differing political view?

If you can honestly not see why that particular view of voting in general deserves to be insulted you also should refrain from spreading your seed good sir

#16 foogie

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:58 PM

oohh!! I've started a spurring political debate! smile1.gif


I don't just blindly leap into these things, and NO I do NOT vote regularily.

I do know; however, the conservative views are more favorable for the economy of western Canada, so I'm swayed that way. and look at that! Canada has a conservative leader guy now, am I right? don't remember his name, but i voted for him, first and only time I've ever voted.... merely because i feel Liberals don't give a shit about western Canada.

#17 Ives

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 02:41 PM)  
The thought of her procreating and then passing on these values to the next generation is what scares me could you not even follow that simple train of thought?


Political amotivation doesn't nessecarily equal amotivation in the next generation. Canadian politics have gotten pathetic, so its an understanding why some of them might not be genuinely interested. It's a problem with a lot of the people, and to blame her as an individual because Canadians treat their leaders like abusive boyfriends they alternate between is missing the point.

#18 Sweeney

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 10:55 PM)  
If you can honestly not see why that particular view of voting in general deserves to be insulted you also should refrain from spreading your seed good sir

Don't you dare try to patronise me.
No view deserves to be insulted, simply because you disagree with it.

#19 Ives

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE(SuperTridentMachine @ Sep 18 2007, 02:55 PM)  
If you can honestly not see why that particular view of voting in general deserves to be insulted you also should refrain from spreading your seed good sir


It's a problem that needs to be solved, not insulted.

#20 otherworld

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 10:55 AM

Governmen here is messed up in the UK. We have so many immigrants coming into this country who claim loads of benefits. his then makes them voe for labour (our current government who are allowing all these immigrants). So his cycle keeps going round that they let more in they get more votes. Its going to result in British people being the minority.

Therefore I think immigrants should not be able to vote. Harsh but the only way to stop his happening.

And when it comes to people voting just for whoever you think would win, I really wish you wouldnt do it. I mean seriously it reduces the chance of any change o he government as people vote for the last elected government.

#21 Sky

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 12:28 PM

George Bush GGPWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone thinks hes bad but Nikov said he was good so I believed him.

#22 phalkon

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE(Sky @ Sep 19 2007, 02:28 PM)  
George Bush GGPWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone thinks hes bad but Nikov said he was good so I believed him.


y'know, GW isn't really "bad", he's just way too easily controlled by the rest of his party/cabinet.

and yeah, the fact that he's a moron doesn't help either sad.gif

#23 Ives

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 04:47 PM

QUOTE(otherworld @ Sep 19 2007, 11:55 AM)  
Governmen here is messed up in the UK. We have so many immigrants coming into this country who claim loads of benefits. his then makes them voe for labour (our current government who are allowing all these immigrants). So his cycle keeps going round that they let more in they get more votes. Its going to result in British people being the minority.

Therefore I think immigrants should not be able to vote. Harsh but the only way to stop his happening.

And when it comes to people voting just for whoever you think would win, I really wish you wouldnt do it. I mean seriously it reduces the chance of any change o he government as people vote for the last elected government.


The immigrants reaping in the benefits of the sorta welfare state you suggest is due to the fact you're stuck in a welfare state to begin with. If you just remove that, the immigrants would still come in, however, but theyd have a better ethic.

#24 Noitidart

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 09:46 AM

I think governments are crucial. I would like more of todays governments to focus on internal affairs though. Sure charity is good but more focus on self is neeeded.

#25 phalkon

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 03:43 PM

America just needs to stop being the world's police.

i think Trent Reznor said it best in "Capital G"

QUOTE
I'm sick of hearing about the have's and the have not's
Have some personal accountability
The biggest problem with the way that we've been doing things is
The more we let you have the less that I'll be keeping for me



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